ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[Comics]

On 12/23/2023 at 3:56 PM, agamoto said:

To those trying to identify who Briva3/Zanglor is, it's not necessary, his identity is known already, but it's being kept from the public until there's some statement from CGC or some kind of investigation or indictment. From my perspective at least, all of this digging is to try and determine how deep the wounds made might be. 

Yup - and honestly with what I have seen I feel this specific scam doesn't go back as far or as deep as people are thinking. Is it bad? Absolutely. Is it thousands of books? I don't think so. Personally I feel its in the dozens. I know you have seen pretty much what I have so you might have another perspective but...

[agamoto]

On 12/23/2023 at 4:26 PM, s-dali said:

I realize this is a far fetched idea, but how about putting matching microchips with the certification number and possibly a picture of the comic on the inner holder and on the label? They are already taking pictures. The use of microchips is a technology that they could implement very quickly with no retooling of the current case or inner well. Then all that CGC would have to do is to make sure that the the two microchips match and that the inner holder isn't damaged. 

This is the way forward... A pair of thin NFC tags that also incorporate q-codes. Cost per application can be less than a buck. One sticker adhered to inner well, one for the paper label. You can scan the slab with an iphone and verify the inner well and label match. 

[agamoto]

On 12/23/2023 at 4:37 PM, Comics said:

Yup - and honestly with what I have seen I feel this specific scam doesn't go back as far or as deep as people are thinking. Is it bad? Absolutely. Is it thousands of books? I don't think so. Personally I feel its in the dozens. I know you have seen pretty much what I have so you might have another perspective but...

My perspective is that it's a hell of a loophole, and the only reason this guy got caught is because he got greedy and tried his trick with a very high profile book that subject matter experts would have had their eyes peeled to. Greed got the best of him. Had he stuck to Hulk 181's, Secret Wars 8's, New Mutants 98's and ASM 300's, he likely never would have been caught. Where there is smoke, there is fire. There is undoubtedly others out there who have been pulling the same trick who just weren't dumb enough to leave as many identifiable fingerprints behind. Instead, he left a crumb trail of poor grammar and writing that revealed questionable activity for over 12 years. The other thing is how often this guy resold the same books, how the hell did eBay not recognize the obvious fraud going on there?

[Taxi Driver]

On 12/23/2023 at 3:56 PM, agamoto said:

To those trying to identify who Briva3/Zanglor is, it's not necessary, his identity is known already, but it's being kept from the public until there's some statement from CGC or some kind of investigation or indictment. From my perspective at least, all of this digging is to try and determine how deep the wounds made might be. 

See that's the issue! I get it we want to do our due diligence, however, every day we don't expose this guy to the MASSES, someone is probably getting taken! The evidence is there, the guy needs to be called out. 

[drotto]

On 12/23/2023 at 6:56 PM, bc said:

Don't understand why we want them stamping id#'s anywhere near our books with an industrial machine? They purchase the cases from a supplier and shove a comic and a label on it. Trying to keep track of the entire chain of custody, while a noble idea, is highly impractical for our cherished collectibles. 

Might as well ask them to install a wood chipper near the receiving department to process the excess shipping material.

-bc

Laser etching would do the trick.  Cheap, fast, and if set up correctly would have no effect on the book. 

[bc]

We do laser etching for assets at a large hospital chain. While economical to create, the logistics to create a pure chain of custody is likely a major overhaul for CGC.

-bc

[drotto]

On 12/23/2023 at 7:45 PM, agamoto said:

My perspective is that it's a hell of a loophole, and the only reason this guy got caught is because he got greedy and tried his trick with a very high profile book that subject matter experts would have had their eyes peeled to. Greed got the best of him. Had he stuck to Hulk 181's, Secret Wars 8's, New Mutants 98's and ASM 300's, he likely never would have been caught. Where there is smoke, there is fire. There is undoubtedly others out there who have been pulling the same trick who just weren't dumb enough to leave as many identifiable fingerprints behind. Instead, he left a crumb trail of poor grammar and writing that revealed questionable activity for over 12 years. The other thing is how often this guy resold the same books, how the hell did eBay not recognize the obvious fraud going on there?

Agree, he got caught when he tried a book that has 4 to 5 times the value of its more common variant with the MJ insert. I think he worked his way up with things like the MVS, and the newstand editions, once he got confident he started going for the rarer and bigger money stuff.

 

As for how eBay missed it is because they were not looking.  They get thousands of new listings every day, so it is very easy to get things past.  Only once multiple bad reviews start piling up do they take notice.

[drotto]

On 12/23/2023 at 7:38 PM, agamoto said:

This is the way forward... A pair of thin NFC tags that also incorporate q-codes. Cost per application can be less than a buck. One sticker adhered to inner well, one for the paper label. You can scan the slab with an iphone and verify the inner well and label match. 

RFID chips are another cheap alternative.  If they can afford to put those in every credit card and Comicon badge, they can stick one to the back of labels. 

Edited December 24, 2023 by drotto

[Comics]

On 12/23/2023 at 4:45 PM, agamoto said:

My perspective is that it's a hell of a loophole, and the only reason this guy got caught is because he got greedy and tried his trick with a very high profile book that subject matter experts would have had their eyes peeled to. Greed got the best of him. Had he stuck to Hulk 181's, Secret Wars 8's, New Mutants 98's and ASM 300's, he likely never would have been caught. Where there is smoke, there is fire. There is undoubtedly others out there who have been pulling the same trick who just weren't dumb enough to leave as many identifiable fingerprints behind. Instead, he left a crumb trail of poor grammar and writing that revealed questionable activity for over 12 years. The other thing is how often this guy resold the same books, how the hell did eBay not recognize the obvious fraud going on there?

My thought re that - I feel that eBay kicked him off for some reason (that's why the Zaglor ID doesn't lead to an inactive seller but to nothing) and they 'let' him back on with a new ID or maybe a few. So I think a lot of this is going to fall on them. I saw that @NewWorldOrder had one of the scammers previous IDs on his block list (corner142) so maybe they can remember why???

[drporkchop]

..

 

 

Edited December 24, 2023 by chrispark76
duplicate

[Comics]

On 12/23/2023 at 5:02 PM, Comics said:

My thought re that - I feel that eBay kicked him off for some reason (that's why the Zaglor ID doesn't lead to an inactive seller but to nothing) and they 'let' him back on with a new ID or maybe a few. So I think a lot of this is going to fall on them. I saw that @NewWorldOrder had one of the scammers previous IDs on his block list (corner142) so maybe they can remember why???

Also I just want this thread to get to 100 pages before I have to start making dinner for the fam...

[Heronext]

On 12/23/2023 at 7:58 PM, drotto said:

RFID chips are another cheap alternative.  If they can afford to put those in every credit card an Comicon badge, they can stick one to the back of labels.

I have an idea - radioactive microchamber paper

[drporkchop]

On 12/23/2023 at 12:49 PM, sledgehammer said:

Interesting.

I found a "B. Riva", in Forest Hills NY,  but that one is 93 years old.

His first name is Brees, which i found from the box label when he shipped me a Hulk 340 9.8 i won on Oct 24, 2023. When i received the book I found that the book had 4 or 5 color breaking spine ticks along it's black spine and was disappointed that this book was able to be graded a 9.8 by CGC. The book was at most a borderline 9.0 or 9.2 at most.

Luckily Brees allowed refunds on his ebay auctions, and I was able to return and get a partial refund (lost around $200 Cdn due to exchange rate and shipping costs). I tried looking for his address, but the book was shipped back to Ebay Global Shipping hub location at Glendale Heights IL, which was then forwarded to his Forest Hills home.

Fortunately I feel lucky that i was able to recoup almost 90% of the book, unlike others here who were scammed thousands for much higher books. It looks like he was not just swapping out golden age books, or MJ newsstands, but also common books like Hulk 340s.

I messaged him for refund and you can see in the ebay history how he tried to justify his scam by saying lots of CGC 9.8s have spine ticks. Read below.

[drotto]

On 12/23/2023 at 8:04 PM, Heronext said:

I have an idea - radioactive microchamber paper

OOOh, how about the microchips they inject into people when they get vaccines.  

[skybolt]

I don't know. The more I look at this guy's past history, the more I get the sense he's not this world class master in opening and resealing slabs, marrying inserts consistently without detection or suspicion by CGC, etc. The reason I say this is that based on what Agamoto recently posted, the whole shill biding thing is really odd. Most of the ending bids are all over the place. Not sure what he was accomplishing there. Also, even his recent photos from listings from the past couple of years are really amateurish. Heck, in most of them there's this awful glare that almost looks like the books have major bends. Also, his hand and some of his face are showing up in practically every photo. I'm sorry to say this, but in my opinion I believe this guy had major help in pulling off something like this.

[Nick Furious]

On 12/23/2023 at 7:07 PM, skybolt said:

I get the sense he's not this world class master in opening and resealing slabs, marrying inserts consistently without detection or suspicion by CGC

Why do people keep mentioning the idea of marrying inserts?  I haven't seen any reason to speculate that...but it is a long thread.  Where does that idea come from?  

[Stefan_W]

On 12/23/2023 at 8:07 PM, skybolt said:

I don't know. The more I look at this guy's past history, the more I get the sense he's not this world class master in opening and resealing slabs, marrying inserts consistently without detection or suspicion by CGC, etc. The reason I say this is that based on what Agamoto recently posted, the whole shill biding thing is really odd. Most of the ending bids are all over the place. Not sure what he was accomplishing there. Also, even his recent photos from listings from the past couple of years are really amateurish. Heck, in most of them there's this awful glare that almost looks like the books have major bends. Also, his hand and some of his face are showing up in practically every photo. I'm sorry to say this, but in my opinion I believe this guy had major help in pulling off something like this.

I think the idea of criminal masterminds is overblown. Most crime (and this is one, if you think of it in terms of defrauding people) is unsophisticated and not particularly well thought out. I would default to: this individual found an angle, figured out a way to capitalize on the angle, conned an unknown amount of people with it, and then was eventually found out. We are dealing with Joe Pesci's character in Home Alone rather than Magneto. 

[brute_nm]

On 12/23/2023 at 6:18 PM, Nick Furious said:

Why do people keep mentioning the idea of marrying inserts?  I haven't seen any reason to speculate that...but it is a long thread.  Where does that idea come from?  

I'm not sure about marrying inserts but Automatic Comics found a strong possibility of marrying a single wrap:

It's different because it got a new cert #, which means it was freshly graded, not reholdered like his other (alleged) scams. So for it to get a blue label from a fresh grade, it would've had to have a wrap married in to complete the book.

[brute_nm]

On 12/23/2023 at 6:24 PM, Stefan_W said:

I think the idea of criminal masterminds is overblown. Most crime (and this is one, if you think of it in terms of defrauding people) is unsophisticated and not particularly well thought out. I would default to: this individual found an angle, figured out a way to capitalize on the angle, conned an unknown amount of people with it, and then was eventually found out. We are dealing with Joe Pesci's character in Home Alone rather than Magneto. 

Joe Pesci in Home Alone, not Joe Pesci in Casino 

[skybolt]

On 12/23/2023 at 7:18 PM, Nick Furious said:

Why do people keep mentioning the idea of marrying inserts?  I haven't seen any reason to speculate that...but it is a long thread.  Where does that idea come from?  

In addition to the re-holdered books, he also appears to have had some good fortunes with sending some green labeled books with missing MVS or inserts and getting a blue label via straight grading. I can't imagine CGC missing these major defects unless he was marrying inserts from other lower graded books.