ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[agamoto]

On 1/9/2024 at 12:09 PM, comicginger1789 said:

True...that would add a whoooolllleee other concern to the situation. So in addition to being super elaborate, it would have been an even more difficult scam to pull with this book. Perhaps that means there is a good chance it is legit for the owner then

I dunno... Stan Lee signed a LOT of books!

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 1/9/2024 at 1:54 PM, agamoto said:

Right, because DELETING any public record of evidence of fraud is EXACTLY what all these companies should be doing. 

JFC!!

God Forbid, I get back a CGC slab that is  , and "I know it is legit", but have to then "convince the internet" 

gocollect, and whomever else  "got brains?" to paraphrase the new green day album, and here I thought I was now "old", and music no longer made sense.......

Edited January 9 by ADAMANTIUM

[GDN]

I really hope GoCollect doesn't pull the records.  Maybe notate them as a known fraudulent book but don't destroy some of the only evidence out there.  A lot of the investigating on this thread relied on the high quality photos of old sales that GoCollect has.

[Darth Krayt]

Wow you slab guys are still here impressive but it want change anything good luck!

[wiparker824]

On 1/9/2024 at 1:11 PM, WolverineX said:

I took a break for a few days.  Is there a quick summary or youtube video about what has been uncovered about the seller? 

Not really that I know of, I recommend staying on a break. I should really consider such a thing.

[comicginger1789]

On 1/9/2024 at 3:13 PM, agamoto said:

I dunno... Stan Lee signed a LOT of books!

He did...but you'd be surprised how close one can come to signing like him in the later years when his signature was smushed and a little sloppier

[comicwiz]

This is the way. If you're on IG, please post and show a sign of support on redacting the records, deleting does no one any good. I was heading out to my son's practices, but felt it important to post something about this as the disappearance of data is unwise, especially in situations such as these. 

Edited January 9 by comicwiz

[pdags]

On 1/9/2024 at 3:21 PM, GDN said:

I really hope GoCollect doesn't pull the records.

Pulling records from a system of records is not good on record.

[wiparker824]

Honestly I don’t think GoCollect really thought it all through. I can’t imagine they want to try to be the authority on what is and isn’t a “fraudulent sale”. Just because a book is on this list does not mean it’s fraudulent. Just because a book isn’t on this list does not mean it’s not fraudulent. Furthermore a book may have multiple sales wherein some are fraudulent (after the scammer swapped it) and some are not (before the scammer swapped it). Also asking the community to report the fraudulent sales is a whole other problem. You are setting yourself up to have Seller A who wants to slander competitor Seller B by marking all of their sales as fraudulent. 

So, even if they believe removing sales data is the “right” thing to do I don’t think they’ve really thought thru what a headache that will become for them to police. It would be nice if they highlight books that are on CGC’s evolving list with a note but beyond that I don’t really think much else is a wise idea for them to entertain.

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 1/9/2024 at 2:43 PM, wiparker824 said:

Honestly I don’t think GoCollect really thought it all through. I can’t imagine they want to try to be the authority on what is and isn’t a “fraudulent sale”. Just because a book is on this list does not mean it’s fraudulent. Just because a book isn’t on this list does not mean it’s not fraudulent. Furthermore a book may have multiple sales wherein some are fraudulent (after the scammer swapped it) and some are not (before the scammer swapped it). Also asking the community to report the fraudulent sales is a whole other problem. You are setting yourself up to have Seller A who wants to slander competitor Seller B by marking all of their sales as fraudulent. 

So, even if they believe removing sales data is the “right” thing to do I don’t think they’ve really thought thru what a headache that will become for them to police. It would be nice if they highlight books that are on CGC’s evolving list with a note but beyond that I don’t really think much else is a wise idea for them to entertain.

Those were my 1st thoughts too

[Heronext]

Agree with ComicWiz and all above, but pulling bad records, i.e. suspected manipulated/shilled sales, has always been policy of GPA (and GoCollect I assume), and I think every time this has come up before, people generally agree it's what the hobby wants

They should maybe be kept and tagged

@gpanalysisIf you have not chimed in on this already, have you decided how to approach this?

Edited January 9 by Heronext

[royaluglydudes]

One other thing concerning me about GoCollect's statement is that there is no mention of having to prove the fraud or of a mechanism to do so.

[GDN]

I understand people wanting fraudulent sales pulled out of FMV calculations on GPA and GoCollect....like when someone shill bids up the sale and it never really completes.

But in this case the sale price on a lot of these are still a valid sale.  Even if the book inside was a Green label H181, the sale of the "Blue label H181" reflects a fair sale of a blue H181 in said grade.  Could still be valid in an FMV calculation.

[Heronext]

On 1/9/2024 at 3:53 PM, GDN said:

I understand people wanting fraudulent sales pulled out of FMV calculations on GPA and GoCollect....like when someone shill bids up the sale and it never really completes.

But in this case the sale price on a lot of these are still a valid sale.  Even if the book inside was a Green label H181, the sale of the "Blue label H181" reflects a fair sale of a blue H181 in said grade.  Could still be valid in an FMV calculation.

There are "valid" sales yes but also shill sales are apparently a part of his M.O.; this came out somewhere in the previous 300 pages; I believe this is what GoCollect refers to removing

Edited January 9 by Heronext

[GDN]

On 1/9/2024 at 12:54 PM, Heronext said:

There are "valid" sales yes but also shill sales are apparently a part of his M.O.; this came out somewhere in the previous 300 pages; I believe this is what GoCollect refers to removing

Very true.  I'm not sure how GoCollect will figure out which ones may have been shill sales.  If they want to pull all the affected books on CGC's list from FMV calculations then I do hope they still allow them to be searched and high quality photos retained.

 

[BigLeagueCHEW]

On 1/9/2024 at 12:25 PM, Darth Krayt said:

Wow you slab guys are still here impressive but it want change anything good luck!

Say again

[shadroch]

On 1/9/2024 at 11:13 AM, NewWorldOrder said:

CGC is not going to discuss an ongoing investigation with anyone outside of the company and the police.

General public isn't going to be getting a play by play.

Every day that passes reduces the public's confidence in them.  If they think a one-and-done statement is going to restore confidence in their product, they are sadly mistaken.

[EastEnd1]

On 1/9/2024 at 4:08 PM, shadroch said:

Every day that passes reduces the public's confidence in them.  If they think a one-and-done statement is going to restore confidence in their product, they are sadly mistaken.

I think the upcoming auctions from the larger platforms like Heritage, ComicLink, ComicConnect, etc will give us an indication of what effect there has been, if any, on customer confidence.  The results will also likely inform CGC's plans for further disclosure and changes.

[WolverineX]

On 1/9/2024 at 3:26 PM, wiparker824 said:

Not really that I know of, I recommend staying on a break. I should really consider such a thing.

ok I'll check back in a few days to see where this rabbit hole has gone

[comicjel]

Is there really a good reason that someone with a 9.8 Universal "normal" label book would send it to CGC just to get a custom label put on it?

The whole custom label option should have just been exclusively when a book was being originally graded period!