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ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC
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Started by spidermanbeyond,

9,028 posts in this topic

THE_BEYONDER

THE_BEYONDER

Posted
Posted
On 1/3/2024 at 7:26 PM, LordRahl said:

But the original 10 9.8s (or 5 or however many he bought) still exist. Why would he sit on those?

He wouldn’t.  He would keep resubbing them in order to get more books to swap with.

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agamoto

agamoto

Posted
Posted
On 1/3/2024 at 4:14 PM, LordRahl said:

lol you think this guy was subbing ASM 300's and 194's under walk-through? That is truly hilarious.

He sure as s*%t is paying walkthrough tier pricing on $3000 books. Even if it were just high dollar value reholders, his wait wouldn't be anywhere near 6 months.

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bc

bc

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On 1/3/2024 at 7:26 PM, BigLeagueCHEW said:

So he was actually buying 9.8s to keep the flow going.

This is how it may have gone down..

  • Perp buys a legit 9.8 ASM300 with cert# 111111111
  • Perp buys a donor ASM300 
  • Perp replaces legit book with donor and submits it to CGC as an ME/custom job (note perp still has legit 9.8)
  • CGC does their magic and the donor book now has cert # 11111111
  • Perp sells the donor book to poor sucker
  • Perp submits legit 9.8 ASM300 again (still in its original inner well), likely gets 9.8 with cert # 22222222
  • Perp buys another donor ASM 300
  • Perp replaces legit book with 2nd donor and submits to CGC as an ME/custom job (note: perp still has legit 9.8 still in inner well)
  • CGC does their magic and the donor book now has cert # 222222
  • Perp sells the second donor book to poor sucker

lather, rinse repeat.

 

If it was me, I'd invest in a few more legit 9.8's to increase cash flow and account for TATs and reduce suspicion.

-bc

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LordRahl

LordRahl

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Posted
On 1/3/2024 at 4:29 PM, agamoto said:

He sure as s*%t is paying walkthrough tier pricing on $3000 books. Even if it were just high dollar value reholders, his wait wouldn't be anywhere near 6 months.

Not right now. Were you around a couple of years ago when TAT's were ridiculous. Reholders were not immune, they were taking forever. And I guarantee you that someone that goes to this length to scam people out of money isn't paying walk-through prices on ASM 300's. That would be for straight submissions. There is no walk-through for reholders.

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Book Guy

Book Guy

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Posted

As I don't keep up with more modern prices I'm sure any guesstimate by me as to the $$ value of his sales were would be pathetic. Anybody else want to take a swing? I know he sold over the course of a big rise in prices so copies sold in 2016 will likely be a lot less than similar copies in 2021. Also we don't know what % were truly Sold and how many were simply shill bidding exercises.

Still, take a shot! Anybody got a $$ range?

 

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LordRahl

LordRahl

Posted
Posted
On 1/3/2024 at 4:33 PM, bc said:

This is how it may have gone down..

  • Perp buys a legit 9.8 ASM300 with cert# 111111111
  • Perp buys a donor ASM300 
  • Perp replaces legit book with donor and submits it to CGC as an ME/custom job (note perp still has legit 9.8)
  • CGC does their magic and the donor book now has cert # 11111111
  • Perp sells the donor book to poor sucker
  • Perp submits legit 9.8 ASM300 again (still in its original inner well), likely gets 9.8 with cert # 22222222
  • Perp buys another donor ASM 300
  • Perp replaces legit book with 2nd donor and submits to CGC as an ME/custom job (note: perp still has legit 9.8 still in inner well)
  • CGC does their magic and the donor book now has cert # 222222
  • Perp sells the second donor book to poor sucker

lather, rinse repeat.

 

If it was me, I'd invest in a few more legit 9.8's to increase cash flow and account for TATs and reduce suspicion.

-bc

That's what I was getting at. He isn't doing this with 1 copy of ASM 300 when there are 70+ copies on that list. But I guess he likely is sitting on several 9.8 copies that he keeps resubbing. Which also means the census is even more wildly inaccurate than I previously thought, at least for ASM 300 and 194. There are dozens of ghost 9.8s just from this one guy not to mention everyone else that CPR's without turning in the label.

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LordRahl

LordRahl

Posted
Posted
On 1/3/2024 at 4:35 PM, Book Guy said:

As I don't keep up with more modern prices I'm sure any guesstimate by me as to the $$ value of his sales were would be pathetic. Anybody else want to take a swing? I know he sold over the course of a big rise in prices so copies sold in 2016 will likely be a lot less than similar copies in 2021. Also we don't know what % were truly Sold and how many were simply shill bidding exercises.

Still, take a shot! Anybody got a $$ range?

 

Couple million $$$

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THE_BEYONDER

THE_BEYONDER

Posted
Posted
On 1/3/2024 at 7:38 PM, LordRahl said:

But I guess he likely is sitting on several 9.8 copies that he keeps resubbing. 

Which means he isn’t actually sitting on them.  They are in constant motion through the system.

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drotto

drotto

Posted
Posted
On 1/3/2024 at 7:38 PM, LordRahl said:

That's what I was getting at. He isn't doing this with 1 copy of ASM 300 when there are 70+ copies on that list. But I guess he likely is sitting on several 9.8 copies that he keeps resubbing. Which also means the census is even more wildly inaccurate than I previously thought, at least for ASM 300 and 194. There are dozens of ghost 9.8s just from this one guy not to mention everyone else that CPR's without turning in the label.

Yes, most likely has a handful of 9.8 that are constantly resubbed. That would also offset it if that 9.8 does occasionally come back as a 9.6, so they still have other 9.8's ready to go.

 

Since these are high value books and he needs turn around to keep this going, he is likely using a higher tier and paying for fast track.  The increase in cost is insignificant compared to the profit from increased turnover.

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ADAMANTIUM

ADAMANTIUM

Posted
Posted
On 1/3/2024 at 6:46 PM, bc said:
On 1/3/2024 at 6:44 PM, Murphman13 said:

How exactly could this scam be pulled off in that book?

:popcorn:

-bc

Similarly.... If he faked the sign,  does that mean there are several now qualified and ruined AF 15 out there just so he could pull this scam off. How many times did he actually think a 6.5ss Stan Lee would get through idk

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Murphman13

Murphman13

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Posted
On 1/3/2024 at 7:47 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

That’s a good question.  There has to be a reason it made the list though…

Forgery of Stan’s sig? If so that’s more charges to the perp and Stan Lee’s estate can come for their pound of flesh.

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mosconi

mosconi

Posted
Posted

Whatever the devious methods this scammer has implemented over the years, his name needs to be exposed to the comic collecting world very soon!  Can you imagine if we end up with Danny Dupcak as the criminal mastermind behind this, attempting to show CGC how inferior they and their product are?  

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agamoto

agamoto

Posted
Posted
On 1/3/2024 at 4:44 PM, Murphman13 said:

Here is the Amazing Fantasy 15

https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/1589872002/
 

How exactly could this scam be pulled off in that book?

1. Get a silver Sharpie. 

2. Get a lower grade donor AF15

3. Learn to sign the way Stan Lee signed his signature in the waning years of his life or buy an autopen machine for $300.

4. Sign your lower grade AF15 and put it in your SS case.

5. Grow a pair of massive, iron balls.

5. Submit for reholder/custom label. 

6. Sell your reholdered AF15 upon its return

7. Submit the real one to the "other grading company" and pay $25 for them to verify the sig.

8. Sell that book too. 

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LordRahl

LordRahl

Posted
Posted
On 1/3/2024 at 4:49 PM, mosconi said:

Whatever the devious methods this scammer has implemented over the years, his name needs to be exposed to the comic collecting world very soon!  Can you imagine if we end up with Danny Dupcak as the criminal mastermind behind this, attempting to show CGC how inferior they and their product are?  

Dupecake being involved wouldn't surprise me. I'm pretty sure he sold out of a Kew Gardens address back in the day and I know one of his shills at one point had an Arizona address. Which are 2 of the current addresses in question. And we know he used shills to sell his material as well. 

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