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ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC
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Started by spidermanbeyond,

9,031 posts in this topic

BrashL

BrashL

Posted
Posted
On 1/3/2024 at 8:42 PM, BigLeagueCHEW said:

Of someone submitted a book and it wasn’t on the list, the terms have to say they are responsible for any fees.

Like just blindly submitted it? Why would anyone do that?

 

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BrashL

BrashL

Posted
Posted (edited)

Another interesting detail:

"related to the incident involving an individual tampering with CGC Comics holders."

So is this confirmation that this was not an inside job and was in fact someone opening and resealing slabs? If that's the case, what was the method for determining the list? Is this every book he ever submitted, or just reholdering? What about books that he may have sold directly without reholdering (that were sealed up well enough to avoid detection), how do we account for those without a name?

Edited by BrashL
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LordRahl

LordRahl

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Posted
On 1/3/2024 at 6:45 PM, pickycollector said:

Fortunately I do not have any book from the list but when looking at it, I see books graded several years ago. I would have expected to see listed only books graded a few years ago but the Avengers #57 8.5, for example, was graded in 2008. Is that then just the tip of the iceberg?

I'm assuming any book ever submitted by this guy is on the list. Doesn't mean anything nefarious was going on with that specific book all the way back then.

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NewWorldOrder

NewWorldOrder

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/3/2024 at 6:38 PM, BigLeagueCHEW said:

That’s what I am thinking. Assuming some of these may have been the perps personal books that were sold off, who knows though.

Yeah I mean its obviously prob more bad than good, but I think a decent amount are legit (I hope anyway).

Only way of course to find out is to send them for the review.

Edited by NewWorldOrder
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COMICLINK

COMICLINK

Posted
Posted
On 1/3/2024 at 9:45 PM, pickycollector said:

Fortunately I do not have any book from the list but when looking at it, I see books graded several years ago. I would have expected to see listed only books graded a few years ago but the Avengers #57 8.5, for example, was graded in 2008. Is that then just the tip of the iceberg?

The Avengers 57 8.5 is one of the ones that ComicLink sold multiple times and I reviewed the sellers, buyers and the images. The images are the same in each case, and the book is fine.  

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ADAMANTIUM

ADAMANTIUM

Posted
Posted
On 1/3/2024 at 8:49 PM, LordRahl said:

I'm assuming any book ever submitted by this guy is on the list. Doesn't mean anything nefarious was going on with that specific book all the way back then.

 

On 1/3/2024 at 8:50 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Yeah I mean its obviously prob more bad than good, but I think a decent amount are legit (I hope anyway).

Only way of course to find out is to send them for the review.

 

On 1/3/2024 at 8:52 PM, COMICLINK said:

The Avengers 57 8.5 is one of the ones that ComicLink sold multiple times and I reviewed the sellers, buyers and the images. The images are the same in each case, and the book is fine.  

:butbutbutemoji: and hear me out?

Wouldn't anyone "on the list" want to send in to get a new cert number to then "be off the list?"

Then if they aren't found to have fraud books are then liable for grading fees? (Probably due to cgc insurance wile holding them? Idk)

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BigLeagueCHEW

BigLeagueCHEW

Posted
Posted
On 1/3/2024 at 7:47 PM, BrashL said:

Another interesting detail:

"related to the incident involving an individual tampering with CGC Comics holders."

So is this confirmation that this was not an inside job and was in fact someone opening and resealing slabs? If that's the case, what was the method for determining the list? Is this every book he ever submitted, or just reholdering? What about books that he may have sold directly without reholdering (that were sealed up well enough to avoid detection), how do we account for those without a name?

CGC tracks submissions by name, address, and serial numbers, so I am sure the list is probably accurate.

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BrashL

BrashL

Posted
Posted
On 1/3/2024 at 9:01 PM, BigLeagueCHEW said:

CGC tracks submissions by name, address, and serial numbers, so I am sure the list is probably accurate.

Just to clarify, are you guessing this is one guy and every submission he ever made? If that's the case it's great but CGC still owes it to the community to identify them so that anyone that bought direct from him can send them in as well. 

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BigLeagueCHEW

BigLeagueCHEW

Posted
Posted
On 1/3/2024 at 8:00 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

 

 

:butbutbutemoji: and hear me out?

Wouldn't anyone "on the list" want to send in to get a new cert number to then "be off the list?"

Then if they aren't found to have fraud books are then liable for grading fees? (Probably due to cgc insurance wile holding them? Idk)

The books are named on the list, whether fraud or not, CGC should cover all costs to maintain their image and credibility.

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BigLeagueCHEW

BigLeagueCHEW

Posted
Posted
On 1/3/2024 at 8:03 PM, BrashL said:

Just to clarify, are you guessing this is one guy and every submission he ever made? If that's the case it's great but CGC still owes it to the community to identify them so that anyone that bought direct from him can send them in as well. 

Does the perps name become public record if a case is filed in court by CGC against them? I think it does.

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ADAMANTIUM

ADAMANTIUM

Posted
Posted
On 1/3/2024 at 9:03 PM, BigLeagueCHEW said:

The books are named on the list, whether fraud or not, CGC should cover all costs to maintain their image and credibility.

That's not exactly what I asked.

If your slab is on the list, to not send it in and get it off "the list" makes you then liable for the faults...

The people I was responding to were finding books on the list, that they deemed "themselves" were fine. Thereby leaving those slabs on"the list" by not sending them in? For a new cert to get off the list? I was telling them not to do that

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gmasstermcd

gmasstermcd

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Posted

I was just looking up some of the books from the list on the registry a bunch of the 9.8 ASM 300's and #194's on the registry and I find it odd they all seem to have graders notes on 9.8's. I got hit with a search limiter and cant check anymore for a while but Every book I checked had graders notes which I find very, very odd from CGC especially on 9.8's.

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COMICLINK

COMICLINK

Posted
Posted
On 1/3/2024 at 10:00 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

 

 

:butbutbutemoji: and hear me out?

Wouldn't anyone "on the list" want to send in to get a new cert number to then "be off the list?"

Then if they aren't found to have fraud books are then liable for grading fees? (Probably due to cgc insurance wile holding them? Idk)

No - CGC is going to review the grades to be sure they are accurate.  There will be no charge regardless. If inaccurate, the book will be regraded.  If accurate, it will just receive a new cert number with the same grade.

I think all "cleared" books should be removed from the list by CGC, actively, so the list of books to watch out for should shrink substantial over time, hopefully within a short period of time.

CGC also stated in their release that they will not let anyone lose money based on their error.  I think they will have to provide more specificity on what they mean by that. This was an error, but they are stating that they are going to do right by the marketplace and their customers, and of course, they have already revised their procedures to some extent to prevent the same thing from recurring.

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ADAMANTIUM

ADAMANTIUM

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Posted

If you don't send in books because you as your own authority deem it not necessary by your own eyes?

Then when this list is screenshot and shared over the internet and elsewhere, your books are "on the list" with that cert nu,ber, ahem, fine by your eyes or not.

People will forever say, that cert is on a fraud list I'm not buying one on that list. Then cgc to say if they crack it and there is no fraud, cgc will make you pay fees? Maybe that was what you were answering, surely cgc wouldn't do that.

Basically those books are considered blacklisted and or stolen kind of similarly, in that if your slab is on the list cgc will regrade on their dime.

My advice to anyone is even if you think "no worries" to "your own eyes", then when you sell and even if their fine with it, who they then sell it too and so on might not be OK with it.

Basically we just got a lit for a recall, and I think anyone who says, meh it's probably fine, then I shake my head in disbelief 

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MAR1979

MAR1979

Posted
Posted
On 1/3/2024 at 10:15 PM, COMICLINK said:

No - CGC is going to review the grades to be sure they are accurate.  There will be no charge regardless. If inaccurate, the book will be regraded.  If accurate, it will just receive a new cert number with the same grade.

I think all "cleared" books should be removed from the list by CGC, actively, so the list of books to watch out for should shrink substantial over time, hopefully within a short period of time.

CGC also stated in their release that they will not let anyone lose money based on their error.  I think they will have to provide more specificity on what they mean by that. This was an error, but they are stating that they are going to do right by the marketplace and their customers, and of course, they have already revised their procedures to some extent to prevent the same thing from recurring.

Good 2 see you hear Josh. Now how about adding back of slab scans to ALL your auctions!

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BigLeagueCHEW

BigLeagueCHEW

Posted
Posted
On 1/3/2024 at 8:11 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

That's not exactly what I asked.

If your slab is on the list, to not send it in and get it off "the list" makes you then liable for the faults...

The people I was responding to were finding books on the list, that they deemed "themselves" were fine. Thereby leaving those slabs on"the list" by not sending them in? For a new cert to get off the list? I was telling them not to do that

Ahhh, got it, makes sense (thumbsu

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