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ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC
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Started by spidermanbeyond,

9,028 posts in this topic

BrashL

BrashL

Posted
Posted (edited)

https://youtu.be/vONa3k9gnVg?si=RnyOIRUjOpNgksCr

This is looking like more of a disaster by the day. This isn’t one guy and a few books. This is a fundamental and apparently easily exploited flaw in the slab. This goes beyond reholdering as well. This might be why a response is taking so long, how do you even begin with damage control?

 

Edit: No clue how to embed video. 

Edited by BrashL
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agamoto

agamoto

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On 12/27/2023 at 6:53 AM, Ares said:

I watch him Weekly. 

Interesting shows and unboxing he puts on

a few minutes in, he doesn't have a very good grasp of what's going on, and it's based on some other youtube clips he's watched. He's a goodfellow, but with a situation as serious as this one, he and everyone on his level should be reading every single post in this thread.

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brute_nm

brute_nm

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On 12/27/2023 at 7:51 AM, Mikey C said:

This is not 100% a custom label scam. The New Mutants 98 9.8 MJ he got put into a new case had a new, regular blue label. This was early in this thread and the 2nd book that was caught by the great members here. So not everything is about the custom label. Didn’t want that to get lost in all the discussion about this just being a custom label loophole. 

I wonder if there's a pattern. Like what if his custom label submissions are the lower grade (or qualified) book swaps, while his normal label submissions are new grades on the "cert # donor" books.

Maybe we don't have a large enough sample size yet to see a pattern. If we could see his entire submission history (like CGC can), we could more quickly identify stuff like this. Maybe they're looking into it?

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DoctorWyoming1

DoctorWyoming1

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Posted (edited)
On 12/27/2023 at 8:56 AM, agamoto said:

a few minutes in, he doesn't have a very good grasp of what's going on, and it's based on some other youtube clips he's watched. He's a goodfellow, but with a situation as serious as this one, he and everyone on his level should be reading every single post in this thread.

He’s helpful if you want to learn how to clean and press books, otherwise it’s beat to stick with primary sources.

Edited by DoctorWyoming1
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agamoto

agamoto

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Posted
On 12/27/2023 at 6:55 AM, BrashL said:

https://youtu.be/vONa3k9gnVg?si=RnyOIRUjOpNgksCr

This is looking like more of a disaster by the day. This isn’t one guy and a few books. This is a fundamental and apparently easily exploited flaw in the slab. This goes beyond reholdering as well. This might be why a response is taking so long, how do you even begin with damage control?

Here comes the science! 

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comicwiz

comicwiz

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For the sake of cohesion, I'd like to repost two of the Green to Blue Hulk 181's - these two had initially been drawn out to several links, and I quite liked the two post flow from yesterdays. So bear with me as I repost these two, as I'm also compiling a master list and would like this all be to be available for quicker reference.

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Steven Valdez

Steven Valdez

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Posted
On 12/28/2023 at 1:25 AM, agamoto said:

He's getting them to apply a 9.8 custom label to a 9.4 book, and he has to be taking advantage of them not regrading the book or opening the inner well or giving any of it much scrutiny at all. He's got to be submitting the 9.4 with a label that indicates it's a 9.8 and counting on them not actually bothering to check.

CGC has to be receiving a book with a 9.8 label and certification that matches a book they sent out. It seems the majority of these swaps since mid 2022 have involved custom labels. So my assumption is he's found a way to replace the standard label in a case using a simple sonic cutter/welder to maintain the integrity of the case as best as possible to avoid scrutiny. He's not submitting these books to CGC raw, so it's possible that he's resealing and then smashing the area where he broke into the case and complaining of mechanical error upon receipt once he's received his legit 9.8 book and swapped the label with the 9.4. There's no way to be sure, at least with his submissions prior to 8/1/2023, if the other books in his submissions are also custom labels, and I would actually suspect they are not.

He'd then have to ship the books back and the doctored case would then be forwarded to a department whose sole purpose is to crack out, replace label and re-encapsulate only with no regrading, just a simple label check. I don't believe for a minute that the book is being removed from its inner well or being pressed, regraded, etc. otherwise it absolutely would require a conspiracy from within to pull off given all the examples of obvious lower grade books getting passed off as 9.0+ books.

Another alternative is that he is doing it all at home with a sonic welder capable of full case seals which cost around $5K to 10K, including the cost of the aluminum molds required to perform the seal. He'd also need an exact copy of the CGC case to pull it off as well, or something good enough to pass muster at CGC. I've seen links to alibaba cases, and if they truly are a match for CGC's case, then honestly ALL bets are off and pretty much anyone with $5-10K could be doing the same thing. He could be requesting a label change, or resealing the donor book with the higher grade label at home and then smashing/cracking any edges to hide any imperfections... My question would be how the heck could he be doing that level of trickery over and over again w/o anyone appearing to catch on. 

 

So, there's this:

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Children-39S-Books-Comic-Slab-Ultrasonic_1600491875113.html

1 - 9 pieces
USD 1,900.00
ScreenShot2023-12-28at2_04_10am.thumb.png.8ed70e331283f894f66d352c526188b9.png
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Steven Valdez

Steven Valdez

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Posted
On 12/28/2023 at 2:04 AM, agamoto said:

Great video... RIck from immaculate has demonstrated that some heat applied to the ball joints on the bottom of the case allow for the "tamper proof" pillars can be popped off w/o a problem. 

CGC, you need a new case design, right now. 

Well, that's a crucial bit of news.

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MAR1979

MAR1979

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/27/2023 at 9:55 AM, BrashL said:

https://youtu.be/vONa3k9gnVg?si=RnyOIRUjOpNgksCr

This is looking like more of a disaster by the day. This isn’t one guy and a few books. This is a fundamental and apparently easily exploited flaw in the slab. This goes beyond reholdering as well. This might be why a response is taking so long, how do you even begin with damage control?

 

Edit: No clue how to embed video. 

A URL that includes "www.youtube.com/watch?" is required for the auto-embed. Here u go:

 

 

 

Edited by MAR1979
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agamoto

agamoto

Posted
Posted
On 12/27/2023 at 7:04 AM, Steven Valdez said:

So, there's this:

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Children-39S-Books-Comic-Slab-Ultrasonic_1600491875113.html

1 - 9 pieces
USD 1,900.00

Cheap, but you have to factor in the cost of the acrylic cases and the aluminum molds used to seal 'em back up. I don't think it's even required now that I've seen what Dr. Rick just pulled off with a heat gun and a little bit of xylene.

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skybolt

skybolt

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Posted
On 12/27/2023 at 8:56 AM, agamoto said:

a few minutes in, he doesn't have a very good grasp of what's going on, and it's based on some other youtube clips he's watched. He's a goodfellow, but with a situation as serious as this one, he and everyone on his level should be reading every single post in this thread.

I felt the same way and turned it off after 10 minutes (especially after he gave credit to Automatic Comics for the Hulk 181 book doh!).

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MAR1979

MAR1979

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/27/2023 at 10:16 AM, agamoto said:

Cheap, but you have to factor in the cost of the acrylic cases and the aluminum molds used to seal 'em back up. I don't think it's even required now that I've seen what Dr. Rick just pulled off with a heat gun and a little bit of xylene.

better only be a little bit and don't spill the bottle on yourself !

Xylene (C8H10) is a colorless, flammable liquid with a sweet odor. Exposure to xylene can irritate the eyes, nose, skin, and throat. Xylene can also cause headaches, dizziness, confusion, loss of muscle coordination, and in high doses, death

Edited by MAR1979
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