ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[shadroch]

On 2/19/2024 at 4:59 PM, comicjel said:

Don't you run the exact same risk by buying a raw book that looks to be in NM, selling it to someone, and they get it graded and find out it is color touched?  Wouldn't they still want their money back from you?

All that said... you have any raw high grade ASMs #1 - #50 for sale??  

If I buy a book that looks NM, I don't simply slap a price tag on it. If I sell a book that has a color touch I missed, of course, I'll refund the person.

I've got tons of modern Spideys, but am out of the SA game besides what is on consignment. 

[comicjel]

On 2/19/2024 at 9:27 PM, shadroch said:

If I buy a book that looks NM, I don't simply slap a price tag on it. If I sell a book that has a color touch I missed, of course, I'll refund the person.

I've got tons of modern Spideys, but am out of the SA game besides what is on consignment. 

I thought I was good at detecting color touch, until I started getting many of my raw books graded - you may be better than I was at detecting it - if you pick it up almost 100% of the time kudos to you!

My point is that there is risk either way, albeit they may be different items that cause the risk.

But I get your point too, it is frustrating that there is any risk that there could be a missing MVS in a universal holder - that is a frustrating new development!

One other factor in buying valuable raw books is that so many dealers get their high grade valuable books graded to maximize the sales proceeds, such that when you see a high grade valuable raw book being sold now, there is a higher probability that there is a reason that it has not been graded, as compared to a while ago.

LOL, I had an engineer friend that enjoyed parachuting, until it hit him that the parachute worked 99.999999% of the time, while the law of gravity was 100%   

[shadroch]

I don't have to pick it up 100% of the time. I have to stand by the book if I sell it. I can't do that if the book is encased.

[comicjel]

On 2/19/2024 at 10:20 PM, shadroch said:

I don't have to pick it up 100% of the time. I have to stand by the book if I sell it. I can't do that if the book is encased.

I understand your point.

But if you think about it, you actually can stand by the book if it is encased, in the same way that you can stand by a raw book that it has not been color touched.

In both cases, you can stand by the book even though you are not 100% certain that there will not be a problem (missing MVS for the encased book) or (undetected color touch for the raw book). 

What you actually can't do is have 100% confidence that you will not be burned by either unfortunate event.

You trust yourself enough to feel that you will fare better if you stick strictly with raw books.

Others may feel that they would fare better by sticking with graded books.

Neither one is 100% without risk.    

 

  

Edited February 20 by comicjel

[NewWorldOrder]

On 2/19/2024 at 5:24 PM, sledgehammer said:

Bad assumption, and he does say something contrary to that.

Otherwise, ....wait, not a CGC mis grade either.

Dammit, I thought you at least had the last one.

I tell you what, watch the video until he starts talking about the Vampirella 9.8.

Then, say to yourself, in this submission of 23 books, what are the odds that two of the books that were graded 9.8, had three different individual lines of grader notes, regarding damage to the book.

And one of them looks like a very fine minus.

 

On 2/19/2024 at 5:31 PM, BrashL said:

That’s a pretty big leap I think. An 8.0 labeled as a 9.8 is at least as likely to be a case swap. We know from the court filing and comicwiz’s with that there are plenty of the latter. 

Just easier to quote you both. 

I mean until it is known whether the original submitter did in fact receive the same book then this all just speculation. The defects on the book would make it pretty clear as well.

I think there is more information that needs to be known.  Could you say maybe it was switched out by that employee? Maybe, I am sure CGC would look into since it the book was graded in 2022 while that employee was working for them. 

The real questions would be who ever submitted it raw.  Did they get the same book back they originally submitted? Why did the original submitter sell it like that and not sent it back to CGC? How did the guy who sold it to Bryce not see it as well when he bought it?  Because if they got the same book back that was originally submitted then it's could simply be a mis-grade (by mis-grade I mean the grader probably selected the wrong grade by accident on the computer screen). I assume that happens.  Also bad on the original submitter if they did not send it back to CGC and sold it to Bryce's customer that for whatever reason also lacked the basic "buy the book not the grade" and to be honest blind as bat.  Now the rebuttal is why didnt QC catch it, valid 110%. 

I think the problem now is everyone is quick to jump the gun without asking more questions.  Over the years most seasoned people here have seen situations happen and it's more an oversight than criminal.  Case in point me just last month.  I submitted a Daredevil #168, it came back a CGC 9.6.  I knew that was way too high, sure enough I got the book back and it was a VF+ book sitting in a 9.6 holder.  I assumed it was a CGC grading mistake because I got back the SAME BOOK I submitted originally, and it was higher then what I graded it at.  So I sent it back via ME, they re-graded it correctly and I have it back now as the correct grade of CGC 8.5.  No idea if the grader just had slip of a keystroke/mouse click, or just for whatever reason graded it wrong that day, but it sure wasn't anything criminal about it, but rather a mistake by the grader and QC not catching it.

So unless CGC is trying to make me more money because they like me it was just an internal mistake.

Edited February 20 by NewWorldOrder

[comicjel]

On 2/19/2024 at 11:09 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Just easier to quote you both. 

I mean until it is known whether the original submitter did in fact receive the same book then this all just speculation. The defects on the book would make it pretty clear as well.

I think there is more information that needs to be known.  Could you say maybe it was switched out by that employee? Maybe, I am sure CGC would look into since it the book was graded in 2022 while that employee was working for them. 

The real questions would be who ever submitted it raw.  Did they get the same book they originally submitted? Why did the original submitter sell it like that? How did the guy who sold it to Bryce not see it as well when he bought it?  Because if they got the same book back that was originally submitted then it's could simply be a mis-grade (by mis-grade I mean the grader probably selected the wrong grade by accident on the computer screen). I assume that happens.  Also bad on the original submitter if they did not send it back to CGC and sold it to Bryce's customer that for whatever reason also lacked the basic "buy the book not the grade" and to be honest blind as bat.  Now the rebuttal is why didnt QC catch it, valid 110%. 

I think the problem now is everyone is quick to jump the gun without asking more questions.  Over the years most seasoned people here have seen situations happen and it's more an oversight than criminal.  Case in point me just last month.  I submitted a Daredevil #168, it came back a CGC 9.6.  I knew that was way too high, sure enough I got the book back and it was a VF+ book sitting in a 9.6 holder.  I assumed it was a CGC grading mistake because I got back the SAME BOOK I submitted originally, and it was higher then what I graded it at.  So I sent it back via ME, they re-graded it correctly and I have it back now as the correct grade of CGC 8.5.  No idea if the grader just had slip of a keystroke/mouse click, or just for whatever reason graded it wrong that day, but it sure wasn't anything criminal about it, but rather a mistake by the grader and QC not catching it.

So unless CGC is trying to make me more money because they like me it was just an internal mistake.

LOL, I can attest to a CGC "mis-grade"!...

[AJD]

On 2/20/2024 at 3:38 PM, comicjel said:

LOL, I can attest to a CGC "mis-grade"!...

@Point Five is this your younger brother?

[Coverless 9.8]

On 2/20/2024 at 1:02 AM, szav said:

Nice.... hope you don't plan to fix that if its yours.

Grader Notes: Dude, I got a lot of books to grade!  

[Sigur Ros]

On 2/19/2024 at 7:29 PM, BrashL said:

I believe Bry’s Comics just posted an example on his YouTube channel.

This is where we are now. 

These YT CGC fanboys are assuming every overgraded book is now under suspicion for being part of these scams, instead of just another in the long history of overgraded CGC books we've seen in the Quality Control thread and elsewhere for the past 10 years.

CGC loves these scammers.

Now they can blame all that overgrading on someone else.

[AJD]

On 2/20/2024 at 8:14 PM, Sigur Ros said:

This is where we are now. 

These YT CGC fanboys are assuming every overgraded book is now under suspicion for being part of these scams, instead of just another in the long history of overgraded CGC books we've seen in the Quality Control thread and elsewhere for the past 10 years.

CGC loves these scammers.

Now they can blame all that overgrading on someone else.

It has all of the hallmarks of the known scam, especially the very specific grading notes on a 9.8. It's really not that big a stretch to consider it under suspicion.

[sledgehammer]

On 2/19/2024 at 10:09 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Just easier to quote you both. 

I mean until it is known whether the original submitter did in fact receive the same book then this all just speculation. The defects on the book would make it pretty clear as well.

I think there is more information that needs to be known.  Could you say maybe it was switched out by that employee? Maybe, I am sure CGC would look into since it the book was graded in 2022 while that employee was working for them. 

The real questions would be who ever submitted it raw.  Did they get the same book back they originally submitted? Why did the original submitter sell it like that and not sent it back to CGC? How did the guy who sold it to Bryce not see it as well when he bought it?  Because if they got the same book back that was originally submitted then it's could simply be a mis-grade (by mis-grade I mean the grader probably selected the wrong grade by accident on the computer screen). I assume that happens.  Also bad on the original submitter if they did not send it back to CGC and sold it to Bryce's customer that for whatever reason also lacked the basic "buy the book not the grade" and to be honest blind as bat.  Now the rebuttal is why didnt QC catch it, valid 110%. 

I think the problem now is everyone is quick to jump the gun without asking more questions. 

I think that the only problem is, that you like to stop by and read two posts on a page, and have to ask somebody else to send you a link to a YouTube video that was posted that same day.

I looked up all of the CGC certification numbers, for all of the other 22 books in that submission, and coincidentally, at least nine of them were the books that scam boy targets, put into inner sleeves in slabs, with the exact kinds of grades that would be used to do this scam.

but you missed that, because you don't really give a hoot about what anybody else is saying here.

I came to the conclusion, quite a while ago already, that your only perspective is that of a guy that makes his living, selling CGC graded comic books.

do me a favor, and stop trying to blow smoke up my butt.

Edited February 20 by sledgehammer
your

[sledgehammer]

On 2/19/2024 at 10:09 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

I think there is more information that needs to be known.  Could you say maybe it was switched out by that employee? Maybe, I am sure CGC would look into since it the book was graded in 2022 while that employee was working for them. 

Why does it need to have been an employee?

If it wasn't, and it was Zanello, or what can't possibly have ONLY been Zanello that has been doing this for the last DOCUMENTED TO BE SIX YEARS,  CGC has already told us, within THE LAST WEEK, that unless it is on their list, YOU ARE SOOL for being reimbursed for buying it from someone.

Thank God, that they'll "look into it".

[sledgehammer]

Can someone check GO Collect for the possibly ebay history of Tales of the Teen Titans #44, CGC 9.8,  sold for $650 on June 29, 2022?

I don't see that it has a record on GPA after that.

Of course, sale prices peaked shortly before that at $850, and plummeted after that.

[sledgehammer]

On 2/19/2024 at 11:26 AM, sledgehammer said:

The grader's notes on that NTT are insanely unusual. The same submission, has a 9.4 with NO notes.

Here are some other books in that same youtube video new titans submission.

4046486005   ASM  316   9.0

4046486006  ASM  361   9.2

4046486007  SW 8  9.8

4046486008  SW 8  9.8

4046486010  ASM  252  9.0

4046486011  ASM  252  9.0

4046486012  ASM  252  9.4

4046486014  ASM  238  6.0

4046486015  HULK 340  9.0

4046486016  HULK  340  9.0

Maybe CGC could indulge us this one time, and tell us if this was a "zanello"  submission.  @MattM CS

If it was, the New Teen Titans book in the video is likely another of his scams, not currently on the list

So I said to myself, "I would bet anything, that there is no history of the lower grade certification numbers selling on GPA.

Guess what?

Not one. Ever.  I wonder why? 

The only books from that submission, noted above, to have any record of being sold, were the 9.8s.

One of he 9.8 Secret Wars 9.8 sold within weeks of the grade date, and never again.

The other 9.8 sold 3 different times over the years.

 

[comicjel]

On 2/20/2024 at 1:02 AM, szav said:

Nice.... hope you don't plan to fix that if its yours.

No, I purchased it like this... I wanted to have the lowest grade CGC book ever (but maybe there is a .2 out there??)

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 2/19/2024 at 10:38 PM, comicjel said:

LOL, I can attest to a CGC "mis-grade"!...

On 2/19/2024 at 11:11 PM, AJD said:

@Point Five is this your younger brother?

[comicjel]

On 2/20/2024 at 8:31 AM, sledgehammer said:

Can someone check GO Collect for the possibly ebay history of Tales of the Teen Titans #44, CGC 9.8,  sold for $650 on June 29, 2022?

I don't see that it has a record on GPA after that.

Of course, sale prices peaked shortly before that at $850, and plummeted after that.

Just checked - no 6/29/22 sale on GoCollect - they do show one sale of it on 8/22/22 for $700 - it is the same comic pictured - was kind of a deceiving group of photos, in that showed several close ups, but none of the lower right corner (also no cream carpet background).

Let me know if you need other info about it.

 

[Point Five]

On 2/19/2024 at 11:38 PM, comicjel said:

LOL, I can attest to a CGC "mis-grade"!...

Quality Control that day:

[flchris]

On 2/20/2024 at 8:41 AM, comicjel said:

Just checked - no 6/29/22 sale on GoCollect - they do show one sale of it on 8/22/22 for $700 - it is the same comic pictured - was kind of a deceiving group of photos, in that showed several close ups, but none of the lower right corner (also no cream carpet background).

Let me know if you need other info about it.

 

@sledgehammer Actually see one that says #4030260006 sold for $492 on 6/29/22.

[sledgehammer]

On 2/20/2024 at 9:38 AM, flchris said:

On 2/20/2024 at 8:41 AM, comicjel said:

Just checked - no 6/29/22 sale on GoCollect - they do show one sale of it on 8/22/22 for $700 - it is the same comic pictured - was kind of a deceiving group of photos, in that showed several close ups, but none of the lower right corner (also no cream carpet background).

Let me know if you need other info about it.

 

@sledgehammer Actually see one that says #4030260006 sold for $492 on 6/29/22.

Thanks.  That's not the one with this cert #, also sold that day only, on GPA  4046486023.