ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[NewWorldOrder]

On 1/9/2024 at 3:37 PM, wiparker824 said:

There are things about your case that are unique and largely important even if the book you bought happens to be legit. A lot of the sales of these books were funneled thru an eBay account or two or three, which are also important but don’t have the same interactions as a private sale. I really do hope the effort was not wasted and that it’s being investigated. 

Also to keep in mind while I agree I am sure he had some "rat holes" doesnt mean the scammer showed his skills to others.

Personally if I were the scammer I would keep the process to myself, but just need others to sell the items through.

Does that make sense?

[mrd160]

On 1/9/2024 at 6:42 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Also to keep in mind while I agree I am sure he had some "rat holes" doesnt mean the scammer showed his skills to others.

Personally if I were the scammer I would keep the process to myself, but just need others to sell the items through.

Does that make sense?

Knowing the people involved. I do not agree. I won’t post it here but there is evidence out there that I have shared with CGC

[skybolt]

On 1/9/2024 at 5:26 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Didn't you just prove my point with some?

Zero chance you can stop micro-trimming consistently with out the help of maybe AI.

I have no proof it is still happening and I hope to God it is not, but there stopping a professional seems impossible unlike this current scandal at the CGC level.

You'd hope that CGC has learned their lesson when it comes to trimming high dollar books. If today they spotted 5 out of a 20 book submission as trimmed, you'd think they'd start looking into the submitter's history for similar occurrences.

[NewWorldOrder]

On 1/9/2024 at 3:43 PM, mrd160 said:

Knowing the people involved. I do not agree. I won’t post it here but there is evidence out there that I have shared with CGC

I am saying how I would do it.  The scammer was even more moronic to show others how he did it if that is the case (pun intended lol).

[mrd160]

On 1/9/2024 at 6:45 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

I am saying how I would do it.  The scammer was even more moronic to show others how he did it if that is the case (pun intended lol).

He is a garbage human being. I speak from PERSONAL info 

[wiparker824]

On 1/9/2024 at 4:44 PM, skybolt said:

You'd hope that CGC has learned their lesson when it comes to trimming high dollar books. If today they spotted 5 out of a 20 book submission as trimmed, you'd think they'd start looking into the submitter's history for similar occurrences.

Well yes but you’d also think if someone submitted over 10% of the total ASM 194 9.8’s  in the census likely entirely as reholders they’d have started looking into the submitters history too… but apparently that didn’t happen. I don’t know that they have the best record at the moment with monitoring what are to most obvious red flags. 

[mrd160]

 

[NewWorldOrder]

On 1/9/2024 at 3:41 PM, BrashL said:

Man you love those straw men don't you. So easy to knock down.

 

It's also hard to have a rationale conversation with someone who thinks every CGC slab since 2000 is now null and void. 

Edited January 9 by NewWorldOrder

[wiparker824]

On 1/9/2024 at 4:45 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

I am saying how I would do it.  The scammer was even more moronic to show others how he did it if that is the case (pun intended lol).

Not everyone has the same financial means or the inventory on hand. When you have said financial means or inventory on hand sometimes you may hear a “get rich quick” scheme pitched to you which is usually a scam. Not saying this did or didn’t happen, but there are many reasons why a scammer involves other parties, this is one example.

[NewWorldOrder]

On 1/9/2024 at 3:50 PM, wiparker824 said:

Not everyone has the same financial means or the inventory on hand. When you have said financial means or inventory on hand sometimes you may hear a “get rich quick” scheme pitched to you which is usually a scam. Not saying this did or didn’t happen, but there are many reasons why a scammer involves other parties, this is one example.

True, but like we both agree.  We just many never know the full details.

Edited January 9 by NewWorldOrder

[skybolt]

On 1/9/2024 at 5:28 PM, mrd160 said:

Here’s another take that may not be that popular here,CGC is technically the victim. What’s happening here is not their fault they have to take responsibility, I get it, but the companies been taking advantage of by a bad actor. That’s not me being a CGC apologist it happens to be a fact

I'll buy that, but at the same time, the victim needs to go hard after the perpetrator (s). 

[skybolt]

On 1/9/2024 at 5:36 PM, Ron C. said:

CGC does need to update their slab though. The books that came in today from them (at least the ones that were not cracked....one small piece of bubble wrap for 5 books) all look like they were put together by a pre-school class with a glue gun. Even legitimate books look like they have been tampered with.

Maybe your slabs were holdered during bring your kid to work day. 

[Sigur Ros]

On 1/9/2024 at 5:19 PM, paqart said:

Many people here keep saying that what Ewert did is worse than the reslabbing fiend in the present case. Why?

It wasn't worse, of course.

CGC missing a whole bunch of resto is very bad, but it was trimming.

This is CGC giving expensive books with missing insides blue, 9.8 labels.

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 1/9/2024 at 7:04 PM, Sigur Ros said:

This is CGC giving expensive books with missing insides blue, 9.8 labels.

Not exactly.  I haven’t seen a 9.8 Hulk 181 involved in the scam.

[brute_nm]

On 1/9/2024 at 5:14 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Not exactly.  I haven’t seen a 9.8 Hulk 181 involved in the scam.

Not yet. A green label 9.8 sold on Heritage in November, maybe it was our guy 

• Green label: $9600
• Blue label: $55-60k

Pretty serious potential ROI, assuming he had the cash flow to sink $10k on the green label

Edited January 10 by brute_nm

[Sigur Ros]

On 1/9/2024 at 6:31 PM, mrd160 said:

CGC is not the bad guy here. It’s the scammer/scammers

Scammers don't approve IH181's with missing pages and missing stamps for new holders with blue labels.

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 1/9/2024 at 7:15 PM, brute_nm said:

Not yet. A green label 9.8 sold on Heritage in November, maybe it was our guy 

Green label: $9600

Blue label: $55-60k

Pretty serious ROI

Would take some balls to crack an actual 9.8 Hulk 181

What’s a blue label 9.6 go for?

Edited January 10 by THE_BEYONDER

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 1/9/2024 at 7:15 PM, brute_nm said:

assuming he had the cash flow to sink $10k on the green label

I don’t think cash flow is a problem for someone doing the switcheroo for many years.  They would need the 50k to buy an actual 9.8 blue as well.

[Stefan_W]

On 1/9/2024 at 5:45 PM, bc said:

So custom labels were introduced in July 2016 (thanks to whoever posted this earlier).

One of the better known board catches with custom label scams goes back to July 2020:

Not saying this could have been a catalyst for the current scammer, but it showed potential flaws with the "elective" reholder process.

Almost makes me want to graph out the dates that this scheme involved to see if there is a noticeable growth pattern around specific periods and custom label timeframes or changes to the ME process.

-bc

EDIT: It actually goes back farther than that:

 

 

The topic I brought up was restored comics that were identified as being restored on the slab, and when you look up the book in the CGC registry, but the label color was not purple. This was specific to that generation of custom labels where they were all blue. From the perspective of the topic I was bringing up (and that you cited) I do not see the issue as being the same as the current topic of a fraudulent seller duping people. Having said this I am sure a few people who were not paying attention may have paid full price for these books because they were blue label, but the info was there for them had they looked. 

Edited January 10 by Stefan_W

[GDN]

On 1/9/2024 at 2:52 PM, Superman2006 said:

Not just directed to you since everyone seems to have read the gocollect statement in the same way, but I don't see where gocollect's statement indicates that they will be deleting records, instead they state they will "remove the threat" of buying a book that isn't what it claims to be by providing you with prior scans for a given cert #. At least that's the way I read it.

"Any fraudulent sales can be reported directly to GoCollect for removal from our database"

That is the line I and others have issue with.  Not the "remove the threat" line.

Edit:  I see GoCollect has responded on IG to Comicwiz and they state: "We agree these kinds of records should not be deleted.  They will be segregated and removed only from impacting the valuation of a particular item"

So all should be well.

Edited January 10 by GDN