UPDATE! — CGC nefarious behavior! Any advice/help would be appreciated. 6 6

[Cat]

On 11/4/2023 at 1:04 PM, VintageComics said:

Well, from my perspective this sounds like it's a win, win for everyone.

Ghostzapper gets made whole, and everyone including he, CGC and the audience all learn valuable lessons. The lesson is more valuable than the comic, right?

Hopefully they don't come down too hard on the employee who lost the book.

Awesome stuff! 🤟

 

 

Are you ing kidding? 

Edited November 4, 2023 by Cat

[VintageComics]

On 11/3/2023 at 11:13 PM, mattn792 said:

I hope you’re being facetious.

I should have said short of finding the book.

Obviously finding the book would have been best.

You disagree?

CGC could have told him he didn't ship the book and he was SOL. Would that have been better?

 

[VintageComics]

On 11/3/2023 at 11:30 PM, Cat said:

Are you ing kidding? 

Never with you. 😉

[Nick Furious]

On 11/3/2023 at 8:14 PM, DougC said:

they are likely not going to give you a penny over any declared

Seems to me that Declared Value would be the only appropriate payout.  Anything more than this would set a bad precedent and encourage people to under-value their declarations.  

[VintageComics]

On 11/4/2023 at 12:11 AM, Nick Furious said:

Seems to me that Declared Value would be the only appropriate payout.  Anything more than this would set a bad precedent and encourage people to under-value their declarations.  

My understanding has always been that the entire point of the declared value is for insurance purposes for both CGC and for the submitter should anything go wrong.

How else would anyone determine the value of a missing item?

[speedcake]

I'm sorry, but CGC losing/destroying a 4k (potentially much higher) book and only after causing the submitter unnecessary stress/heartache and literally being dragged over the coals here on the forums over it did they finally do what was necessary to get to the bottom of things, and now possibly can only offer cash as compensation for this ridiculous situation, and loss of a true gem of a magazine, is in no way, shape or form "win win."

 

[Bumble Kitty]

On 11/3/2023 at 9:43 PM, speedcake said:

I'm sorry, but CGC losing/destroying a 4k (potentially much higher) book and only after causing the submitter unnecessary stress/heartache and literally being dragged over the coals here on the forums over it did they finally do what was necessary to get to the bottom of things, and now possibly can only offer cash as compensation for this ridiculous situation, and loss of a true gem of a magazine, is in no way, shape or form "win win."

 

I agree.

For the submitter, I think it is a "push".  For the hobby as a whole, it is a "loss".  Darn, it was a nice book.

[Nick Furious]

I doubt this is a systemic issue, but what I take away is that one should not separate the paperwork when submitting from 2 or more tiers.  When the receiving folks find one submission slip in a box, they should find all of them together.  If the two submission slips had been together, they would have found the magazine.  I'm not blaming the submitter, just saying that keeping the paperwork together would be a safer way to go now that this has come to light.   

[Lightning55]

On 11/4/2023 at 12:38 AM, VintageComics said:

My understanding has always been that the entire point of the declared value is for insurance purposes for both CGC and for the submitter should anything go wrong.

How else would anyone determine the value of a missing item?

The Declared Value is the most CGC will pay. The DV is only the submitters opinion of value, no substantiation, a number on a form. If CGC determines that the Fair Market Value is lower, they can pay that amount. If it is deemed to be higher than the DV, they will pay the DV.

They pay the lower of the DV and FMV, according to their terms. 

How they will argue the condition/grade of a raw comic they never saw and dumpstered, is anyone's guess.

Edited November 4, 2023 by Lightning55

[Ghostzapper]

On 11/4/2023 at 1:03 AM, Nick Furious said:

I doubt this is a systemic issue, but what I take away is that one should not separate the paperwork when submitting from 2 or more tiers.  When the receiving folks find one submission slip in a box, they should find all of them together.  If the two submission slips had been together, they would have found the magazine.  I'm not blaming the submitter, just saying that keeping the paperwork together would be a safer way to go now that this has come to light.   

I wrote outside the cardboard, 1 magazine on that sub and 2 comics outside that cardboard. How it was missed and discarded is anyone’s guess. I didn’t view the video, so I’ll never know. I understand your statement and it was 3 items total. If I was opening packages regardless of time constraints anything flat would’ve examined. I’m very thorough. That is why I was in great panic knowing I sent in 3 items and being told maybe I forgot to add the magazine.

What if there was no one available like CGC Mike, no video or the help of this chat board members. How can I know for sure if this is the whole truth? At first I was told video was viewed and there was No magazine and questioned if I sent it in. Upon more investigation they came to another conclusion, I’ll never know what it was. Believe me I’m still upset this happened but also like Roy mentioned be Thankful there was some resolution. I’ll see how things proceed. Thanks again!

[wombat]

Now imagine you didn't have CGC Mike on your side. Its insane that he has to personally solves so many problems when probably 99% of people who submit books don't know he exists. 

[DougC]

Paying someone money for destroying their personal property doesn't make things "right" it is legally the bare minimum acceptable outcome.

This is just my opinion but at any point when CGC is at fault for destruction/loss of someones property they should also offer additional compensation for lying about it and blaming the customer, the loss of intrinsic value of the item: the book can be replaced but it isn't the same book nor will it ever have the same connection to the owner, and time/suffering explicitly caused by CGC to the owner throughout the entire process (which isn't over yet, "claims" is going to drag/argue against paying him).

I am not talking about additional thousands of dollars but there is a marketable even point that CGC could balance to at least show they know they ed up and are actually trying to make amends for their actions.

It is to bad @CGC Mike doesn't work in Sarasota we could all chip in and send him a Christmas present for the work he does on forums to keep CGC's reputation treading water.

 

[Cat]

On 11/4/2023 at 4:38 PM, DougC said:

Paying someone money for destroying their personal property doesn't make things "right" it is legally the bare minimum acceptable outcome.

This is just my opinion but at any point when CGC is at fault for destruction/loss of someones property they should also offer additional compensation for lying about it and blaming the customer, the loss of intrinsic value of the item: the book can be replaced but it isn't the same book nor will it ever have the same connection to the owner, and time/suffering explicitly caused by CGC to the owner throughout the entire process (which isn't over yet, "claims" is going to drag/argue against paying him).

I am not talking about additional thousands of dollars but there is a marketable even point that CGC could balance to at least show they know they ed up and are actually trying to make amends for their actions.

It is to bad @CGC Mike doesn't work in Sarasota we could all chip in and send him a Christmas present for the work he does on forums to keep CGC's reputation treading water.

 

No offence to Mike, but we shouldn't have to reward him for displaying the bare minimum* of competence one should expect from the company.

 

*Yes, Mike goes above and beyond for us, but he's put in positions he shouldn't be in in the first place, had CGC done their jobs to the bare minimum in the first place. 

[shadroch]

On 11/3/2023 at 7:48 PM, Jasten said:

Moment of silence for the loss of a gem... 😒

I wouldn't assume it was lost.  I wonder how many other books the person did the same thing to and if it was inadvertent.

It sounds like it is coming to a good resolution, and Mike deserves kudos for standing up for a customer. With the turnover the company experiences, security must always be on top of things.

[Get Marwood & I]

I think @Ghostzapper deserves praise for bringing this example to the forum, and for conducting himself in a considered, non-combative, and dignified manner throughout. It was a stressful life event that prompted the submission in the first instance, and CGC have added to that stress by acting in an unprofessional, evasive way. Mistakes will happen in a high pressure, high volume, human-led environment. Whilst discarding a book in error is very unfortunate, as is allowing a book that is, say, upside down in a slab to pass QC, it is understandable and can be forgiven if the response to it is appropriate. 

I wish you well John, and hope that the recompense CGC offer - for the loss of value and associated stress - is appropriate and to your satisfaction.

[Gaard]

On 11/4/2023 at 5:04 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

and CGC have added to that stress by acting in an unprofessional, evasive way.

agreed, but not surprised

 

@Ghostzapper - Happy for you. Though the process was unnecessarily difficult, the outcome was a positive one. I truly hope they don't try to weasel out of the max compensation for your book ... they've done enough.

I work for people whose first response to anything bad happening is "Who did it?",  so I've learned how important it is to document everything. Sadly, it's a finger-ponting society we live in. It was disappointing (but again not surprising) that they at first blamed you and didn't even acknowledge that they might've made a mistake. Kudos to you for sticking to your guns and not accepting them not accepting fault.

I want to agree with others that it is very sad that @CGC Mike had to get involved and that his involvement was probably why this outcome happened. The members on these chat boards constitute a very, very small percentage of CGC's customers ... who would've been SOL. That's sad ... and kinda makes me angry.

One more thing (and this might be construed as me backtracking), but how did the video reviewer determine that a magazine was inside? Especially after the receiver (who had the box right in front of him) didn't? Did he see it? Obviously not, or the receiver would've seen it. I kinda understand now the legalities for not supplying you the video, but can they at least tell you exactly what it shows?

Again, happy for you. If continuing to use CGC's services makes you happy, please do so. But if this ordeal puts you off from using them again, I don't think anyone (including CGC) would blame you.

 

Edited November 4, 2023 by Gaard

[Ryan.]

On 11/4/2023 at 6:03 AM, Gaard said:

If continuing to use CGC's services makes you happy, please do so. But if this ordeal puts you off from using them again, I don't think anyone (including CGC) would blame you.

 

Well, he's about to have $4000 in submission credit so...

[Gaard]

Personally, I wouldn't want any credit. It's my money and I'll spend it any way I choose!

[Nick Furious]

On 11/4/2023 at 5:03 AM, Gaard said:

One more thing (and this might be construed as me backtracking), but how did the video reviewer determine that a magazine was inside? Especially after the receiver (who had the box right in front of him) didn't? Did he see it? Obviously not, or the receiver would've seen it

To be fair, I think the video examiner knew exactly what he was looking for and had unlimited time to recognize it, while the person in receiving did not.  With advance information, the video examiner didn't have to actually see the magazine in order to recognize that the cardboard sandwich was presumably more than just packing material. 

On 11/4/2023 at 6:35 AM, Ryan. said:

Well, he's about to have $4000 in submission credit so...

On 11/4/2023 at 6:40 AM, Gaard said:

Personally, I wouldn't want any credit. It's my money and I'll spend it any way I choose!

lol, can't imagine that anyone, even a CGC employee, would think that it's appropriate to offer submission credit in this situation.  Hopefully a check is in the mail by the end of next week and the net result is that the OP saved on the expense and hassle of selling the book.   

[namisgr]

Glad to learn that CGC was finally cornered into taking responsibility and that at least financial restitution will be forthcoming.  But the notion that this will somehow be a learning experience for CGC that will improve their customer service going forward is countered by many instances from their prior history that did not, from problems deciding whether staples have or have not been cleaned to the handling of small amounts of glue, to instances where unrestored books have been declared trimmed, to books being encapsulated with the wrong labels or upside down, to continuing problems with slab-related issues like shaken comic syndrome, Newton rings, and slabs flawed by dirt, scratches, and plastic flakes inside.

I imagine finding the right balance between speed at every step of the work processes, on the one hand, and high reliability and quality of the finished products on the other, will continue to be a challenge.

Edited November 4, 2023 by namisgr