ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[mrd160]

I don’t know if anyone else has said this, but my guess is he swapping out the labels not the actual inner well. It just seems a lot easier to pull out a thin piece of paper at the top of the slab than an entire inner well and then he sends the book in for reholder

Edited December 23, 2023 by mrd160

[D2]

On 12/23/2023 at 1:35 PM, VintageComics said:

For the public record, I've notified Mike about my own post and asked him to not lock the thread in case he was considering it. 

Apologies for the distractions from my end, but it takes more than one person to derail a thread in this way and I'm going to do my part to keep it on track. 

Always causing trouble…

I can’t imagine a series of grown men, would take their time to target you in negative light.

The simple idea that, men, in their 50s, 60s, and 70s… have nothing else better to do than get involved in online bickering matches with people they don’t like, sounds impossible to me.

In the history of the internet, this has never happened before.

There is just, no way, grown men on a comic book forum, would ever, EVER act like children. 

[D2]

I do want to point out that, the waste of time on these pages was annoying. 

 

It was really disappointing to try and read this thread guys.

 

I’m serious.

 

This sucked, skimming through all the .

 

Some ‘community’.

[Terry JSA]

On 12/23/2023 at 2:16 PM, D2 said:

I do want to point out that, the waste of time on these pages was annoying. 

 

It was really disappointing to try and read this thread guys.

 

I’m serious.

 

This sucked, skimming through all the .

 

Some ‘community’.

Tell me about it. 

[ThothAmon]

On 12/23/2023 at 2:12 PM, mrd160 said:

I don’t know if anyone else has said this, but my guess is he swapping out the labels not the actual inner well. It just seems a lot easier to pull out a thin piece of paper at the top of the slab than an entire inner well and then he sends the book in for reholder

Can’t see this. Remember hes had to tamper with the original 9.8 to remove the inner sleeve/well/original comic. Fraud comic in its original inner sleeve/well/original comic then slid in. Label switch would be riskier and unnecessary. 

Edited December 23, 2023 by ThothAmon

[OJ Pimpson]

On 12/23/2023 at 10:35 AM, VintageComics said:

For the public record, I've notified Mike about my own post and asked him to not lock the thread in case he was considering it. 

Apologies for the distractions from my end, but it takes more than one person to derail a thread in this way and I'm going to do my part to keep it on track. 

Lock this thread? Zero chance that would ever be seriously considered. If they shut down this conversation while at the same time remaining completely silent would for all intents and purposes confirm everyone’s worst fears. And at that point they might as well make CGC.com a redirect link for cbcs 

[Heronext]

I remember the good old days in this thread when we were talking about sonic welders.

[paqart]

On 12/23/2023 at 1:50 PM, BrashL said:

It’s because there’s nothing to do at this point except wait to see how CGC is going to make this right. I don’t see how anyone can be comfortable buying a blue label Hulk 181 or other high value book until we get some clarity though.  

"High value" in this case is $3.5k-$20k. Have we seen any examples outside this value range? This may be the seller's financial limit, because he can't buy the more expensive comics. More likely, the higher value comics don't exist in the volume he relies on to mask his nefarious activities.

[sledgehammer]

On 12/23/2023 at 1:26 PM, paqart said:

"High value" in this case is $3.5k-$20k. Have we seen any examples outside this value range? This may be the seller's financial limit, because he can't buy the more expensive comics. More likely, the higher value comics don't exist in the volume he relies on to mask his nefarious activities.

Part of the advantage of Ebay is that it isn't Heritage and now even comiclink size scans.

The ability to scrutinize more, is not helpful to him.

[Heronext]

On 12/23/2023 at 2:28 PM, sledgehammer said:

Part of the advantage of Ebay is that it isn't Heritage and now even comiclink size scans.

The ability to scrutinize more, is not helpful to him.

ComicLink is where scrutiny goes to die

[sledgehammer]

On 12/23/2023 at 1:32 PM, Heronext said:

On 12/23/2023 at 1:28 PM, sledgehammer said:

Part of the advantage of Ebay is that it isn't Heritage and now even comiclink size scans.

The ability to scrutinize more, is not helpful to him.

ComicLink is where scrutiny goes to die

Pretty nice scans.

https://www.comiclink.com/itemdetail.asp?back=%2Fcgcsubsection.asp%3F_SORT%3DYES%26returning%3D1%26id%3D1059%26Graded%3D%26f1%3DListDate%26ODire1%3DDESC%26f2%3Di.IssueNumber%2C%2Bi.VolumeNumber%26ODire2%3DASC%26f3%3Di.Condition%26ODire3%3DASC&id=1742635

[VintageComics]

On 12/23/2023 at 1:57 PM, jcjames said:

On 12/23/2023 at 1:09 PM, skybolt said:

I'm not sure there's anything there. The 7.0 could just be a straight resub. 

The JIM is clearly the same book, different cert#s. 

How does that prove anything in regards to this thread?

Regrading a book gives you a new certification number. If anything, it disproves the "new label / reholder" theory which keeps the same cert number with the book, which means this book was likely regraded and therefore inspected by CGC. 

It was most likely a resub or a crack and press, which has been going on for as long as CGC has been around. 

[Heronext]

On 12/23/2023 at 2:34 PM, sledgehammer said:

Pretty nice scans.

https://www.comiclink.com/itemdetail.asp?back=%2Fcgcsubsection.asp%3F_SORT%3DYES%26returning%3D1%26id%3D1059%26Graded%3D%26f1%3DListDate%26ODire1%3DDESC%26f2%3Di.IssueNumber%2C%2Bi.VolumeNumber%26ODire2%3DASC%26f3%3Di.Condition%26ODire3%3DASC&id=1742635

 No back covers scans and no GPA reporting

[VintageComics]

On 12/23/2023 at 2:26 PM, paqart said:

More likely, the higher value comics don't exist in the volume he relies on to mask his nefarious activities.

Higher value books, which as you already mentioned exist in far lower numbers also receive far more scrutiny than lower value books, from buyers, the general public, from CGC, from auction houses. 

[VintageComics]

On 12/23/2023 at 2:32 PM, Heronext said:

ComicLink is where scrutiny goes to die

This is unfair. Comiclink has a great reputation and if I had to bet the house, I'd bet that CGC is working with anyone who may have dealt with this person to gather information. 

Just try to think logically: It is highly likely the auction houses and big dealers are co-operating on this front. 

[Heronext]

On 12/23/2023 at 2:44 PM, VintageComics said:

This is unfair. Comiclink has a great reputation and if I had to bet the house, I'd bet that CGC is working with anyone who may have dealt with this person to gather information. 

Just try to think logically: It is highly likely the auction houses and big dealers are co-operating on this front. 

See my previous comment 

[mephistopheles]

On 12/23/2023 at 3:10 PM, drotto said:

Be careful calling some of these books that are clearly the same, as all part of this swapping business.  Some of those may be CPR, and CGC considers those legitimate.  Just most people forget the have CGC remove old unused certs from the census.

The problem isn't that books are the same, the problem is that the CGC cert# on verifiably different books is the same.

[drotto]

On 12/23/2023 at 2:51 PM, mephistopheles said:

The problem isn't that books are the same, the problem is that the CGC cert# on verifiably different books is the same.

Sorry, did not read every cert number.

[minutekev@50]

I don't collect Jewelers but is anyone else fighting the urge to crack their slabs and make sure all the pages and mess are there?

[sledgehammer]

On 12/23/2023 at 1:38 PM, Heronext said:

 No back covers scans and no GPA reporting

True. Usually. If someone isn't trying to hide something, the option (as in this Hulk 181) is there.

Personally, I hate white page books with yellow back covers.