Finger Bends, Fingerprints etc In Recent Grading? 5 5

[PovertyRow]

I'm considering submitting more books to CGC but am leery after the plethora of finger bends and creases on my modern (1975-Present) submissions that had been pressed and sub'd by a VERY well known and respected presser here. 

So I am wondering if folks receiving recent submissions are still seeing these defects in their Modern books but also if they are seeing them in the Vintage (pre-1975) books.

I have been seeing some of the recent posts about slab scuffs etc. but am primarily interested in the actual grade of the book and potential defects once they are in CGC's hands.. 

Should I decide to submit you can be sure I will imaging of each submission.

Thanks folks!

Edited November 16, 2023 by PovertyRow
spilling...err...spelling

[VintageComics]

On 11/16/2023 at 2:45 PM, PovertyRow said:

I'm considering submitting more books to CGC but am leery after the plethora of finger bends and creases on my modern (1975-Present) submissions that had been pressed and sub'd by a VERY well known and respected presser here. 

So I am wondering if folks receiving recent submissions are still seeing these defects in their Modern books but also if they are seeing them in the Vintage (pre-1975) books.

I have been seeing some of the recent posts about slab scuffs etc. but am primarily interested in the actual grade of the book and potential defects once they are in CGC's hands.. 

Should I decide to submit you can be sure I will imaging of each submission.

Thanks folks!

Pov, are the defects in the notes or are you actually seeing them on the books themselves?

[PovertyRow]

On 11/16/2023 at 6:46 PM, VintageComics said:

Pov, are the defects in the notes or are you actually seeing them on the books themselves?

Both. This was back in Feb 2022 and lots of folks were reporting especially finger bends and creases that were not there before. It has been documented enough for Mike to put out a request for folks to send him details of their submissions. Since pretty much a couple of years have gone by I wanted to discern if this remains as bad as it was then.

[VintageComics]

On 11/16/2023 at 9:55 PM, PovertyRow said:

Both. This was back in Feb 2022 and lots of folks were reporting especially finger bends and creases that were not there before. It has been documented enough for Mike to put out a request for folks to send him details of their submissions. Since pretty much a couple of years have gone by I wanted to discern if this remains as bad as it was then.

CGC has been putting all sorts of notes that make no sense on books in my experience and I'm not sure why. 

I literally would get books back, crack them out, look for the defect in the notes and was unable to find the defects. It was quite ridiculous for a while. 

The only thing I can think of is they had new graders. 

[PovertyRow]

On 11/16/2023 at 9:48 PM, VintageComics said:

CGC has been putting all sorts of notes that make no sense on books in my experience and I'm not sure why. 

I literally would get books back, crack them out, look for the defect in the notes and was unable to find the defects. It was quite ridiculous for a while. 

The only thing I can think of is they had new graders. 

Yes, this was happening in the midst of CGC playing catchup and increasing the hiring of new graders. I understand all that.

I am trying to determine from folks who have submitted and received books back recently if this finger bend/crease/fingerprint trend has been lessened..

[The Lions Den]

On 11/17/2023 at 1:29 AM, PovertyRow said:

Yes, this was happening in the midst of CGC playing catchup and increasing the hiring of new graders. I understand all that.

I am trying to determine from folks who have submitted and received books back recently if this finger bend/crease/fingerprint trend has been lessened..

This is a pretty tough question to answer, but here goes...   

What I can tell you is that if you're trying to determine the amount and frequency of finger bends on CGC graded books, it's probably going to be a waste of your valuable time and energy. But if you're in a gambling mood, step up to the bar, make your wager, kiss the lucky rabbit's foot and spin the big wheel.

I wish you the best of luck...  

  

 

[Topnotchman]

On 11/16/2023 at 8:55 PM, PovertyRow said:

Both. This was back in Feb 2022 and lots of folks were reporting especially finger bends and creases that were not there before. It has been documented enough for Mike to put out a request for folks to send him details of their submissions. Since pretty much a couple of years have gone by I wanted to discern if this remains as bad as it was then.

I have not gotten any types of notes for finger bends as a mystery problem with my orders.  I do have problems with books getting lobster clawed somehow after grading and maybe during the encapsulation process where I notice bends and other damage along the spine. 

[PovertyRow]

On 11/17/2023 at 4:01 AM, The Lions Den said:

This is a pretty tough question to answer, but here goes...   

What I can tell you is that if you're trying to determine the amount and frequency of finger bends on CGC graded books, it's probably going to be a waste of your valuable time and energy. But if you're in a gambling mood, step up to the bar, make your wager, kiss the lucky rabbit's foot and spin the big wheel.

I wish you the best of luck...  

  

 

Thanks but it is a deceptively simple question. As I said on the first post, there was a period a couple of years ago when finger bends and creases seemed rampant on freshly pressed books (mine included) as CGC ramped up their personnel.

All I am asking is if this seems to be continuing with folks who have recently received their books back from CGC.

[Dr. Love]

My personal experience, GA, small sample set - none at all

HA romance auction end Oct had me look up 65 Atlas slabs, maybe 60 of them recent GA early SA admissions within the last 3 months - none at all

A simple question that could be answered beyond asking here - requires some work though - find a recent submit, HA links to cert lookup is probably the easiest way, and then run through the whole cert by incrementing the cert # until you reach an end to that cert.  rinse and repeat.  If you've got 2 hours or so you're willing to put in, you'll prob get some sort of vague answer you can run with

[buttock]

On 11/16/2023 at 10:48 PM, VintageComics said:

CGC has been putting all sorts of notes that make no sense on books in my experience and I'm not sure why. 

I literally would get books back, crack them out, look for the defect in the notes and was unable to find the defects. It was quite ridiculous for a while. 

The only thing I can think of is they had new graders. 

I had a 7.5 that looks way better that I just cracked out from this era for supposed staining on the cover.  None to be found. 

[PovertyRow]

On 11/18/2023 at 12:53 PM, Dr. Love said:

My personal experience, GA, small sample set - none at all

HA romance auction end Oct had me look up 65 Atlas slabs, maybe 60 of them recent GA early SA admissions within the last 3 months - none at all

A simple question that could be answered beyond asking here - requires some work though - find a recent submit, HA links to cert lookup is probably the easiest way, and then run through the whole cert by incrementing the cert # until you reach an end to that cert.  rinse and repeat.  If you've got 2 hours or so you're willing to put in, you'll prob get some sort of vague answer you can run with

Good lord I never knew that about HA, and I have had an account with them for years! Useful little tool! Thanks.

[PovertyRow]

So I took this advice and tried a few searches and soon got hit with "CGC Search Limitation Exceeded,  Looking Up Your search activity has exceeded our limits. These limits help to protect the security of our database. Please try again later."

I checked ASK CGC and saw the same issues was asked back in 2020. No apparent resolution there or explanation other than someone was going to check the functionality.

I posted the following in ASK CGC and just waiting for it to clear an admin and get posted there:

I have dome a few searches with the Certification tool and got hit with CGC Search Limitation Exceeded,  Looking Up Your search activity has exceeded our limits. These limits help to protect the security of our database. Please try again later.

I've waited a while. Changed from Chrome to Firefox. Wiped all history. Disabled all extensions, and still get this. I have a Premium CGC Membership. I have three questions:

1) if there is a limitation to the number of searches what is that number?

2) If one has to wait a certain time to search again what is that wait time?

3) If neither of the above is there a fix for this?

Thanks!

[CGC Mike]

I am not sure we supply the answers to number 1 and number 2.  Anyhow, here is a recent post from customer service regarding this:

[PovertyRow]

On 11/18/2023 at 6:45 PM, CGC Mike said:

I am not sure we supply the answers to number 1 and number 2.  Anyhow, here is a recent post from customer service regarding this:

As always thanks Mike. You never fail to come through! Unfortunately, I have been logged in with my Premium Membership. Last search I tried was about 90 minutes ago that gave me the error. Just tried again and got the same error. Seems an awful long time to still generate that error. Could something actually be either broken or have an incorrect parameter in the algorithm?

[CGC Mike]

On 11/18/2023 at 10:37 PM, PovertyRow said:

As always thanks Mike. You never fail to come through! Unfortunately, I have been logged in with my Premium Membership. Last search I tried was about 90 minutes ago that gave me the error. Just tried again and got the same error. Seems an awful long time to still generate that error. Could something actually be either broken or have an incorrect parameter in the algorithm?

If you don't get answers in the Ask CGC section tomorrow, let me know and I will find out if something is broke or not. 

[Gaard]

For a while (for a much too long period of time & around the time that they hired many new graders), there was a common theme among the graders notes. That theme was what I & others referred to as 'phantom flaws'. There was a plethora of defects being noted by the graders that were not there. I'm not sure what the reason for this was, but many, many people experienced it. It was almost like the graders had to do it (or thought they had to do it). It hasn't been reported in a while ... that I'm aware of.

[The Lions Den]

On 11/18/2023 at 3:32 PM, PovertyRow said:

Thanks but it is a deceptively simple question. As I said on the first post, there was a period a couple of years ago when finger bends and creases seemed rampant on freshly pressed books (mine included) as CGC ramped up their personnel.

All I am asking is if this seems to be continuing with folks who have recently received their books back from CGC.

Sorry if I misunderstood what you were asking---my mistake. 

My guess is that this phenomenon may have been caused by a combination of things---new graders, increased volume due to the pandemic, and moving various departments within the CGC system into different physical locations. All of these things can result in people trying to go faster than normal to catch up, which often translates to more books being mishandled, mislabeled or damaged.  

From what I understand, they are currently in a much better place than they were two years ago. But since finger bends are a very common defect, it may be tough to quantify whether they're happening with the same frequency as before. Moreover, it often requires cracking the books out to actually see some of those finger bends, which does seem to defeat the whole purpose of slabbing them in the first place. 

I do look forward to the results of your query, since I also have the same concerns. Good luck!    

[Dick Pontoon]

On 11/19/2023 at 11:47 AM, The Lions Den said:

Sorry if I misunderstood what you were asking---my mistake. 

My guess is that this phenomenon may have been caused by a combination of things---new graders, increased volume due to the pandemic, and moving various departments within the CGC system into different physical locations. All of these things can result in people trying to go faster than normal to catch up, which often translates to more books being mishandled, mislabeled or damaged.  

From what I understand, they are currently in a much better place than they were two years ago. But since finger bends are a very common defect, it may be tough to quantify whether they're happening with the same frequency as before. Moreover, it often requires cracking the books out to actually see some of those finger bends, which does seem to defeat the whole purpose of slabbing them in the first place. 

I do look forward to the results of your query, since I also have the same concerns. Good luck!    

Sorry but this is all super vague and still not very convincing. Not saying none of what you say is true, but you aren't exactly providing any factual evidence to back it up, either.

[El Toro Rojo]

To answer the original question, yep. I've stopped submitting:

 

[gte4289]

On 11/16/2023 at 11:45 AM, PovertyRow said:

So I am wondering if folks receiving recent submissions are still seeing these defects in their Modern books but also if they are seeing them in the Vintage (pre-1975) books...

I just posted about this in the original thread, but I'll respond to your question here as well. I've had two recent submissions come back with grader notes "finger bends on cover," even though I'm certain there were no finger bends when I submitted them. I still can't find even a single finger bend on either book, but I haven't cracked them out of their slabs (and don't plan to).

I'm not sure if this is a matter of a) graders erroneously noting non-existing defects, or b) graders/staff mishandling books prior to grading, causing defects so minor as to be imperceptible once the books are slabbed. Either way, it's odd that both notes state "finger bends on cover" as opposed to "light finger bends on cover," as others have posted.