UPDATE! — CGC nefarious behavior! Any advice/help would be appreciated. 6 6

[Nick Furious]

On 11/4/2023 at 1:34 AM, wombat said:

Its insane that he has to personally solves so many problems when probably 99% of people who submit books don't know he exists.

I just assumed that everyone with an unsolved CGC problem finds their way to the forum eventually.  Isn't that how baby boardies are made?  

[Dick Pontoon]

On 11/3/2023 at 10:56 PM, mattn792 said:

“Fun” aside - I got a $0 invoice from NGC the other day, and I know that my NYCC books were recently submitted.  And I know my facilitator didn’t screw up.  After Ghostzapper’s story, now I’m really wondering if my books are actually going to get where they’re supposed to go.

Might be a phishing email and not really from NGC:

 

[Gaard]

On 11/4/2023 at 7:55 AM, Nick Furious said:

To be fair, I think the video examiner knew exactly what he was looking for and had unlimited time to recognize it, while the person in receiving did not.  With advance information, the video examiner didn't have to actually see the magazine in order to recognize that the cardboard sandwich was presumably more than just packing material.

I'd be curious to know if this was the case for @CGC Mike when he looked at the video.

[mattn792]

On 11/3/2023 at 10:45 PM, VintageComics said:

I should have said short of finding the book.

Obviously finding the book would have been best.

You disagree?

CGC could have told him he didn't ship the book and he was SOL. Would that have been better?

 

Putting aside the other myriad problems wit this situation for the moment:

1. CGC tried very hard to tell Ghostzapper that he was indeed SOL.  Had there been no CGC Mike to turn to, a costly trip through the legal system may have been his only other recourse. 

2. As of now, Ghostzapper has $0 restitution in his pocket.  He got jerked around once already, for all we know, CGC’s opening offer will be a free one year associate membership, or $200 in grading credit.

 

[Nick Furious]

On 11/4/2023 at 7:48 AM, mattn792 said:

 Had there been no CGC Mike to turn to, a costly trip through the legal system may have been his only other recourse.

But there is a @CGC Mike.  He not a self-employed justice vigilante on Facebook.  He's paid for by CGC and authorized to intervene in these situations to help find resolution, and I think CGC deserves credit for that.  We can't really criticize CGC while praising Mike as if they are two separate entities.  If we are appreciating Mike, then we are appreciating CGC.  I think the "third-party" assistance critical to resolution was the forum members, through extended discussion, getting the OP to explain exactly what should be looked for on the video.  That then allowed a CGC employee, @CGC Mike, to get the resolution.    

[CGC Mike]

On 11/3/2023 at 9:30 PM, Ghostzapper said:

I have no idea how the next process is going to go towards compensation so we’ll see.

I am glad to see that things are turning into a different direction regarding this.  If you have any questions or concerns during  the claims process, let me know and I will try to find the answers and assist you through this.

[workingdog]

I sincerely hope the person in receiving responsible for GZ's nightmare, was promptly escorted off CGC premises by security and turned over to the authorities.  In turn, have a warrant issued to search the receiver's home to see if they might come upon other 'missing books' (like mine that I mentioned in an earlier post).  Who knows what they might discover. 

[wombat]

On 11/4/2023 at 9:18 AM, Nick Furious said:

But there is a @CGC Mike.  He not a self-employed justice vigilante on Facebook.  He's paid for by CGC and authorized to intervene in these situations to help find resolution, and I think CGC deserves credit for that.  We can't really criticize CGC while praising Mike as if they are two separate entities.  If we are appreciating Mike, then we are appreciating CGC.  I think the "third-party" assistance critical to resolution was the forum members, through extended discussion, getting the OP to explain exactly what should be looked for on the video.  That then allowed a CGC employee, @CGC Mike, to get the resolution.    

The problem is how many people know he exists and can help with their problems? He isn't advertised on their website. You have to make your way to this forum and hope to stumble across him. Its CGC's way of saying we will try to make forum members happy so they don't cause a big stink, while knowing full well he will only ever see a very small fraction of the issues that come up. If you want to give them credit for that so be it. 

[shadroch]

On 11/4/2023 at 8:38 AM, wombat said:

The problem is how many people know he exists and can help with their problems? He isn't advertised on their website. You have to make your way to this forum and hope to stumble across him. Its CGC's way of saying we will try to make forum members happy so they don't cause a big stink, while knowing full well he will only ever see a very small fraction of the issues that come up. If you want to give them credit for that so be it. 

Is he the customer service agent for CGC or is he the forum moderator?  I think the company has a customer service department and Mike is not their sole liason.

[VintageComics]

On 11/4/2023 at 8:48 AM, mattn792 said:

On 11/3/2023 at 11:45 PM, VintageComics said:

I should have said short of finding the book.

Obviously finding the book would have been best.

You disagree?

CGC could have told him he didn't ship the book and he was SOL. Would that have been better?

 

Putting aside the other myriad problems wit this situation for the moment:

1. CGC tried very hard to tell Ghostzapper that he was indeed SOL.  Had there been no CGC Mike to turn to, a costly trip through the legal system may have been his only other recourse. 

2. As of now, Ghostzapper has $0 restitution in his pocket.  He got jerked around once already, for all we know, CGC’s opening offer will be a free one year associate membership, or $200 in grading credit.

I guess some people will always see the glass half empty but that's a choice and I choose not to. 

First, let me clarify that I've stated my opinion based on my own personal experience. I just don't post all my personal experiences on here with CGC, contrary to what some may think but I have LOTS of them.

Ghostzapper messaged me as soon as he started this thread (we've dealt with each other over the years) and we've been talking in the background. So far he's reasonably content (obviously all things considered) with how this was handled, so I find it odd that the crowd isn't. 

Seriously, they could have just as easily have said sorry no can do. I've been shut out by businesses where they were in the wrong and there was literally no recourse left except legal, and who wants to go down that route? 

In regards to your ( 2.) point, it's probably best to let CGC and Ghostzapper sort this out to it's final conclusion and THEN comment on the results rather than putting the cart before the horse and quarterbacking the thing from our laptops in our underwear? (well, at least that was me last night )

This isn't Facebook. It's literally their front yard. 

Finally, we all understand how big corporations run and that customer service is a very disappointing thing in the internet age and that sometimes airing grievances publicly is the ONLY way to get someone to take notice. 

Do you think something's going to change based on what everyone already knows about how the world works?

You can't strongarm any large business into accepting your value system. You can only speak with your mouth and your dollars to check something you don't like.

It's one of the MAIN reasons I never wanted to do large volume in any industry I was in. I don't want to deal with the volume that comes with social media, bad actors, bad customers etc. This way I not only get to choose who I want to deal with but more importantly, I can also address every issue that may arise with much more attention and care than if I was dealing with zillions of people. 

I respect anyone's business choices but that's not for me. I want to do things in my life and not just wrangle with an unreasonable mass of people. I'm too old for that shizzle. 

When I said this was a win, win, it is literally the best case scenario UNDER ALL THE CIRCUMSTANCES as I understand them TO THIS POINT. 

CGC got caught with their pants down, CGC is going to be out financially for their mistake, Ghostzapper is on the road to being made whole, the shipping department learned a valuable lesson, everyone reading this thread learned valuable lessons. 

And just imagine if that missing magazine had resto on it, graded lower than expected or had some other thing go wrong?

I just don't see the negative here. I'd be thrilled if it was me. 

And if anyone disagrees, as always I'm happy to change my opinion if they have a compelling point to make. 

Sorry to be so long winded, but I'm trying to make sure there are no misunderstandings in what I write. 

Your mileage may vary and I respect that. 

[CGC Mike]

On 11/4/2023 at 11:52 AM, shadroch said:

Is he the customer service agent for CGC or is he the forum moderator?  I think the company has a customer service department and Mike is not their sole liason.

Here is what I was introduced as:  

CGC would also like to introduce its new CGC Chat Boards Community Liaison, Michael Greenwood! Many members already know Michael, a collector with years of experience

— both in comics and the CGC Chat Boards. Michael’s involvement and other members of the CGC team will strengthen CGC’s interaction and transparency with collectors and dealers. We feel Michael is a great fit for his role in this new endeavor, and we expect to soon supplement his efforts with other help from CGC employees.

[seanlinc]

Oddly enough I was going to send in 2 submissions about a week ago and was considering how to pack them. Luckily I bought a couple of raw books that I needed to work on a bit more so I just sent in 1 submission. This whole thread would have stressed me out as I probably would have packed them similar to the op. Glad this has come to a kinda sorta positive outcome.

[wombat]

On 11/4/2023 at 11:53 AM, VintageComics said:

the shipping department learned a valuable lesson

You are making a massive assumption here. 

[Cat]

On 11/4/2023 at 10:35 PM, Gaard said:

I'd be curious to know if this was the case for @CGC Mike when he looked at the video.

He sat in front of grainy 144p footage and kept yelling "ENHANCE" and boom, there it was, plain as day, for all to see, the missing book. 

[VintageComics]

On 11/4/2023 at 12:25 PM, wombat said:

On 11/4/2023 at 11:53 AM, VintageComics said:

the shipping department learned a valuable lesson

You are making a massive assumption here. 

Yup, the internet is full of them. Mine are just usually more correct than other's.  

If YOU were in charge of the shipping department and found out one of yours threw out an expensive book, how would you handle it? 

Do you think CGC wants another thread like this parked on their front lawn? 

[wombat]

On 11/4/2023 at 12:36 PM, VintageComics said:

Yup, the internet is full of them. Mine are just usually more correct than other's.  

If YOU were in charge of the shipping department and found out one of yours threw out an expensive book, how would you handle it? 

Do you think CGC wants another thread like this parked on their front lawn? 

I would offer up all the repeated mistakes that get though QC that I certainly imagine they don't want to see ever day of the forum they don't "learn a lesson" on. I would also throw out there that this isn't some crazy one time  set of circumstances. If I ran the shipping department every single person unpacking books would have already been aware that you need to thoroughly check every box so you don't throw out a $4,000 book, but here we are. 

[thehumantorch]

On 11/4/2023 at 5:58 AM, Nick Furious said:

I just assumed that everyone with an unsolved CGC problem finds their way to the forum eventually.  Isn't that how baby boardies are made?  

Unfortunately, I suspect for every person who comes here with a problem there are probably 10 who don't.

[VintageComics]

On 11/4/2023 at 12:40 PM, wombat said:

I would offer up all the repeated mistakes that get though QC that I certainly imagine they don't want to see ever day of the forum they don't "learn a lesson" on. I would also throw out there that this isn't some crazy one time  set of circumstances. If I ran the shipping department every single person unpacking books would have already been aware that you need to thoroughly check every box so you don't throw out a $4,000 book, but here we are. 

If you unpacked, graded, slabbed, QC'd and shipped 10,000,000 books how many mistakes do you think you'd make? 

That's 5 x 10,000,000 = 50,000,0000 opportunities for a mistake. 

Do you think there would be threads about how horrible Wombat is at certification? 

 

[VintageComics]

On 11/4/2023 at 12:41 PM, thehumantorch said:

On 11/4/2023 at 7:58 AM, Nick Furious said:

I just assumed that everyone with an unsolved CGC problem finds their way to the forum eventually.  Isn't that how baby boardies are made?  

Unfortunately, I suspect for every person who comes here with a problem there are probably 10 who don't.

When people choose not to speak out about an injustice that's their choice.

If people want the world to change, they need to speak up. It's that simple. 

Some responsibility needs to be put on the people who DON'T speak up.

Since nobody is perfect that's how ALL RELATIONSHIPS WORK when you encounter a problem. You ENTANGLE to work towards solutions. 

[DougC]

On 11/4/2023 at 11:36 AM, VintageComics said:

Yup, the internet is full of them. Mine are just usually more correct than other's.  

If YOU were in charge of the shipping department and found out one of yours threw out an expensive book, how would you handle it? 

Do you think CGC wants another thread like this parked on their front lawn? 

I would love to believe this but "CGC lost my books" threads are starting to become scarily common, so obviously there are issues that are not being addressed.