ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[AbsoluteCarnage]

I've been looking myself. Keep at it more people looking into this the better. Look for qualified books sold 1-2 moths back and roll from there. Possibly purple restored books Who really knows what's going on?

Edited December 24, 2023 by AbsoluteCarnage

[agamoto]

We can add "Take a close look, Zoom in and decide for yourself." to the list of key phrases used in his/her listings. 402 listings found, they're all from the suspect, dating back to July 2012.

"It is nearly impossible to find Raw Copies of these that are worth grading." Is another one. 512 hits on that phrase.

"The book you see is the book you get!!Good Luck Bidding!!!!" 150 listings using that phrase.

This time, lots of raw books in the hits above, and many examples of the suspect selling the same book multiple times. 

The hits also fill some time gaps between 2014 and 2016 I couldn't explain.

[agamoto]

Let's examine ASM 194. I've included links to the cert verification page, added pics and comments when the book and the grade don't jive and found one for sure scam book. 

Some of these books really should not have been given a 9.8 

16 sales since Sep, 2022

4074245001 Sep 19 2022 $4000   

4109596003 Oct 20 2022 $3950

4152956002 Dec 16 2022 $4995 - We have a hit here... This book was "sold" by the seller Dec 16 2022 w/o the Mark Jewelers designation on the label. This book has a new holder with the MJ indicator. 100% a different comic.

 

4130849002 Jan 16 2023 $3950

4121886001 Feb 13 2023 $3252 - Submitted with 4121886002 below.

4146028003 Apr 4 2023 $3665

4121886002 Apr 11, 2023 $3718 - Note, submitted alongside 4121886001

4199541002 May 22, 2023 $3218

4167224003 Jun 5, 2023 $2755

4235257002 Jun 13, 2023 $2808 - Ink loss above Amazing and Marvel Comics Group, hell of a wavy book. Slight Miswrap, distrib ink stain back top.

4265040002 Aug 17, 2023 $3450 - Apparent cbc on front middle spine, scuffs on front right edge, large stress line on back bottom staple. Ding to back top left corner.

4261360005 Aug 28, 2023 $3201

4301294002 Sep 20 2023 $2400 - Top edge wear, miscut, possible ding on bottom of UPC

4301294002 Oct 4, 2023 $2226 - Same issue as sold on Sep 20th

There was one other sale in 2016, cert 0284402016, an 8.5 that sold for $100, however I cannot find that cert in the census db. The book doesn't appear like any of the others above.

Edited December 24, 2023 by agamoto

[Get Marwood & I]

On 12/23/2023 at 6:15 PM, VintageComics said:

Several others have been taking mild swipes in this thread at me as well (thothamon, GetMarwood etc).

Aw, I'm sorry to see you include me in that summary Roy. They were just little jokes, nothing vindictive. We should be able to laugh at ourselves, and recognise our foibles, wouldn't you say? I thought you'd find them funny too. Anyway, sorry if I upset you, no offence meant and a very Merry Christmas to you 

[agamoto]

How about Secret Wars 8?

411517004 Nov 9, 2022 $1784

4154321006 Dec 20, 2022 $635.99

4129851004 - Item cannot be found in CGC database. Jan 3 2023 $1375 Quite the ding to the bottom left corner. Could be a reflection.

4137132001 Jan 23, 2023, $735

4199541006 May 8, 2023, $1876 

4221342006 - May 22, 2023, $1550

4206492005 - Jun 5, 2023 $1925 - Canadian Price Variant

4245189001 - Jun 12, 2023 $1575

4261360003 - Jul 31, 2023 $1710 - Amazing how the edge wear on the top still allowed in 9.8

4154321007 - Aug 2, 2023 $2128 - Another 9.8 Canadian Price Variant?! 

Despite some rather questionable 9.8's based on the images I've seen and the grader's notes all these appear to be legit.

This is just eBay though, who knows how many have sold over insta, other auction houses, through facebook waffles, etc. 

Edited December 24, 2023 by agamoto

[agamoto]

Found the donor book for the switched 194

The original seller that sold it to the scammer was nice enough to focus on the books defects which make it clearly a match.

https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/4134002001/

 

 

[agamoto]

Ok, I need help getting my head around this one... 

The original 9.8, cert # 4152956002, without the Mark Jewelers designation, was sold, by the suspect on eBay 12/16/2022 for $4995 - This one appears to be a real nice 9.8 , probably legit, but again, this is a book that the seller sold to himself.

Here's what that looked like again.

When we look that book up on the census, it's an obvious swap from the one that was imaged by CGC. The grading date for this book at CGC is 11/09/22, BEFORE the book above was "sold" by the suspect a month later.

He had to have used pre-existing images of the book when it was still in the old case for his Dec auction. 

A search of other MJ 194's revealed the donor book, A 9.2 grade Cert 4134002001 lots of pics of that in the previous message.

4134002001 was graded on 1/24/2023 and sold on eBay July 1, 2023 for $1450

The eBay ad for that one doesn't seem to have any resemblance whatsoever to the suspects other ads, the background is different, the camera angles, everything..

So the question I have now... What friggin' book is currently sitting inside 4152956002, because it sure as hell isn't the one pictured on the census page and it can't be the one that was in it originally.

That all said, the beige carpet background in the 4134002001 ad sure looks damn familiar. 

 

This just gets more and more strange.

 

Edited December 24, 2023 by agamoto

[agamoto]

On 12/21/2023 at 3:22 PM, WestcoastDAVEngers said:

I need some help here just cause my glasses wearing stupid eyes can't confirm.

The asm 194 9.8 Briva sold on 10/3/23 and the second set of pics is a 9.6 that sold on ebay on 4/29/23 

Wrap is the same, notch below the bar code is the same, the mark on back is the same (although it does appear on at least 1 other book) 

but the giveaway to me is the top, you can see in the hi-res photos that it has some red spray, and you can faintly see it in the 9.6 - BUT the white notch is in the same spot above the "CS" in Marvel comics group

 

100% the same book, but could be a legit CPR. 

[trademarkcomics]

On 12/24/2023 at 2:50 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

Aw, I'm sorry to see you include me in that summary Roy. They were just little jokes, nothing vindictive. We should be able to laugh at ourselves, and recognise our foibles, wouldn't you say? I thought you'd find them funny too. Anyway, sorry if I upset you, no offence meant and a very Merry Christmas to you 

Every time I see him called "Roy", it reminds me of Quigley Down Under, Die Hard and Knight & Day*. 

 

*Pretty sure than covers all movies with a main character called "Roy" ...and only one of them were actually named "Roy".  Oh, wait this is totally OFF-TOPIC. Sorry, Roy! 

[Steven Valdez]

On 12/25/2023 at 12:15 AM, trademarkcomics said:

Every time I see him called "Roy", it reminds me of Quigley Down Under, Die Hard and Knight & Day*. 

 

*Pretty sure than covers all movies with a main character called "Roy" ...and only one of them were actually named "Roy".  Oh, wait this is totally OFF-TOPIC. Sorry, Roy! 

It's not off topic when Roy IS the topic!!

[Nick Furious]

On 12/24/2023 at 6:12 AM, agamoto said:

A search of other MJ 194's revealed the donor book, A 9.2 grade Cert 4134002001 lots of pics of that in the previous message.

4134002001 was graded on 1/24/2023 and sold on eBay July 1, 2023 for $1450

The eBay ad for that one doesn't seem to have any resemblance whatsoever to the suspects other ads, the background is different, the camera angles, everything..

So the question I have now... What friggin' book is currently sitting inside 4152956002, because it sure as hell isn't the one pictured on the census page and it can't be the one that was in it originally.

That all said, the beige carpet background in the 4134002001 ad sure looks damn familiar. 

I'm not really following how the 02001 cert book is necessarily tied to the 6002 book?  Clearly the 6002 was swapped out and got relabeled as a MJ 9.8 (The OG scheme that started the thread), but the 02001 looks to me like a different book altogether.  

[comicwiz]

I know it was mentioned before in this thread (I think @Buzzetta posted about the feature being taken away, another nod to how fantastic feeBay has become to help enable deception and fraud) but if anyone knows a way to look-up any past account names or aliases, please post and tag me. Best to all for the holiday season!

Edited January 5 by comicwiz

[Buzzetta]

On 12/24/2023 at 9:07 AM, comicwiz said:

I know it was mentioned before in this thread (I think @Buzzetta posted about the feature being taken away, another nod to how fantastic feeBay has become to help enable deception and fraud) but if anyone knows a way to look-up any past account names or aliases briva3 has used, please post and tag me. Best to all for the holiday season!

The feature is reported to have been removed circa 2021. 

[Gaard]

On 12/24/2023 at 9:14 AM, Buzzetta said:

The feature is reported to have been removed circa 2021. 

why?

[Buzzetta]

On 12/24/2023 at 9:15 AM, Gaard said:

why?

I dunno 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

I wasn’t consulted on this.  
 

My guess?  Too many people were using blatant email addresses making it possible to reach sellers directly.  (Me for example) so when you had to change the name, you could still tell buyers that asked to go through your name history if they requested to contact you outside of eBay.  The history of those email addresses would always stay until the feature was disabled.

In other cases there were certain accounts that had prior names attached that the seller may not have wanted buyers to be privy to or were inappropriate to their vision and business model.  I remember we joked about a prior name a certain comic dealer held at one point that showed up in their eBay name history. 

 

[skybolt]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this guy's shill bids going back to 2011. So if someone creates a shill account, wins a book, leaves positive feedback, but then never pays for the books, I'm assuming the seller will keep the positive feedback and just relist the book. Perhaps he needed to build up all these accounts with positive reviews to make it seem legit. I don't know.

Edited December 24, 2023 by skybolt

[comicwiz]

Nice job @agamoto! I juxtaposed the two for better comparison, and include the cert data as well as sales dates:

9.2 - 4134002001 was graded on 1/24/2023 and sold on eBay July 1, 2023 for $1450 (Newsstand, MJ insert)

9.8 - 4152956002 was graded 11/09/2022 and sold on eBay Dec 16 2022 $4995 (Newsstand, MJ insert)

9.2 Certification number:

9.8 Certification number:

 

[Nick Furious]

On 12/24/2023 at 8:24 AM, skybolt said:

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this guy's shill bids going back to 2011. So if someone creates a shill account, wins a book, leaves a positive message, but then never pays for the books, I'm assuming the seller will keep the positive feedback and just relist the book. Perhaps he needed to build up all these accounts with positive reviews to make it seem legit. I don't know.

Shill bidding can also serve the purpose of putting a reserve price on the auction and to some degree manipulating public perception of FMV. 

[comicwiz]

On 12/24/2023 at 9:37 AM, Nick Furious said:

Shill bidding can also serve the purpose of putting a reserve price on the auction and to some degree manipulating public perception of FMV. 

Combined with rampant bid retractions, you now have the perfect storm for driving prices up, setting record sales, and not being on the hook for a cent of it, as long as you have a method of swapping books, changing certs, and listing that item under the guise of a completely different account, or in this case, a shiny new label and holder. Nice, safer hobby, thanks to a TPG asleep behind the wheel, and feeBay, whose execs are too busy to stalk, terrorize and threaten people who criticize their site. 

Edited December 24, 2023 by comicwiz

[Nick Furious]

On 12/24/2023 at 8:37 AM, comicwiz said:

9.2 - 4134002001 was graded on 1/24/2023 and sold on eBay July 1, 2023 for $1450 (Newsstand, MJ insert)

9.8 - 4152956002 was graded 11/09/2022 and sold on eBay Dec 16 2022 $4995 (Newsstand, MJ insert)

Is it typical for a Cert starting with 413 to be graded after a Cert starting with 415?  I'm not up to speed on the numbering system.