ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[RonS2112]

On 12/27/2023 at 11:28 AM, namisgr said:

While I'm far from an apologist for the company, I think CGC is on holiday and so understand why there wouldn't be a formal response.  I'd expect one after the first of the new year.

I'd not keep my expectations too high.  They will likely say something along the lines of, "we're investigationg this, we remain committed to high quality, etc" without providing much in the way of details.  Regardless of the impact this may have on this board and an insular Youtube community, I'd guess that most people who own/sell/buy slabs don't know or care about this scam.  In the end, people who like slabs aren't going to stop deling with them because of this.

[Prince Namor]

On 12/28/2023 at 4:41 AM, VintageComics said:

As someone who submits a lot of books, I can testify that CGC has been inconsistent and you can get overgraded and undergraded books back from CGC. 

On 12/27/2023 at 10:44 AM, VintageComics said:

There are lots of people that spot raw 9.8s and there always has been. Like anything, some people are just better at it than others and high grade collectors tend to be very picky and train their eyes to spot such things. 

[sledgehammer]

On 12/27/2023 at 3:24 PM, uncannyjames said:

Here is another questionable CGC 9.8 Mark Jewelers for sale on ebay that is definitely not a 9.8

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285617050488

That submission is filled with assorted spider man titles from that time period. ASM and WEB. Multiple MJ inserts.

Most of them are pretty normal looking.

To me, it feels like a 9.6/9.8 pre screen.

It doesn't look glaringly bad.

This is another example from the submission.  https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/4355091008/

[Prince Namor]

On 12/28/2023 at 5:45 AM, jsilverjanet said:

The integrity of the case has been lost

in a manner that is simple and easy for most people with little skill to take advantage of

I made this statement earlier in the thread

the result of CGC's lack of QC has made this problem greater than it normally would be

issues with incorrect labeling, poor quality in terms of the case (newton rings), poor shipping practices has increased the # of reholders they have to process thus creating a volume that is difficult for CGC's QC to take the necessary steps to prevent this problem from occurring

if the volume was lower, then more time could be spent inspecting reholders, but because they are getting so many slabs that need to be fixed, they skipped that step in order to keep up with a demand that they themselves created

Stickers!

[Prince Namor]

On 12/28/2023 at 6:28 AM, sledgehammer said:

That submission is filled with assorted spider man titles from that time period. ASM and WEB. Multiple MJ inserts.

Most of them are pretty normal looking.

To me, it feels like a 9.6/9.8 pre screen.

It doesn't look glaringly bad.

This is another example from the submission.  https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/4355091008/

When I used to sell raw comics... no WAY in hell was that ever a 'possible' 9.8. 

If that's a 9.8, CGC is missing a LOT of potential 9.9's and 10's they have out there graded as 9.8

The inconsistency is just grotesque.

[Prince Namor]

On 12/28/2023 at 4:21 AM, VintageComics said:

May as well explain to everyone how to build a bomb and trust the cops to catch the bad guys. 

Not really like a bomb at all. 

[MAR1979]

On 12/27/2023 at 6:32 PM, Prince Namor said:

When I used to sell raw comics... no WAY in hell was that ever a 'possible' 9.8. 

If that's a 9.8, CGC is missing a LOT of potential 9.9's and 10's they have out there graded as 9.8

The inconsistency is just grotesque.

Agreed book at best is 9.4 . At this juncture there are no more coincidences only more potential evidence.

Edited December 27, 2023 by MAR1979

[Bill1]

On 12/27/2023 at 3:01 PM, Ron C. said:

I disagree with the contention that no criticism of CGC is allowed on that FB site. You can't post Voldy books and you need to be civil in your interactions with others. 

That's me. I am in no way associated with CGC other than using them like any of us do. Pretty much our only rule is no CBCS and be nice. Many of us simply can't seem to do that, so I gladly help them move on. And no one was banned for talking about this, but their post was removed, and the first 10 or so were given the reason why. After that, if I removed one and the person kept re-posting, I removed them. When CGC finally has an official post, we will gladly post it. But going off of some you-tubers with a bunch of allegations, and then allowing the more enthusiastic members to try convince the majority of us that the sky is falling is not what we are there for. Lots of work has gone into this problem by several of the members here, and I am sure we all thank you for that. Lots of accusations and theories have come from others, and we don't thank you for that. Enjoy this great hobby, and don't let this kind of problem ruin your month. Remember, at least in my group, 80% of the members don't and likely won't ever have a Hulk 181, and no one is counterfeiting the latest Venom variant.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Bill1
mispelling

[Prince Namor]

On 12/28/2023 at 6:36 AM, MAR1979 said:

Agreed book at best is 9.4 . At this juncture there are no more coincidences only more evidence.

It's evidence that some changes need to be made at CGC. 

Somewhere, someone is not allowing that company to be LED correctly. 

QC and consistency, the two most important things to real collectors, are sorely lacking.

You may not need a 'NASA' understanding of how to fix things, but at the very least a 'McDonald's' understanding. 

[Heronext]

On 12/27/2023 at 6:39 PM, Bill1 said:

That's me. I am in no way associated with CGC other than using them like any of us do. Pretty much our only rule is no CBCS and be nice. Many of us simply can't seem to do that, so I gladly help them move on. And no one was banned for talking about this, but their post was removed, and the first 10 or so were given the reason why. After that, if I removed one and the person kept re-posting, I removed them. When CGC finally has an official post, we will gladly post it. But going off of some you-tubers with a bunch of allegations, and then allowing the more enthusiastic members to try convince the majority of us that the sky is falling is not what we are there for. Lots of work has gone into this problem by several of the members here, and I am sure we all thank you for that. Lots of accusations and theories have come from others, and we don't thank you for that. Enjoy this great hobby, and don't let this kind of problem ruin your month. Remember, at least in my group, 80% of the members don't and likely won't ever have a Hulk 181, and no one is counterfeiting the latest Venom variant.

That's great because I don't want to follow two threads anyway

[BrashL]

On 12/27/2023 at 5:39 PM, Bill1 said:

That's me. 

Serious question: Why do you feel like you should get to control what people hear? Why not let them consume the information and decide from themselves, even if it’s different than what you think. Wouldn’t you rather some feathers get ruffled than someone in the group buy a switched slab when it could have been prevented?

[bc]

On 12/27/2023 at 6:39 PM, Bill1 said:

That's me. I am in no way associated with CGC other than using them like any of us do. Pretty much our only rule is no CBCS and be nice. Many of us simply can't seem to do that, so I gladly help them move on. And no one was banned for talking about this, but their post was removed, and the first 10 or so were given the reason why. After that, if I removed one and the person kept re-posting, I removed them. When CGC finally has an official post, we will gladly post it. But going off of some you-tubers with a bunch of allegations, and then allowing the more enthusiastic members to try convince the majority of us that the sky is falling is not what we are there for. Lots of work has gone into this problem by several of the members here, and I am sure we all thank you for that. Lots of accusations and theories have come from others, and we don't thank you for that. Enjoy this great hobby, and don't let this kind of problem ruin your month. Remember, at least in my group, 80% of the members don't and likely won't ever have a Hulk 181, and no one is counterfeiting the latest Venom variant.

-bc

[Bill1]

On 12/27/2023 at 6:44 PM, BrashL said:

Serious question: Why do you feel like you should get to control what people hear? Why not let them consume the information and decide from themselves, even if it’s different than what you think. Wouldn’t you rather some feathers get ruffled than someone in the group buy a switched slab when it could have been prevented?

People can hear whatever they want, and post whatever they want, on their own site. Our group is not for all the constant arguing and just plain nasty-ness that so many of these groups have. Certainly, this is the best place to get the info, and we have a link to it. I have far more people PM me saying they are sick of constant complainers than people upset because we don't give them a forum to complain in. And when it is verifiable facts, from a trusted source, we will link it or post it. But most people have had enough of Fox News, so we choose to not be that way.

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by Bill1
spelling

[Iconic1s]

On 12/27/2023 at 5:44 PM, BrashL said:

Serious question: Why do you feel like you should get to control what people hear? Why not let them consume the information and decide from themselves, even if it’s different than what you think. Wouldn’t you rather some feathers get ruffled than someone in the group buy a switched slab when it could have been prevented?

This deserved an actual “THANK YOU!”

Edited December 27, 2023 by Iconic1s

[bc]

On 12/27/2023 at 6:49 PM, Bill1 said:

People can hear whatever they want, and post whatever they want, on their own site. Our group is not for all the constant arguing and just plain -ness that so many of these groups have. Certainly, this is the best place to get the info, and we have a link to it. I have far more people PM me saying they are sick of constant complainers than people upset because we don't give them a forum to complain in. And when it is verifiable facts, from a trusted source, we will link it or post it. But most people have had enough of Fox News, so we choose to not be that way.

 

-bc

[Prince Namor]

I don't agree with some of what Bill1 says, but it IS his group. He can decide. Then people can decide if they want to be a part of it or not. That's just the way that it works.

No one OWES any of us a platform to say whatever we want. Start your own facebook group, or your own FACEBOOK. Then YOU get to decide.

No sense walking in Burger King and making an issue out of the fact they don't serve Beefy 5 layer burritos. 

Edited December 27, 2023 by Prince Namor
World Domination

[BrashL]

On 12/27/2023 at 5:55 PM, Prince Namor said:

I don't agree with some of what Bill1 says, but it IS his group. He can decide. Then people can decide if they want to be a part of it or not. That's just the way that it works.

No one OWES any of us a platform to say whatever we want. Start your own facebook group, or your own FACEBOOK. Then YOU get to decide.

No sense walking in Burger King and making an issue out of the fact they don't serve Beey 5 layer burritos. 

Totally agree, but to me this is a matter of personal integrity. If I knew I had a (large!) community that trusted my site for information on CGC and I restricted that discussion, I’d feel responsible if someone got ripped off. He says “80% will never own” one of the comics mentioned, as if 20% is a trivial amount. You’re putting loyalty to CGC above loyalty to your community. I can’t get behind that. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 12/27/2023 at 3:49 PM, Bill1 said:

People can hear whatever they want, and post whatever they want, on their own site. Our group is not for all the constant arguing and just plain nasty-ness that so many of these groups have. Certainly, this is the best place to get the info, and we have a link to it. I have far more people PM me saying they are sick of constant complainers than people upset because we don't give them a forum to complain in. And when it is verifiable facts, from a trusted source, we will link it or post it. But most people have had enough of Fox News, so we choose to not be that way.

 

[universal soldier]

On 12/27/2023 at 6:39 PM, Bill1 said:

 Remember, at least in my group, 80% of the members don't and likely won't ever have a Hulk 181, and no one is counterfeiting the latest Venom variant.

Not yet or not that anyone is aware of...

On 12/27/2023 at 6:49 PM, Bill1 said:

People can hear whatever they want, and post whatever they want, on their own site. Our group is not for all the constant arguing and just plain nasty-ness that so many of these groups have. Certainly, this is the best place to get the info, and we have a link to it. I have far more people PM me saying they are sick of constant complainers than people upset because we don't give them a forum to complain in. And when it is verifiable facts, from a trusted source, we will link it or post it. But most people have had enough of Fox News, so we choose to not be that way.

 

I'm a member over there, don't post but do read most of the posts. I respect your choice to limit the conversations on this topic but IMO, you should pin that specific post and let others make of it what they want.

[Bill1]

On 12/27/2023 at 7:06 PM, universal soldier said:

Not yet or not that anyone is aware of...

I'm a member over there, don't post but do read most of the posts. I respect your choice to limit the conversations on this topic but IMO, you should pin that specific post and let others make of it what they want.

Good idea, pinned!