If I had to guess, I'm going with restoration removal 4 4

[batman_fan]

I really like how the big corner crease color touch was removed.

[JollyComics]

Matt Nelson sometimes told me.  It can be damaged if the color touch is removed so I decided to go against it.  Sold them off as it is.

At all costs, I always avoid the restored books in any ages.

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

Looks like a tear seal was unsealed, too

[Yorick]

On 12/15/2023 at 5:32 PM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

Looks like a tear seal was unsealed, too

I can do that work for free.

[buttock]

On 12/15/2023 at 3:51 PM, batman_fan said:

I really like how the big corner crease color touch was removed.

I sure hope it wasn't pressed.  

[VintageComics]

On 12/15/2023 at 9:42 PM, buttock said:

On 12/15/2023 at 5:51 PM, batman_fan said:

I really like how the big corner crease color touch was removed.

Expand  

I sure hope it wasn't pressed.  

This is just simple economics. Flippers obviously have done the homework and see the value in restored books enough to unrestore them.

If collectors were more educated about restoration and paid more for that book when it was restored nobody would perform that work.

For example, let's say it was something like a 5.0 Restored, if buyers were willing to pay 3.5 Universal money for it as a 5.0 Restored, then that would remove the incentive for someone to buy it and remove the resto for a profit preserving the book AND keeping it better looking. 

I argued the same for pressed books when the Great Pressing Wars were happening. If regular collectors were willing to pony up for "virgin" books they'd remove the profit incentive for pressing them and kill that market. 

Those markets only exist because there's incentive. 

 

[MrBedrock]

On 12/15/2023 at 9:05 PM, VintageComics said:

This is just simple economics. Flippers obviously have done the homework and see the value in restored books enough to unrestore them.

If collectors were more educated about restoration and paid more for that book when it was restored nobody would perform that work.

For example, let's say it was something like a 5.0 Restored, if buyers were willing to pay 3.5 Universal money for it as a 5.0 Restored, then that would remove the incentive for someone to buy it and remove the resto for a profit preserving the book AND keeping it better looking. 

I argued the same for pressed books when the Great Pressing Wars were happening. If regular collectors were willing to pony up for "virgin" books they'd remove the profit incentive for pressing them and kill that market. 

Those markets only exist because there's incentive. 

 

By your examples it could also be argued that those markets exist only because there are flippers.

[Math Teacher]

I know how loath some people are towards restored books. However, if buying a restored book is the only way for you to afford the grail of your dreams, I believe many of us would jump at the chance. I also think that the age of the book has a lot to do with people's willingness to accept restoration. GA = some chance, SA = smaller chance, BA or later = very little chance.

I have had three books from my own collection in which I had restoration removed: Amazing Spider-Man #12 (I didn't realize that it had any restoration when I sent in), Showcase #13 (same reason as before), and Tales to Astonish #35 (I bought it restored). All these books will stay in my collection unless I decide to upgrade them or until I pass on to the great big comic bookstore in the sky.

[ChillMan]

On 12/15/2023 at 10:05 PM, VintageComics said:

This is just simple economics. Flippers obviously have done the homework and see the value in restored books enough to unrestore them.

If collectors were more educated about restoration and paid more for that book when it was restored nobody would perform that work.

For example, let's say it was something like a 5.0 Restored, if buyers were willing to pay 3.5 Universal money for it as a 5.0 Restored, then that would remove the incentive for someone to buy it and remove the resto for a profit preserving the book AND keeping it better looking. 

I argued the same for pressed books when the Great Pressing Wars were happening. If regular collectors were willing to pony up for "virgin" books they'd remove the profit incentive for pressing them and kill that market. 

Those markets only exist because there's incentive. 

 

Yup.

But like I've said before...to make big $, you have to predict ahead.  Don't listen to what everyone else is saying.

The ship has already sailed on pressing-up books.  Every auction has already had the insiders combing over every book pre-auction...analyzing the pressing-up potential.

Edited December 16, 2023 by ChillMan

[Cat-Man_America]

While the pressing boat has sailed ...getting relatively no press coverage these days... I'm much more sanguine about restoration.  FTR, I don't normally seek restored books, although I'm not opposed to them and own a small number that benefit from it. I'm sure those books were restored long before I acquired them; I'd be unlikely to have professional restoration removed from a high grade book as the risk of damage might increase as would my displeasure if the removal impacted the book's appearance in any way.  Like it or not, restored books are an important part of the market and I'm confident the popularity will grow allong with percentage of Universal grade values over time. The only issue with restoration carried over from the early days of grading has always been disclosure. And with third party grading being the marketplace standard, that issue was laid to rest even before the pressing debate started. My two cents (ale extra).

[ChillMan]

On 12/16/2023 at 2:22 AM, Cat-Man_America said:

While the pressing boat has sailed ...getting relatively no press coverage these days... I'm much more sanguine about restoration.  FTR, I don't normally seek restored books, although I'm not opposed to them and own a small number that benefit from it. I'm sure those books were restored long before I acquired them; I'd be unlikely to have professional restoration removed from a high grade book as the risk of damage might increase as would my displeasure if the removal impacted the book's appearance in any way.  Like it or not, restored books are an important part of the market and I'm confident the popularity will grow allong with percentage of Universal grade values over time. The only issue with restoration carried over from the early days of grading has always been disclosure. And with third party grading being the marketplace standard, that issue was laid to rest even before the pressing debate started. My two cents (ale extra).

Yes.  And I don't know.  But I know 1 thing...condition is everything.

All our rookie cards became worthless...unless they're PSA 10...and worth a fortune.  Who predicted that when we were collecting??

Throwing ideas out...maybe in the future...condition won't be the main factor.  Maybe it will be pedigree.

[MrBedrock]

Speaking of condition being a factor - how nutty is this? I had been seeing some of the prices that some auction sites have been getting for VHS. A long time customer recently passed away and his apartment was loaded with vintage VHS, all high grade and all in the original shrink wrap. He had meticulously sliced the bottom of the wrap to access and view the tapes, then replaced them in the box and put them on shelves five or six deep in closets. I had contracted with the executor of the estate to dispose of everything so I contacted one of the auction houses to see if they were interested. After viewing some photos they said sure, and seemed very excited. We boxed everything up, well over 5000 high grade VHS tapes, and dropped them off. I had nothing invested in these so I just asked the auction rep to go through them and work out what they thought would work best for all parties. A week later I got this response - "After reviewing the first half I found only about 10 fully sealed movies out of all of the tapes and nothing of value. The rest were all open on the bottom and of no real value." These were near mint factory boxes with the original tape inside, most from the 80s, and with the original shrink wrap still on. So basically, because the shrink wrap was split at the bottom the tapes were worthless. Now given the fact that most VHS tape has degraded significantly over the last 40 years and is probably unviewable I can certainly understand why sealed is so sought after. I am just amazed that markets like this can be established and folks can be so gullible.

[badback83]

Disgusting.  I hate color touch being scraped from a book like that.  Is it all only about the almighty dollar?!  It’s been done, leave it be.  Sorry, not sorry.

[zzutak]

$558,000 at auction.     
And yes, unopened wine can go bad if the storage conditions are not ideal or if the cork seal is not perfect (and the wine oxidizes). 

[fifties]

I have no use for slabbing, and really don't care much about restoration, since I buy to read.  That said however, the PLOD label on slabs has made normally unaffordable books within my means.

[VintageComics]

On 12/15/2023 at 11:56 PM, MrBedrock said:

By your examples it could also be argued that those markets exist only because there are flippers.

[VintageComics]

On 12/16/2023 at 5:01 PM, zzutak said:

$558,000 at auction.     
And yes, unopened wine can go bad if the storage conditions are not ideal or if the cork seal is not perfect (and the wine oxidizes). 

I know a high end, celebrity security guard who was commissioned to transport a bottle of champagne or wine (can't remember) from the titanic. The bottle was worth so much money that they designed a case for the bottle. This guy worked security for some of the biggest celebrities and even former presidents. 

The case was engineered to withstand a drop from the air so that the bottle wouldn't break even if the plane or helicopter went down.

They tested it by dropping it several times from the air with another bottle, before using it for the real deal. True story. 

Edited December 16, 2023 by VintageComics

[VintageComics]

On 12/16/2023 at 5:52 PM, fifties said:

I have no use for slabbing, and really don't care much about restoration, since I buy to read.  That said however, the PLOD label on slabs has made normally unaffordable books within my means.

I've argued for over 15 years that the purple label created a distaste for that label, which created a strong public aversion to slabbed Restored books, preventing people from trying to understand restored books better and causing the large price disparity.

That's the main reason they're so affordable and why the price gap is large enough for people to profit in between. 

And I agree. As long as I know what I'm getting, for some pieces I don't mind restored. 

Edited December 17, 2023 by VintageComics

[Courageous Cat]

On 12/16/2023 at 6:42 PM, VintageComics said:

I've argued for over 15 years that the purple label has created a distaste for that label, which created a strong public aversion to slabbed Restored books causing them too sell to cheap and prevent people from trying to understand restored books better. 

That's the main reason they're so affordable and why the price gap is large enough for people to profit in between. 

And I agree. As long as I know what I'm getting, for some pieces I don't mind restored. 

I only own one purple. I own an All American 19 restored. I have always wanted that book, but I have zero desire to drop 10k on a blue in the same grade, hence I'm satisfied despite what the haters think. So eat my shorts u naysayers 

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

On 12/16/2023 at 3:41 PM, MrBedrock said:

Speaking of condition being a factor - how nutty is this? I had been seeing some of the prices that some auction sites have been getting for VHS. A long time customer recently passed away and his apartment was loaded with vintage VHS, all high grade and all in the original shrink wrap. He had meticulously sliced the bottom of the wrap to access and view the tapes, then replaced them in the box and put them on shelves five or six deep in closets. I had contracted with the executor of the estate to dispose of everything so I contacted one of the auction houses to see if they were interested. After viewing some photos they said sure, and seemed very excited. We boxed everything up, well over 5000 high grade VHS tapes, and dropped them off. I had nothing invested in these so I just asked the auction rep to go through them and work out what they thought would work best for all parties. A week later I got this response - "After reviewing the first half I found only about 10 fully sealed movies out of all of the tapes and nothing of value. The rest were all open on the bottom and of no real value." These were near mint factory boxes with the original tape inside, most from the 80s, and with the original shrink wrap still on. So basically, because the shrink wrap was split at the bottom the tapes were worthless. Now given the fact that most VHS tape has degraded significantly over the last 40 years and is probably unviewable I can certainly understand why sealed is so sought after. I am just amazed that markets like this can be established and folks can be so gullible.

How heartbreaking. I’m glad the original owner never knew. 
 

but Bedrock are you saying the collectors in this market are gullible to perceive these opened VHS tapes as worthless?