ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[MAR1979]

On 12/27/2023 at 10:42 PM, sledgehammer said:

That's interesting. Someone came on the thread, a boardie from Canada, that doesn't post often (actually, he really never does), and proved that the ebay seller shipped his purchase from a USPS location in Kew Gardens, NY.

He bought an IH 340 from him/her/it..

Can you at least say that YOUR suspect is in the Brooklyn area?

What are his initials? 

Kew Gardens is Queens County   

How about this; Can you at least say that YOUR suspect is in the Brooklyn-Queens area?
If it's a yes than that narrows it down to 4.9 Million People or ~1.4% of the USA population

[MAR1979]

Silver Lining? Many who have been scammed will exit the hobby. Combined with a sinking comic market and this situation prices in general should drop nicely for true collectors.  Winter not only is coming for many sellers/dealers, it may also be a Nuclear one. Only those sellers/dealers with luck + true business acumen will survive the lean times ahead...

Edited December 28, 2023 by MAR1979

[William-James88]

On 12/27/2023 at 12:54 PM, agamoto said:

This... A million times this. It's now the most reasonable explanation for 9.8's that everyone objectively agrees aren't even close to a 9.8

Gonna disagree on this one simply because of how widespread and varied, in terms of book value, that was over time. CGC messing up at times feels more probable than an organized comic crime ring that did this on random books sold from a multitude of stores. 

It certainly doesn't explain this 9.8 with spine ticks, for instance,  which couldn't have been scammed the same way due to it being a signature series.

Plus there's the idea that 9.8 means mint from the printing press, so it can include bindery tears and colour breaks, as people discuss in one of the many "is this a 9.8?" threads on the site.

To be clear, I am not saying the spidey 252 that sparked this is legit, it isn't.  I just do not think we are looking at the same scam happening all the time everywhere. I feel that absolves CGC too much.

Edited December 28, 2023 by William-James88

[VintageComics]

On 12/27/2023 at 5:38 PM, BrashL said:

On 12/27/2023 at 4:30 PM, VintageComics said:

So, so far this still seems to be an eBay centric problem. 

Newsstand 9.9 knows who the original scammer is and said he has seen him selling on Instagram and at shows. Even if this was just one guy (and it’s not) it’s not limited to eBay. 

I don't think so. 

As far as I know, we've covered this already a few days ago. There was an unsubstantiated rumor that the scammer was showing his books off at a show and even that wasn't confirmed. The person that stated it (  @skybolt if I'm not mistaken) it never went back to the video confirm it. Has anyone else?

If you have some proof otherwise, please share it. Post a clip of the video with a link to the time spot that it's being spoken about.

There is no proof he was selling at shows yet, and I have spoken to a very prominent national dealer who would most likely recognize the name of this person if they were setting up at shows. 

So far, ALL we know points to eBay for sure, and possibly IG, so online sales only at this point. 

The important point being all of the online stuff will leave footprints and can be tracked.

If you have anything that proves otherwise, I'm happy to be wrong.

[VintageComics]

On 12/27/2023 at 8:13 PM, Stefan_W said:

On 12/27/2023 at 8:11 PM, KCOComics said:

Hey all - I haven't read through all 162 pages of this,  but have been trying to track the situation. 

If this has been suggested,  I apologize, but is anyone tracking all of the identified swapped books?? If you can document it with links and evidence and post that document in a place CGC can easily find it,  it will help them investigate.  I imagine no one at cgc will be sifting through the hundreds of pages in this thread. So post the link to the document in the first post, or start a new thread. 

I think at this point there is no question that something fraudulent and despicable is going on. Now let's make it as easy as possible for CGC to identify it and take action. 

 

And I know many feel they won't take a strong enough action. What they do is out of our control. What is in our control is making it obvious and trackable to the point where it can't be ignored. 

Expand  

@comicwiz is doing great work with the help of a few others. 

Also, CGC Customer Service has stated they are following the thread as well as investigating. 

[MAR1979]

On 12/27/2023 at 10:55 PM, VintageComics said:

I don't think so. 

As far as I know, we've covered this already a few days ago. There was an unsubstantiated rumor that the scammer was showing his books off at a show and even that wasn't confirmed. The person that stated it (  @skybolt if I'm not mistaken) it never went back to the video confirm it. Has anyone else?

If you have some proof otherwise, please share it. Post a clip of the video with a link to the time spot that it's being spoken about.

There is no proof he was selling at shows yet, and I have spoken to a very prominent national dealer who would most likely recognize the name of this person if they were setting up at shows. 

So far, ALL we know points to eBay for sure, and possibly IG, so online sales only at this point. 

The important point being all of the online stuff will leave footprints and can be tracked.

If you have anything that proves otherwise, I'm happy to be wrong.

Even if only online from the scammer what about the purchasers of the many books then selling them? Mathematically impossible given it been going on for years that it's confined only to "eBay and IG".

Edited December 28, 2023 by MAR1979

[MAR1979]

On 12/27/2023 at 10:58 PM, VintageComics said:

Also, CGC Customer Service has stated they are following the thread as well as investigating. 

'sup CS.

I do seriously and truly sympathize on the individual level how this has impacted your Holiday season and possibly time with your families.

Edited December 28, 2023 by MAR1979

[VintageComics]

On 12/27/2023 at 10:42 PM, sledgehammer said:

That's interesting. Someone came on the thread, a boardie from Canada, that doesn't post often (actually, he really never does), and proved that the ebay seller shipped his purchase from a USPS location in Kew Gardens, NY.

He bought an IH 340 from him/her/it..

Can you at least say that YOUR suspect is in the Brooklyn area?

What are his initials? 

Nothing to do with Bree or Briva. This could be an alias, family member or something else. 

The people who need to know the details are aware of them. 

[MAR1979]

On 12/27/2023 at 11:02 PM, VintageComics said:

Nothing to do with Bree or Briva. This could be an alias, family member or something else. 

The people who need to know the details are aware of them. 

So not the #2 all-time NFL touchdown passing leader?  Darn, I had very high hopes this went all the way up to Goodell!

Edited December 28, 2023 by MAR1979

[brute_nm]

Check out this new feature on the census. Hopefully this means CGC will remove fraudulent books

[Sigur Ros]

On 12/27/2023 at 10:41 PM, VintageComics said:

No. I'll put in crayon for the kindergarten students. 

CGC looked into the book and said it was fine. 

I know you think you're doing all the heavy lifting with your one-liners but there are a LOT of people co-operating behind the scenes. They're just not making YouTube videos or posting here to announce it. 

Why are you getting defensive?

Anyway, before you post another comment about being picked on, etc, etc...zzz

I was just saying it was good that both the seller of the book...AND the company whose reputation is at stake...both said the book is fine.  

Because if they aren't honest, who is..?

 

 

[VintageComics]

On 12/27/2023 at 11:16 PM, Sigur Ros said:

On 12/27/2023 at 10:41 PM, VintageComics said:

No. I'll put in crayon for the kindergarten students. 

CGC looked into the book and said it was fine. 

I know you think you're doing all the heavy lifting with your one-liners but there are a LOT of people co-operating behind the scenes. They're just not making YouTube videos or posting here to announce it. 

Why are you getting defensive?

Anyway, before you post another comment about being picked on, etc, etc...zzz

I was just saying it was good that both the seller of the book...AND the company whose reputation is at stake...both said the book is fine.  

Because if they aren't honest, who is..?

Because I went out of my way to notify Comiclink about the ASM #129 conversation here, asked them to look into it and then relayed the results back here and all you could reply to my post with was snark. 

You have NO IDEA how many people are working behind the scenes that aren't posting here and your snark shows a lack of appreciation for these efforts. 

A simple 'thank you' would have been much more appropriate. 

Edited December 28, 2023 by VintageComics

[wombat]

On 12/27/2023 at 11:21 PM, VintageComics said:

You have NO IDEA how many people are working behind the scenes that aren't posting here and your snark shows a lack of appreciation for these efforts. 

So you are upset that the people working behind the scenes that we don't know are working behind the scenes are not being appreciated? Let me take this opportunity to thank everyone who I have no idea about for your efforts. 

[Prince Namor]

On 12/28/2023 at 10:15 AM, skybolt said:

I looked at the scans and the book looks like a 9.6/9.8 candidate for me. Please note that the white line along the spine is due to the CGC scan. I see that stupid line on all my CGC graded book scans, but it does not exist in reality. 

 I wasn't even taking that into consideration. That top and bottom corner, as well as the 5-6 spine tics automatically would've disqualified it from a 9.8 to me. 

[VintageComics]

On 12/27/2023 at 11:30 PM, wombat said:

So you are upset that the people working behind the scenes that we don't know are working behind the scenes are not being appreciated?

No.

[Prince Namor]

On 12/28/2023 at 8:49 AM, MatterEaterLad said:

Here's a cringe-worthy thought.

What if CGC has known about this for a while and that's why they started scanning every book back in July? 

I was thinking the same thing...

[wombat]

On 12/27/2023 at 11:35 PM, Prince Namor said:

On 12/27/2023 at 8:49 PM, MatterEaterLad said:

Here's a cringe-worthy thought.

What if CGC has known about this for a while and that's why they started scanning every book back in July? 

I was thinking the same thing...

Do we know if any of the reholders were submitted after scans started?

[William-James88]

I feel we have more than enough "is this really a 9.8?" threads on this site and this specific thread/topic is too important to turn it into another one of them. The big problem here isn't just that it doesn't look like a 9.8 but that 2 different books got the same cert number, making this a scam and trying to get away with it by using CGC and the blind faith people have for their slabbed books.

[Prince Namor]

On 12/28/2023 at 11:30 AM, wombat said:

So you are upset that the people working behind the scenes that we don't know are working behind the scenes are not being appreciated? Let me take this opportunity to thank everyone who I have no idea about for your efforts. 

Wait... if you have no idea how many people are working behind the scenes, how are you supposed to know to appreciate them?

[Stefan_W]

On 12/27/2023 at 11:21 PM, VintageComics said:

You have NO IDEA how many people are working behind the scenes that aren't posting here and your snark shows a lack of appreciation for these efforts. 

 

Yeah. It seems that in the 164 pages and counting of discussion in this thread there is a divide between people who do not believe that work is being done behind the scenes and those who are aware of it, are helping a bit, or assume there is a beehive of activity at CGC right now. Having worked in an area where very public things hit the fan I totally understand the high pressure on the staff dealing with this current scam, and I am pretty positive people are not only working their collective butts off trying to piece everything together but that some of them may have even worked through the holidays (this last part is a guess). Others continue to argue that just because a statement has not come out yet that things are being swept under the rug and this situation is being ignored until it blows over. I don't see this division ending for a while. 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Stefan_W