ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[Steven Valdez]

On 1/2/2024 at 6:14 AM, pdags said:

I really hope CGC compensates you something as a "thank you".

Yes. They should at least send Comicwiz a Hulk #181 for his efforts. MVS included, preferably.

Edited January 2 by Steven Valdez

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 1/1/2024 at 11:32 PM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

Instead thanks to CGC polling some "Trusted members of the community " this is what the label for that book looked like.

The scammer could get that put into a blue label lickety-split.

Edited January 2 by THE_BEYONDER

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 1/1/2024 at 10:19 PM, wiparker824 said:

I think you’re talking about what should have been happening, but as someone who submitted multiple reholders with things like a cracked corner of the slab and had no regrade, just straight reholder with the same cert number retained I can tell you the slab definitely didn’t need to be flawless to get a reholder without a regrade. Will it need to be going forward? I guess time will tell. It certainly could have been one way to have avoided this mess.

There were some reholders that people would get rejected, and they’d have been sent to regrade, these would be cases where the case wasn’t even close to flawless. The case essentially completely shattered or shattered enough to where it was obvious the book could easily be taken in and out. The other way people hit regrades on reholder attempts was when the book looked like it had been damaged within the holder from whatever caused the case to be damaged in the first place.

Thanks for speaking up and somehow getting the gist of what I meant. Slab doesn't need to be perfectly intact for a reholder.

I'm tired and kind of stressed, but if someone can drive that point home when these videos are posted, it'll serve a purpose.

No one should be making these videos without expecting trouble.

The only people videos like this will fool is buyers on eBay and etc.... not cgc

[Iconic1s]

On 1/1/2024 at 10:15 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

Cgc does not just print labels, or their not supposed to.

I've sent for reholder. @Iconic1s has too but idk how badly his case was damaged.

I dropped mine in the garage, it barely fit together. Cgc looked at the book!

The after looking at the book and assessing that condition looked at the label, said close enough and REHOLDERed.

At no point during that was I thinking I need to break out a sonic weld and glue

 

At this point I’m not reholdering another book.  The trust is broken as far as I’m concerned.

I don’t sell books… I have always just wanted my books in new holders so they would look better in my registry sets.

Now that everyone is screaming to regrade all reholders (something that from my POV I absolutely disagree with) I’m not about to be the guy that suffers because this dude took advantage of the system to profit.  I have one 9.9 in particular that would look sweet in a new holder but now I can never enjoy it in a new holder because all of a sudden CGC “might” want to start looking at books closer, and it would be devastating for that book to be sent back to me as a 9.8, grading being as subjective as it is.

I really hope this dude and all of his accomplices get serious jail time.

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 1/1/2024 at 10:30 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

The scammer was trying to avoid CGC scrutinizing the book itself.  A slab that shows no damage helps achieve this goal.

It shouldn't.

 But I see your point 

[drotto]

On 1/1/2024 at 11:30 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

The scammer was trying to avoid CGC scrutinizing the book itself.  A slab that shows no damage helps achieve this goal.

Yes, I think the scammer was trying to get the holder to look not damaged, or minimally damaged.  That way CGC was looking mainly at the case, and determining that the damage to the outer case was insufficient to have damaged the comic, and therefor the comic did not need further evaluation. Off to reholder it goes. At this point it seems the main reason for the comic to be sent back to CGC was

1. to get changes made to the label

2. make sure the book and any pictures associated with it in the registry would look legitimate. 

An added benefit was if any damage was done to the case during the swap the book would get a nice shiny new case.  I think it is possible to get the cases looking close to perfect, with practice.  I am not sure it is possible to get it 100% non detectable for the very observant. We all know how detail oriented and demanding comic collectors can be.  Somebody (likely many somebodies) would quickly be raising red flags if a sellers cases consistently looked off. As proven by what really ended up happening, the collectors were the more observant ones. I think the deception would have been discovered faster, if these books had not been passing through CGC before going back out into the wild. 

 

YES, CGC should have seen this, if they were truly evaluating the reholders.  That is not in question.

Edited January 2 by drotto

[Steven Valdez]

On 1/2/2024 at 10:34 AM, Bo1983 said:

Hulk 180 is Wolverine’s first appearance anyway and if he was on the cover with only one panel in the book nobody would be talking about 181!

Actually, Wolverine first appeared in an issue of FOOM as a reader's creation.

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 1/1/2024 at 10:47 PM, drotto said:

Yes, I think the scammer was trying to get the holder to look not damaged, or minimally damaged.  That way CGC was looking mainly at the case, and determining that the damage to the outer case was insufficient to have damaged the comic, and therefor the comic did not need further evaluation. Off to reholder it goes. At this point it seems the main reason for the comic to be sent back to CGC was

1. to get changes made to the label

2. make sure the book and any pictures associated with it in the registry would look legitimate. 

An added benefit was if any damage was done to the case during the swap the book would get a nice shiny new case.  I think it is possible to get the cases looking close to perfect, with practice.  I am not sure it is possible to get it 100% non detectable for the very observant. We all know how detail oriented and demanding comic collectors can be.  Somebody (likely many somebodies) would quickly be raising red flags if a sellers cases consistently looked off. As proven by what really ended up happening, the collectors were the more observant ones. I think the deception would have been discovered faster, if these books had not been passing through CGC before going back out into the wild. 

That's a slight point, but sounds like speculation, convincing nonetheless, but I doubt cgc will come out and admit it.

On 1/1/2024 at 10:43 PM, Iconic1s said:

At this point I’m not reholdering another book.  The trust is broken as far as I’m concerned.

I don’t sell books… I have always just wanted my books in new holders so they would look better in my registry sets.

Now that everyone is screaming to regrade all reholders (something that from my POV I absolutely disagree with) I’m not about to be the guy that suffers because this dude took advantage of the system to profit.  I have one 9.9 in particular that would look sweet in a new holder but now I can never enjoy it in a new holder because all of a sudden CGC “might” want to start looking at books closer, and it would be devastating for that book to be sent back to me as a 9.8, grading being as subjective as it is.

I really hope this dude and all of his accomplices get serious jail time.

Sorry to hear that

Edited January 2 by ADAMANTIUM

[ADAMANTIUM]

Maybe it would help if they didn't do a recall on reholders but just going forward a reholder/regrade at diminishing costs till you free ticket punch submission, then restart over at cost? @Iconic1s

[drotto]

On 1/1/2024 at 11:53 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

That's a slight point, but sounds like speculation, convincing nonetheless, but I doubt cgc will come out and admit it.

Sorry to hear that

Yes, speculation a bit on my part, but it seems very reasonable based on what is known at this point. I am not sure what CGC is going to do at this point.  Any guesses at that would also be speculation.

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 1/1/2024 at 11:56 PM, drotto said:

Yes, speculation a bit on my part, but it seems very reasonable based on what is known at this point. I am not sure what CGC is going to do at this point.  Any guesses at that would also be speculation.

I assume new reholder protocols along with a list of all the impacted books is all we’ll be getting from CGC 

[Steven Valdez]

On 1/2/2024 at 10:47 AM, wombat said:

If what comes out of this is reholders continue without automatic regrade who would really be confident in CGC implementing a process change that would actually work? The same people who just can't figure out how to prevent books from going in slabs upside down and mixing up the wrong books in the wrong slabs. 

They look fine to me!

[Microchip]

On 1/2/2024 at 3:32 PM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

Instead thanks to CGC polling some "Trusted members of the community " this is what the label for that book looked like.

Owning that book must feel like a trip to Thailand, and seeing a bunch of lady boy's for the first time... technically its looks right, but deep down is a really bad surprise 

[drotto]

On 1/1/2024 at 11:59 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

I assume new reholder protocols along with a list of all the impacted books is all we’ll be getting from CGC 

Again speculating, but i think that will be the next thing we see. I suspect those reholder protocols changing are what the CGC was referring to in their statement when they were saying changes had already been made. I think further down the line we will be seeing a new case and/or added security measures, but that is something that will take more time and money.  People will need To be patient with that.

[maz25]

On 1/1/2024 at 5:29 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

I am still waiting on all these supposed "easy to crack/switch" Youtube videos to surface. 

Bob, Nick Sirianni will learn to run the ball against a terrible team that is the worst against the run before we see the above.

 

You know Nick Sirianni is probably behind this comic book scam, I mean why not he scammed us with thinking the Eagles were a 10-1 team at one point.

 

 

 

 

Off-comics-topic, thanks for the laugh

10-1-done

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

Spoiler

On 1/1/2024 at 11:01 PM, Microchip said:

Owning that book must feel like a trip to Thailand, and seeing a bunch of lady boy's for the first time... technically its looks right, but deep down is a really bad surprise 

 

 

[Iconic1s]

How about they keep doing reholders as they have been but refrain from any kind of favortism for “big” submitters?

I think the idea that the CGC machine doesn’t know whose books they are working on is out the window at this point.

A few months ago CGC posted a video where the Toddfather mentioned whose book he was signing… I questioned this and they said that while the signer knew whose books they were signing that the graders still didn’t know.  I thought that the signers knowing was also garbage!  If the entire CGC process is not 100% anonymous, certain cool people might get better sigs/sketches (or maybe their reholders aren’t looked at as close).  It’s supposed to be an “impartial” service throughout and it is clear it is not.

If what I’ve come to believe keeping up with this thread is true, then this guy used his name recognition to get one over on CGC, while CGC’s apathetic attitude towards QC and impartiality, facilitated his success. 

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 1/2/2024 at 12:11 AM, Iconic1s said:

How about they keep doing reholders as they have been but refrain from any kind of favortism for “big” submitters?

I think the idea that the CGC machine doesn’t know whose books they are working on is out the window at this point.

A few months ago CGC posted a video where the Toddfather mentioned whose book he was signing… I questioned this and they said that while the signer knew whose books they were signing that the graders still didn’t know.  I thought that the signers knowing was also garbage!  If the entire CGC process is not 100% anonymous, certain cool people might get better sigs/sketches (or maybe their reholders aren’t looked at as close).  It’s supposed to be an “impartial” service throughout and it is clear it is not.

If what I’ve come to believe keeping up with this thread is true, then this guy used his name recognition to get one over on CGC, while CGC’s apathetic attitude towards QC and impartiality, facilitated his success. 

Has it been confirmed that the scammer is a major submitter known to CGC?

[Iconic1s]

On 1/1/2024 at 11:17 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Has it been confirmed that the scammer is a major submitter known to CGC?

The possibility was mentioned about 50 pages ago.  This person’s wife’s FB page has some posts (coincidentally) from people whose names are derivatives of some of the Seller accounts used in the scam (Bree, Zane Glor).  The associations seem too unlikely to dismiss. CGC Mike asked for the info if that lends any credence.

When considering what he was able to pull off, it makes enough sense to me to think this is what happened.  Of course the jury is still out.

Edited January 2 by Iconic1s

[wombat]

Well we certainly hit a record for someone quoting their own posts.