UPDATE! — CGC nefarious behavior! Any advice/help would be appreciated. 6 6

[Ghostzapper]

I recently submitted 2 comics and 1 magazine under the Unlimited Value tier (2 invoices) for pressing and grading. I sent both orders in one box, separated the 2 comics and 1 magazine with each printed invoice taped to each. I wrapped them together and placed them in the box. I went out specifically to get a box from the post office, came home and immediately packed them up and then immediately drove back to the post office and mailed them USPS Express Mail next day on Friday Oct 6th.
 

The 2 comics were entered into the system and said at CCS on Wed Oct 11th, the day before NYCC. I didn’t think anything of it that the magazine wasn’t entered into the system. Not seeing any update beginning of the following week I called CGC on Tuesday Oct 17th. I was told give it another day or so as a lot of our people just got back from NYCC. I called the next day late afternoon at 3:13pm est and then again on Friday Oct 20th for an update, they had none. On one of those calls I was given a ticket number to refer to when calling.

I have been calling up to today. Every time I called I was told the same thing we are investigating. I was strung along for almost 3 weeks with No update. About a week ago someone mentioned in another thread to ask if they have video of the package being opened, I did about a week ago and they said they do and that would be part of their investigation.

Today I got a call from CGC, they left me a voicemail saying rather than saying in voicemail they would email me their findings and in the email they said “we reviewed the tape and there was No magazine. Perhaps I thought I included it but may have made a mistake and forgot to include it”, absolutely ridiculous. The day it was sent I specifically went out for a box, came home packaged all 3 up (2 comics, 1 magazine) and immediately went out to mail it. After reading the email, I called CGC and asked to speak with the woman who left me a voicemail and sent me an email. She was not made available, I said I would hold as long as I had to to speak with her. I was told to email her any concerns. I asked to send me the video, they said “we can’t do that”.

So basically they won’t show me proof via video (and who knows how informative that is) of the package being opened. I mailed all 3 books/magazine together in the same package on the lives of my family. Also, my package was opened the day before NYCC with a skeleton crew, they dragged me along for weeks and I’m supposed to move on with no resolution. They in no way went out of their way to keep me informed, I had to call a dozen times with basically No help.

I am asking for any help or advice to what recourse I may have with my missing/stolen magazine. Any opinions or anything I’m open to hearing. I’m scrambling what to do. CGC has been no help at all. I can’t believe they get away with what they do. I met another collector through buying/selling and his story was even more egregious.

Thanks in advance!

John

Edited November 3, 2023 by Ghostzapper
Thread updated

[CAHokie]

I think the only person who may be able to help you here is @CGC Mike  

[Ghostzapper]

On 11/1/2023 at 10:37 PM, CAHokie said:

I think the only person who may be able to help you here is @CGC Mike  

I would appreciate help from anyone. Something happened, either by mistake or intentional and can’t get answers.

[thehumantorch]

On 11/1/2023 at 9:31 PM, Ghostzapper said:

I would appreciate help from anyone. Something happened, either by mistake or intentional and can’t get answers.

Sorry to hear this   I don't think CGC is evil but they can certainly make mistakes.  I'd keep asking questions and keep insisting that the magazine was sent and they need to look harder.

Can you tell us what the magazine was?

[Domo Arigato]

On 11/1/2023 at 10:52 PM, thehumantorch said:

Sorry to hear this   I don't think CGC is evil but they can certainly make mistakes. 

I would normally agree with this.

But saying the video shows there was no magazine in the package.....and then refusing to share that video with the submitter......is absolute horsesh*t.

 

[Ghostzapper]

On 11/1/2023 at 11:52 PM, thehumantorch said:

Can you tell us what the magazine was?

I certainly will but at this time, I’d rather keep private until I know what happened.

[VintageComics]

On 11/2/2023 at 12:08 AM, Domo Arigato said:

I would normally agree with this.

But saying the video shows there was no magazine in the package.....and then refusing to share that video with the submitter......is absolute horsesh*t.

 

Were the two invoices protected separately? Meaning, 2 comics in one cardboard sandwich and the magazine in it's own cardboard "sandwich" ?

Some of us have had this happen to us. Sometimes there is more than one cardboard sandwich stacked in a box and we may miss the 2nd one when opening a package, especially if it's thin and on the bottom.

This happened to me recently. There was literally a magazine in the bottom of the box but the cardboard sandwich was so big it lined the bottom of the box so I initially only saw the comics in the larger sandwich and thought the 2nd sandwich was the bottom of the box. 

After a few days, I realized I was missing the mag, inquired about the missing mag and I was assured it was in there and upon deeper inspection it was actually there...only it wasn't apparent because it was camouflaged.  

Thankfully I didn't throw the box out. . 

--------------------------------

EDIT: Also, were the invoices added separately inside each sandwich or together, outside the sandwiches? If they only found the one invoice from the 1st sandwich, they may not have even thought to look for another set of books in the box. 

This is one important reason when I have different items I make sure they're all bound together to make sure they're all opened. 

If you stack them in a box they may forget to dig deeper. 

Just spitballing. 

Edited November 2, 2023 by VintageComics

[Ghostzapper]

On 11/2/2023 at 12:08 AM, Domo Arigato said:

I would normally agree with this.

But saying the video shows there was no magazine in the package.....and then refusing to share that video with the submitter......is absolute horsesh*t.

 

That’s what they said, they have video of the person opening the box but won’t show me. Was the box opened previously and resealed and then opened on video, is the video clear and concise, can you see all the contents coming out of it, was it all laid out on a table? I won’t know the answers to any of that until I see for myself what happened.

Then they try and make me feel like I’m losing my mind and that I made a mistake and not included my magazine. The declared value was $4000. If it was $100 magazine, i’f still be upset but could get over it. They strung me along for almost a month, provided no help and say they wrapped it up and I’m supposed to just drop it. I understand people can think what they want, no one knows me and I’ve donated to but on the lives of the children of St Jude, on the lives of my family I sent my magazine in with 2 comics packed separately but in the same box. I’d have to be a sick individual to say that and it be a lie.

You think when you package these items up and send them out your work is done but you put the faith of your collectibles in the hands of people that could care less and do nothing to make it right. They don’t care in the amount of time you’ve hunted or spent, to them it means nothing. I just want answers, that’s all.

[VintageComics]

Edited my post above. 

[Ghostzapper]

On 11/2/2023 at 12:35 AM, VintageComics said:

Edited my post above. 

Yes, the invoice inside and was taped to the bag of the magazine between cardboard but I wrote on the cardboard 1 magazine and on the 2 Comics’s cardboard “2 Comics” but the invoices were inside the sandwich. That is why I want see the video because I wrapped them together, they probably threw it out but I can tell them for sure if I see the video and it’s clear. They can post the video here for all to see.

[shadroch]

That sucks. I hope it gets resolved.  I had a customer overlook a book at the bottom of a box, but these clowns are supposed to be professionals.

[Ghostzapper]

On 11/2/2023 at 1:07 AM, shadroch said:

That sucks. I hope it gets resolved.  I had a customer overlook a book at the bottom of a box, but these clowns are supposed to be professionals.

I appreciate that. I do too. My Mom died in 2021 after going through liver cancer. She took care of my father who’s a Vietnam Vet, did everything for him and he’s also an alcoholic. I’ve had to take care of him the last few years. I’ve had these books and was only trying to monetize their value and get them pressed and graded to help with bills and other commitments and then this happens. Only adds to the stress. I just asked for transparency to prove they f’d up but I only hear there’s no recourse. I also had to listen to people at CGC (I think when I called I got a different person almost every time and then it rotated back again because I called so much). Their lack of urgency and making you feel you did something wrong is abhorrent, imo.

[wombat]

Absolutely horrible. I really hope things work out for you on this. 

[Gaard]

Did they say why they can't show you the video?

Let's assume the magazine was included but the kid opening the box didn't see it and tossed it. How can you know? Simple ... review the footage. Call and ask again. And if they refuse, call again. Take it up the ladder further with each call. If you know it was in there, how can you not keep trying? It's $4000.

 

Sounds like CYA ... "Just say the video shows it wasn't in there."

Edited November 2, 2023 by Gaard

[DougC]

I am going to assume this will go the way of every other "CGC lost my books" thread; you will be strung along in the hopes that you give up, when that fails they will say it is your fault and you didn't send the book (and no, you can't look at the video we don't actually have), the only other option is might offer some system credit if you stop posting about it.

You seem to be in the middle of "just wait" and "not our fault" leading into "pound sand territory"; depending on the value of the magazine or the time you wish to spend you could contact the Consumer Protection Division (AG office) of Florida to lodge a complaint. You should take the time to write an organized and informed brief including CGC's response and unwillingness to provide proof in any way. Expand upon how this was handled, include package weights, why you believe you have been wronged when they didn't reach out after not receiving the book (did they receive the invoice?).

So far they have not lost a large enough book to really shine the light on them (though threads like this are becoming rather common) but eventually someone with enough FAFO money is going to be wronged and try to file in court which would show the video evidence in question during discovery unless they settled.

IIRC earlier this year a Hulk 181 was stolen (empty box) and CGC just said "sucks to suck and we already threw the box away nerd" but the person in question eventually replied via PM they were no longer "allowed" to speak about it.

[Gaard]

On 11/2/2023 at 4:18 AM, DougC said:

include package weights

That's a good one. If you have it (should be on the label), that will be proof, I would think.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Gaard

[shadroch]

Would Collector's Insurance cover something like this?

[KCOComics]

Could there be confusion between CCS and CGC? 

I'm not sure how the handoffs work,  but it's a mixed order. Two comics and a magazine. They all must have went to CCS first. The two comics would have been packaged together and sent for grading and the mag sent separately. 

If we give everyone the benefit of the doubt, I suppose it's possible the video would show CGC opening only the two comics,  because CCS would have already separated the order. 

This is just a thought. I'm not actually sure how it works. 

Regardless I'm really sorry about this situation and hope it works out. I do agree cgc should share the video. 

[Get Marwood & I]

Another day, another thread that calls into question the integrity of CGC's working practices.

There are a finite number of reasonable scenarios here (in general, not specific to the OPs case):

1. The submitter did not include the magazine on purpose, in an attempt to defraud CGC
2. The submitter did not include the magazine in error
3. The magazine was taken out of the parcel by an unknown third party after it was sent, and before it reached CGC
4. The magazine was in the parcel, CGC missed it, and it is still in the parcel (re Vintage Roy's scenario) 
5. The magazine was in the parcel and CGC have lost it

To protect themselves and the customer, CGC tell us that they film the opening of packages. They tell @Ghostzapper - a member here for 14 years - that they have reviewed the video and that it was not there. To stand any chance of retaining credibility, they must show Ghostzapper that video evidence.

Ghostzapper - I'm sorry to hear of your recent troubles and I hope this gets resolved quickly and to your satisfaction.

[DougC]

Sources tell me this is the potential video....

Spoiler

It's me... i'm the source!