ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[VintageComics]

On 12/20/2023 at 6:21 PM, sledgehammer said:

On 12/20/2023 at 6:00 PM, VintageComics said:

I'm going to label you, Thoth, Sigur and Sledge as the Four Horsemen of Doom.

 

Gee. What a nice thing to say about one of your former customers.

Maybe if I had spent more than $450, you could manage to be a little more polite?

Dude, if your funny bone is malfunctioning I can't help you with that. 

[sledgehammer]

 

On 12/20/2023 at 5:38 PM, VintageComics said:

On 12/20/2023 at 5:21 PM, sledgehammer said:

On 12/20/2023 at 5:00 PM, VintageComics said:

I'm going to label you, Thoth, Sigur and Sledge as the Four Horsemen of Doom.

 

Gee. What a nice thing to say about one of your former customers.

Maybe if I had spent more than $450, you could manage to be a little more polite?

Dude, if your funny bone is malfunctioning I can't help you with that. 

Oh, .

It was a 9.8 ASM too.

[Prince Namor]

On 12/21/2023 at 5:48 AM, jsilverjanet said:

this company has a poor track record and that is why maybe some of us aren't waving their pom poms for the CGC like others are

When some of those 'others' usually are highly critical of corporations involvement in business.

Hypocrisy?

[thehumantorch]

On 12/20/2023 at 2:20 PM, Mutant Manatee said:

I just noticed that the seller in question has made their eBay feedback private.  This just happened within the past hour.  You can no longer see what that recent negative comment said.

Always an indication of a trustworthy, transparent seller....

[TheLexLuthorCollection]

On 12/16/2023 at 5:57 PM, Hot Nickels said:

This is bad. Need a new slab design. And all reholders might need to be regraded. 

I agree that reholders need to be regraded.  I also agree that the slabs need a more secure design.  But isn't it odd that a $3M book has the same slab as a $10 book?  Given the amount of money that we are talking about with expensive books and the cost of grading these expensive books, CGC should offer different slab designs for different book values.  Surely a $5000 book deserves a much more secure slab design than the $10 book.

[bc]

On 12/20/2023 at 7:46 PM, TheLexLuthorCollection said:

I agree that reholders need to be regraded.  I also agree that the slabs need a more secure design.  But isn't it odd that a $3M book has the same slab as a $10 book?  Given the amount of money that we are talking about with expensive books and the cost of grading these expensive books, CGC should offer different slab designs for different book values.  Surely a $5000 book deserves a much more secure slab design than the $10 book.

For what they charge on high value books, 100% yes.

-bc

[Mikey C]

Chatter about a 9.0 Hulk 181 that he might have done something with. Suggestion that it could have been replaced with one missing a MVS. Good video. 

Edited December 21, 2023 by Mikey C

[drotto]

I know that putting the certificate number on the inner well has been mentioned, and some said it would be expensive or difficult to implement.  If they can use a crimper to put an expiration date on the base of my toothpaste tube, they can use the same crimper technology to put a crimp on the inner well. Or if they can label every food with an expiration date, there is a cheep way to print the certificate number on that well.  It is neither hard or expensive. 

[Prince Namor]

On 12/21/2023 at 7:46 AM, TheLexLuthorCollection said:

I agree that reholders need to be regraded.  I also agree that the slabs need a more secure design.  But isn't it odd that a $3M book has the same slab as a $10 book?  Given the amount of money that we are talking about with expensive books and the cost of grading these expensive books, CGC should offer different slab designs for different book values.  Surely a $5000 book deserves a much more secure slab design than the $10 book.

This.

[Prince Namor]

On 12/21/2023 at 8:41 AM, drotto said:

I know that putting the certificate number on the inner well has been mentioned, and some said it would be expensive or difficult to implement.  If they can use a crimper to put an expiration date on the base of my toothpaste tube, they can use the same crimper technology to put a crimp on the inner well. Or if they can label every food with an expiration date, there is a cheep way to print the certificate number on that well.  It is neither hard or expensive. 

Wouldn't Blackstone have to approve or disapprove of these moves? What do we know about them as a company?

[comicginger1789]

Has anyone at CGC acknowledged this? I haven’t checked to see if Mike has followed this thread but it all does reek of an issue in the reholder process.

Now, I have a random low value comic that I was gifted and it’s in the older slab that many of these reholders had. If I could prove that I can remove said book, replace with a similar but slightly lower grade book and still get the 8.5 without CGC noticing when I submit as a regolder, would someone then acknowledge the issue? Because I’m happy to take on such a mission if it means preventing this potential level of scam from happening 

[Prince Namor]

On 12/21/2023 at 8:53 AM, comicginger1789 said:

Has anyone at CGC acknowledged this? I haven’t checked to see if Mike has followed this thread but it all does reek of an issue in the reholder process.

Now, I have a random low value comic that I was gifted and it’s in the older slab that many of these reholders had. If I could prove that I can remove said book, replace with a similar but slightly lower grade book and still get the 8.5 without CGC noticing when I submit as a regolder, would someone then acknowledge the issue? Because I’m happy to take on such a mission if it means preventing this potential level of scam from happening 

Right now CGC is probably looking at this as a speculation that has merit, but wants to keep it from becoming a 'villagers with pitchforks and torches' moment until they can ascertain that there truly IS something there. WE can see there's something there and THEY may even see there's something there, but with a company this size - lawyers will have to be conferred with and whatever decision is made will have to be PR approved by... whoever does it for this company.

Pretty soon we should get Mike in here saying, 'CGC is aware of what's been stated here and is looking into it. We want to do everything we can to maintain the trust and standards you've come to expect from the World's Greatest 3rd party blah, blah, blah.'

[comicginger1789]

Fair enough. I mean I’m happy to partake in an experiment if it will cause them to take note (keeping in mind that I would destroy the reholder of the wrong comic should it pass through to keep my own integrity as a collector/buyer/seller via video)

[Prince Namor]

On 12/21/2023 at 9:01 AM, comicginger1789 said:

Fair enough. I mean I’m happy to partake in an experiment if it will cause them to take note (keeping in mind that I would destroy the reholder of the wrong comic should it pass through to keep my own integrity as a collector/buyer/seller via video)

I would be careful of any type of experiment like that. Regardless of the size of the company they usually don't take kindly to that type of experiment if it makes them look negligent. 

We'd all LOVE to see it, but... you wouldn't want to hurt your standing with CGC over it. 

[drotto]

On 12/20/2023 at 7:46 PM, TheLexLuthorCollection said:

I agree that reholders need to be regraded.  I also agree that the slabs need a more secure design.  But isn't it odd that a $3M book has the same slab as a $10 book?  Given the amount of money that we are talking about with expensive books and the cost of grading these expensive books, CGC should offer different slab designs for different book values.  Surely a $5000 book deserves a much more secure slab design than the $10 book.

Would it be practical to put a "clip" around the edge of each side of the holder, that would break with any tampering, in addition to the sonic weld? I know that would mean a redesign. 

Edited December 21, 2023 by drotto

[comicginger1789]

On 12/20/2023 at 9:05 PM, Prince Namor said:

I would be careful of any type of experiment like that. Regardless of the size of the company they usually don't take kindly to that type of experiment if it makes them look negligent. 

We'd all LOVE to see it, but... you wouldn't want to hurt your standing with CGC over it. 

Yeah I don’t want that. Not that I use them a ton to grade stuff but I enjoy these threads a lot 

[Mikey C]

I don’t want to believe this is done more than we think but more books are coming to light. 

Edited December 21, 2023 by Mikey C

[comicginger1789]

On 12/20/2023 at 9:15 PM, Mikey C said:

I don’t want to believe this is done more than we think but more books are coming to light. 

It probably isn’t but it does seem like someone started testing it and then perfected it.

Again I havent had time to go back in this thread to find out but did the buyers of these two mega jeweller variant sales come forth? I’m intrigued to see how they feel about the books they got….or if the sales themselves were legit. I mean 4-5 times for a mark jeweller seems crazy but then again us collectors can be just that 

[comicginger1789]

And….has anyone bothered to message this seller? Ask a couple innocent questions? If not something I would consider doing if no one has…..

[D Stuart]

The plot thickens... again: