ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 12/28/2023 at 7:35 PM, Mdesimone said:

 

You still think it was pressed and regraded? The 8.0 was graded in 2015

Seeing the grade dates, it’s clear it was a swap.

[Stefan_W]

On 12/28/2023 at 7:32 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

I understand.  But CGC could argue that the 8.0 could have been pressed and resubmitted.

No they will not. The grade date of the 8.0 is after the 9.0:

1097250011
9.0 grade date 04/11/2012

0269834004
8.0 grade date 10/07/2015

 

Edit: looks like others beat me to this point.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Stefan_W

[sledgehammer]

On 12/23/2023 at 10:28 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

On 12/23/2023 at 10:24 AM, VintageComics said:

I was messaging with him and he is very busy, and obviously the holidays have complicated that. 

I've intercepted a transcript of your messaging:

Roy: "Waaagh!"

CGC Mike: "Would you f*** off!"

Roy: "But, waaagh!"

CGC Mike: "Look, just f*** off will you!"

Roy: "But WAAAAAGH!"

CGC Mike: "F*** OFF!"

Wow.

You really do have your finger on the pulse!!! 

[wombat]

I feel really bad for anyone who got scammed. I feel even worse for the meat grinder you will have to go through with CGC. 

[Stefan_W]

On 12/28/2023 at 7:20 PM, Mdesimone said:

I bought from the scammer on eBay , it was asm 129 cgc 9.0 I’ll show you the photos of my book and the book I found sold on eBay which is an 8.0

 

Thank you for sharing. If you don't mind me asking, when did you buy this book on Ebay? I am curious because we are not sure how long the scammer has been doing stuff like this. The book looks like a direct switch and without the resub part the grade dates do not help us to set a timeline for the scam itself.  

[William-James88]

On 12/28/2023 at 7:20 PM, Mdesimone said:

I bought from the scammer on eBay , it was asm 129 cgc 9.0 I’ll show you the photos of my book and the book I found sold on eBay which is an 8.0

This is super intriguing. In this particular case, how  can you tell its a scam and not someone who bought the 8.0 and cracked the case themselves and had it pressed and regraded? If CGC has "fingerbend" notes for the 8.0 and none for the 9.0 (or simply less issues noted), they could say that the book was pressed and regraded and thus legit. 

 

I'm just wondering how anything could be proven in a matter like this.

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 12/28/2023 at 7:43 PM, William-James88 said:

This is super intriguing. In this particular case, how  can you tell its a scam and not someone who bought the 8.0 and cracked the case themselves and had it pressed and regraded? If CGC has "fingerbend" notes for the 8.0 and none for the 9.0 (or simply less issues noted), they could say that the book was pressed and regraded and thus legit. 

 

I'm just wondering how anything could be proven in a matter like this.

I thought the same thing, but the 8.0 was graded after the 9.0

[Mdesimone]

On 12/28/2023 at 7:42 PM, Stefan_W said:

Thank you for sharing. If you don't mind me asking, when did you buy this book on Ebay? I am curious because we are not sure how long the scammer has been doing stuff like this. The book looks like a direct switch and without the resub part the grade dates do not help us to set a timeline for the scam itself.  

December 2019 under his other name aureliiag shipped from Kew gardens post office and return label was forest hills, I remember all this because I work in Kew gardens and thought it was strange the listing said Arizona 

[Stefan_W]

On 12/28/2023 at 7:45 PM, Mdesimone said:

December 2019 under his other name aureliiag shipped from Kew gardens post office and return label was forest hills, I remember all this because I work in Kew gardens and thought it was strange the listing said Arizona 

Thank you for the info - it helps a lot. As expected, this person was running the scam in a different form prior to the arrival of custom holders and all that other stuff. Back then it was one for one switches without sending anything back to CGC after the books were swapped. 

[Mdesimone]

On 12/28/2023 at 7:45 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

I thought the same thing, but the 8.0 was graded after the 9.0

Because it’s not a 9.0 the real 9.0 had no grader notes the 8.0 is now it the wrong slab

[William-James88]

On 12/28/2023 at 7:45 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

I thought the same thing, but the 8.0 was graded after the 9.0

Ah thanks!

 

And also, YIKES!!!!!

Edited December 29, 2023 by William-James88

[sledgehammer]

On 12/28/2023 at 6:45 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

On 12/28/2023 at 6:43 PM, William-James88 said:

This is super intriguing. In this particular case, how  can you tell its a scam and not someone who bought the 8.0 and cracked the case themselves and had it pressed and regraded? If CGC has "fingerbend" notes for the 8.0 and none for the 9.0 (or simply less issues noted), they could say that the book was pressed and regraded and thus legit. 

 

I'm just wondering how anything could be proven in a matter like this.

I thought the same thing, but the 8.0 was graded after the 9.0

The 9.0 was graded in 2012, but it has the new label. Reholdered. Swapped.

The 8.0 holder was graded in 2015, and it has the old label style.

[wombat]

What if sending in the reholders was only part of his scam. The other was just swapping and selling without sending back to CGC. 

[bc]

On 12/28/2023 at 7:16 PM, jsilverjanet said:

that's a good number for over/under

350 Over/Under

 

With the latest info, I'll take the Over for $100 Alex.

-bc

[William-James88]

On 12/28/2023 at 7:51 PM, wombat said:

What if sending in the reholders was only part of his scam. The other was just swapping and selling without sending back to CGC. 

Yeah that first punisher is an example of that

[comeaux]

[William-James88]

On 12/28/2023 at 7:51 PM, sledgehammer said:

The 9.0 was graded in 2012, but it has the new label. Reholdered. Swapped.

The 8.0 holder was graded in 2015, and it has the old label style.

Is the scammer reproducing fake labels and altering the cert number? Only way I see this making sense (but I may be missing something)

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 12/28/2023 at 8:00 PM, William-James88 said:

Is the scammer reproducing fake labels and altering the cert number? Only way I see this making sense (but I may be missing something)

The 9.0 was sent in for reholdering, but kept its original grade date. 

Edited December 29, 2023 by THE_BEYONDER

[CJ Design]

On 12/28/2023 at 6:08 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

How many books were outed in this thread?

I'll guess just under....

One Million

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by CJ Design

[bc]

On 12/28/2023 at 5:01 PM, Mdesimone said:

How do we know this guy didn’t use his friends and family to submit for reholders, he has 3 states listed on his eBay auctions, I wouldn’t keep submitting amazing Spider-Man 300 9.8 for reholders on a weekly basis because I would be worried about causing attention

If the perp has been expanding for several years, he'd likely have a distributed network for both originals, donors and sales. If he's making as much profit as shown by examples in this thread, I'd want to play it low key and have it spread out to avoid IRS scrutiny.

-bc