What is going on with CGC Card Grading of Sports Cards - 6,000 Sports Cards Graded in December? 1 1

[Leiataua Dr. Jon]

Greetings,

According to the December Gem Rate data, CGC graded a mere 6,000 sports cards last month.  What in the world is going on CGC with your sports cards grading?  Three quarters of my slabs are in CGC holders!  I may have to start cracking them out and getting them into a competitor's slab if things don't improve soon with your numbers of sports cards graded.  

Why not try lowering your prices?

Why not try some innovative marketing strategies?

Why not try improving the liquidity of your sports cards slabs?

Something has got to change with the CGC sports cards grading because a few more months of this and the slabs are going to be worth the same as HGA, TAG, and Arena Club...

Edited January 2 by Leiataua Dr. Jon

[NickiO CS]

Hello @Leiataua Dr. Jon,

Thank you for reaching out to us. While I cannot speak to the data being shared by a third party, I would be happy to share your feedback and concerns with our management team. With the merger of CGC Trading Cards and CGC Sports Cards in June 2023, CGC Cards solidified its position as one of the world’s largest and most prominent card grading services. Grading virtually all TCGs, sports cards, and non-sports cards, CGC Cards will also feature a number of collector-friendly upgrades, including non-member submissions, a Gem Mint 10 grade, and a sleek new label that blends seamlessly with cards. In the months since the merger, CGC Cards has continued to focus on growth and improvement of processes. 

If you have any questions or need help with any submission, please let us know. 

[Leiataua Dr. Jon]

Okay, thanks for the prompt reply.  The Gem Rate data is considered by most, if not all, within the hobby as industry-standard.  Your sports cards Gem Mint 10 rates are the lowest between the big four grading companies and almost a full 15 percent lower than PSA's.  That is KILLING you all in the market for those who desire Gem Mint 10 grades which, we all know, carry a premium in terms of resale value (not everyone is a collector).  How about you lighten up on the grades for Gem Mint 10's and start getting aligned with the big 3 in terms of Gem 10 rates?  And, 9.5's?  They are considered 9's by just about any person you ask - get rid of the 9.5 grade.  The 9.5 grade carries no more value than a CGC 9 and most people I know in the hobby would take a PSA 9 over a CGC 9.5.  It's meaningless and is one of the main reasons people do not grade with CGC.  It's either a Pristine 10, a Gem Mint 10 or a 9.  Get rid of 9.5's.

Also, I am well familiar with the new label - I like it but, that's been going on for months now.  I'd like to see you all do more promotions around grading fees that are lower for all types of hobbyists (collectors, dealers, flippers, etc.).  Most of the companies are running cool promotions like that and I do not see CGC doing ANY of that type of marketing around grading fees that are lowered via promotions that are hip and generate buzz.  Get creative and start trying new cool things!  Not everything is going to "hit" but at least you'll be doing something aka marketing to get the word out more about how great CGC is (which you are but nobody hears about it!).  CGC slabs the obviously the best in class slabs anywhere...start leveraging that by lowering the grading fees and undercut PSA.  PSA is still charging $20 for bulk which is ridiculous.  People continue to use PSA though because their slabs have the greatest liquidity and hold the greatest value (it's not because their actual slabs are better than yours!).

I'm going to be blunt: if CGC doesn't get it together and start pushing their services for sports cards grading -and hard- in 2024, there will not be any more sports cards grading at CGC, moving forward.  CGC CLEARLY has the BEST slab of all in the market.  Maybe it's time to really start marketing all of the great things about CGC graded sports cards and stop using TCG, comics, coins, and other items being graded as a crutch/excuse for why you're not moving the dial on the sports cards grading front.  

Y'all need to ramp up your marketing big time if you're going to be anywhere close to relevant in grading sports cards.  That is, unless your planning to drop the grading of sports cards and focus on TCG, comics, coins, etc. exclusively.  Don't become the next HGA...I've been behind you all since late 2021 with the sports cards grading but things need to get better and quick.  Otherwise, I don't know that I'll ever grade another card with CGC and that's just me being honest.  If you're a collector, it may be different but I both collect and do sports cards as a business and right now CGC graded sports cards need a "jump start" and soon.

I own three businesses that are successful, I have a doctorate, and know how to market.  How about I consult a little for you all and we get this sports cards grading thing turned around?

Blackstone, Fanatics, and CGC...let's go!

[mrbulldog]

On 1/3/2024 at 4:31 PM, Leiataua Dr. Jon said:

Okay, thanks for the prompt reply.  The Gem Rate data is considered by most, if not all, within the hobby as industry-standard.  Your sports cards Gem Mint 10 rates are the lowest between the big four grading companies and almost a full 15 percent lower than PSA's.  That is KILLING you all in the market for those who desire Gem Mint 10 grades which, we all know, carry a premium in terms of resale value (not everyone is a collector).  How about you lighten up on the grades for Gem Mint 10's and start getting aligned with the big 3 in terms of Gem 10 rates?  And, 9.5's?  They are considered 9's by just about any person you ask - get rid of the 9.5 grade.  The 9.5 grade carries no more value than a CGC 9 and most people I know in the hobby would take a PSA 9 over a CGC 9.5.  It's meaningless and is one of the main reasons people do not grade with CGC.  It's either a Pristine 10, a Gem Mint 10 or a 9.  Get rid of 9.5's.

Also, I am well familiar with the new label - I like it but, that's been going on for months now.  I'd like to see you all do more promotions around grading fees that are lower for all types of hobbyists (collectors, dealers, flippers, etc.).  Most of the companies are running cool promotions like that and I do not see CGC doing ANY of that type of marketing around grading fees that are lowered via promotions that are hip and generate buzz.  Get creative and start trying new cool things!  Not everything is going to "hit" but at least you'll be doing something aka marketing to get the word out more about how great CGC is (which you are but nobody hears about it!).  CGC slabs the obviously the best in class slabs anywhere...start leveraging that by lowering the grading fees and undercut PSA.  PSA is still charging $20 for bulk which is ridiculous.  People continue to use PSA though because their slabs have the greatest liquidity and hold the greatest value (it's not because their actual slabs are better than yours!).

I'm going to be blunt: if CGC doesn't get it together and start pushing their services for sports cards grading -and hard- in 2024, there will not be any more sports cards grading at CGC, moving forward.  CGC CLEARLY has the BEST slab of all in the market.  Maybe it's time to really start marketing all of the great things about CGC graded sports cards and stop using TCG, comics, coins, and other items being graded as a crutch/excuse for why you're not moving the dial on the sports cards grading front.  

Y'all need to ramp up your marketing big time if you're going to be anywhere close to relevant in grading sports cards.  That is, unless your planning to drop the grading of sports cards and focus on TCG, comics, coins, etc. exclusively.  Don't become the next HGA...I've been behind you all since late 2021 with the sports cards grading but things need to get better and quick.  Otherwise, I don't know that I'll ever grade another card with CGC and that's just me being honest.  If you're a collector, it may be different but I both collect and do sports cards as a business and right now CGC graded sports cards need a "jump start" and soon.

I own three businesses that are successful, I have a doctorate, and know how to market.  How about I consult a little for you all and we get this sports cards grading thing turned around?

Blackstone, Fanatics, and CGC...let's go!

 

[mrbulldog]

The reason that nobody uses CGC is because they tried to "reinvent " the grading standards set by the 500lbls gorilla named PSA.

i submitted a bunch of 1984 Topps based on PSA10  pictures because there are not any CGC graded 1984 Pete Rose etc etc to refer because nobody uses there grading service's.

I was hammered by there graders; why would a company try to reinvent the wheel ill never know?   

I will never submit another card to CGC again.

I think CGC magazine grading on the other hand is awesome!!  Fair grades and awesome slabs!.

[1980sMoshPit]

I have 192 cards with CGC now in two separate submissions awaiting grading.  Chose CGC over the big one due to the most extreme inconsistency that could exist.   I did crackouts over on that side and grades changed from a 7 to a 10 in one case,  multiple 8s to 9s,  and the reverse.    It was nutty.  Grading there depends on how bad the day is for the grader after the hot chick told him to go away the night before. 

 

Am staying here.   

[TwoYewts]

Completely agree with MoshPit.  I came over to CGC because I was sick and tired of paying high submission fees over at the 500lb gorilla's place only to get ridiculously inconsistent grading back.  I find CGC's slabs superior to other slabs in the industry, bulk pricing that I can afford and the most important of it all...consistent grading.  But, I am a primarily PC collector and I do understand and agree with the argument that the gorilla gets you more bang for the buck.

[mrbulldog]

CGC resale value is horrible. They do have the best slabs.

[Junk Wax Addict]

I have done about all I can do to help raise prices of CSG graded cards, Lord knows how many I’ve bought on eBay and the countless others that I bid on, didn’t win, but helped push the final sale price up.  The downside is when I want to sell a CSG graded card, I would be better off throwing it in the trash and walking away.  For what little I get for them, it is hardly worth the time getting them listed on eBay,

[Leiataua Dr. Jon]

I appreciate each and every comment/post on this thread.  What I find so frustrating about CGC is the lack of marketing their sports cards slabs.  They are the BEST slabs, bar none, in the industry and hobby.  For the life of me, I don't know why they don't do more to promote all of the positive things that you all have said on this thread.  They need to stop being so hard on modern cards with their grading and get RID of 9.5's.  We need more CGC slabs in the market right now.  That will take hard work, intentionality, and creative marketing to get people to grade with CGC sports cards.  Honestly, I think they care more about grading other things like TCG, Comics, coins, etc. than they do for sports cards.  It's time for CGC to decide: are they going to really continue to engage in grading sports cards, or not.  I agree that they are great for collectors, but if you EVER plan to sell them at any point in your hobby journey, be you a collector, flipper, and/or an investor, you will get pennies on the dollar for their slabs because there isn't enough supply or demand in the market for their graded slabs to warrant a person paying a premium consistent with PSA and, to a lesser degree, BGS and SGC.  

I hope someone from CGC can respond to this thread again and tell us what they are planning to up their game.  I just cracked 13 CSG and CGC slabs in the past 2-3 days for submitting to PSA for their special for modern at $15.  It's totally worth it to do so at that price point given that CGC is only a few bucks less and I can get a far better return and liquidity by selling with PSA.  I've got another stack of CSG and CGC slabs that I plan to crack and submit to PSA in the next few days...CGC, get your mess together or I won't own a single card in one of your slabs in a year or less.  Not one.

[MAR1979]

Lowering standards is the fastest and most foolish way to become irrelevant. If you want to compete with PSA you must be just as if not MORE harsh as they are! 

It will take time but as Collector perception improves, then cements, FMV's thus subs will follow. 

Collector's perception is very slow to change, at least in a positive direction, to truly compete with PSA a 5-7 year plan is required. A plan that must include strict + consistent standards.  If CGC is doing this then Kudos.

 

P.S. Beckett and SGC + others have tried loose standards, thus they are no longer any actual competition to PSA.  They are bottom feeders feeding solely on PSA's poop .

Edited January 10 by MAR1979

[Scottish Punk]

I feel you Dr.  I was shocked when i saw those numbers.  CGC is going backwards in the sports card market.  SGC is eating their lunch for a clear number two to PSA.  CGC has really bungled everything from the get go in regards to rolling out the sports cards side.  Created its own entity, really ugly labels, yanked subgrades away, messed with vintage grading standards, changed grading scale.  Each of these moves, even it was for the better, eroded goodwill and confidence in the brand.  For the life of me, I don't know why they didn't just keep the same blue labels as every other vertical in their portfolio.  That is their brand identity.  Keep subgrades as well.  If I had a bunch of Marvel graded cards, I would want them to match the comic slabs.

I agree with you that they need to get a big marketing push for sports cards if they are indeed serious about staying around in the market.  By merging the sports card brand into CGC, it seems to be an after thought now.  If you look at instagram posts, it is overwhelmingly posts with Pokemon.  Social media, youtube has a ton of SGC reveals and people talking them up.  Almost nothing with CGC (outside of pokemon).

I don't know an easy fix.  More specials and promotions is a great start.  SGC does well with their bowman/topps release ones.  Talking up the slab is great.  Maybe they have some automated processes that curtail fraud/trimming which would be a competitive advantage?  As far as grading, you are correct modern gem rate numbers are not good.  I disagree with the removal of 9.5.  I don't want to see a billion weak 10's like PSA slabs that look just like 9's since they are coin flip.  They should align closely to SGC I would think.  The other problem I have with their grading is that the vintage grading is closing to BVG (weak soft) than PSA/SGC.  Small sample size, but just about every card from the 70's on back that a cracked out in either direction SGC/CGC, the CGC gets a full grade bump.  That does not inspire confidence.  Grading softly on vintage and harshly on modern, the worst of both worlds. lol. 

I have been close to switching to CGC from SGC.  Keep waiting for the market to get better.  Events - no subs, label change, combine with CGC, gemrate data.  Seems like a big event keeps happening and the market needs to reset.

 

 

  

[Leiataua Dr. Jon]

On 1/8/2024 at 2:46 PM, Scottish Punk said:

I feel you Dr.  I was shocked when i saw those numbers.  CGC is going backwards in the sports card market.  SGC is eating their lunch for a clear number two to PSA.  CGC has really bungled everything from the get go in regards to rolling out the sports cards side.  Created its own entity, really ugly labels, yanked subgrades away, messed with vintage grading standards, changed grading scale.  Each of these moves, even it was for the better, eroded goodwill and confidence in the brand.  For the life of me, I don't know why they didn't just keep the same blue labels as every other vertical in their portfolio.  That is their brand identity.  Keep subgrades as well.  If I had a bunch of Marvel graded cards, I would want them to match the comic slabs.

I agree with you that they need to get a big marketing push for sports cards if they are indeed serious about staying around in the market.  By merging the sports card brand into CGC, it seems to be an after thought now.  If you look at instagram posts, it is overwhelmingly posts with Pokemon.  Social media, youtube has a ton of SGC reveals and people talking them up.  Almost nothing with CGC (outside of pokemon).

I don't know an easy fix.  More specials and promotions is a great start.  SGC does well with their bowman/topps release ones.  Talking up the slab is great.  Maybe they have some automated processes that curtail fraud/trimming which would be a competitive advantage?  As far as grading, you are correct modern gem rate numbers are not good.  I disagree with the removal of 9.5.  I don't want to see a billion weak 10's like PSA slabs that look just like 9's since they are coin flip.  They should align closely to SGC I would think.  The other problem I have with their grading is that the vintage grading is closing to BVG (weak soft) than PSA/SGC.  Small sample size, but just about every card from the 70's on back that a cracked out in either direction SGC/CGC, the CGC gets a full grade bump.  That does not inspire confidence.  Grading softly on vintage and harshly on modern, the worst of both worlds. lol. 

I have been close to switching to CGC from SGC.  Keep waiting for the market to get better.  Events - no subs, label change, combine with CGC, gemrate data.  Seems like a big event keeps happening and the market needs to reset.

 

 

  

Scottish Punk: I am nodding my head to everything that you've said.  I refuse, however, to switch to SGC.  Their slab is simply sub-standard in terms of quality and security.  The black tie "look" is nice for some cards, however, the slab itself is not what I am looking for.  The resale value of SGC slabbed cards is weak, unless you're looking at some specific vintage cards.  PSA is a behemoth and basically does whatever they want to do.  Their use of pop control on key cards throughout sets, especially for cards in the 80's and 90's, is a scam.  See here for evidence: 

I would love for CGC to significantly up their game as it relates to their sports cards grading.  I've just not seen it happen and we're more than two years into this venture of grading sports cards with CGC.  The simple fact that someone from CGC can't even respond to what people have placed in this thread, outside of the prior milk toast response above, is evidence that CGC is not truly interested in feedback from their sports cards collector base.  I wish the moderator of this forum would send this thread to Andy Broome, who I do respect and get him in on the thread and then having him influence CGC cards to take some aggressive marketing action in relation to their sports cards grading.  I suspect that if CGC offered grading for $7 per slab and then marketed that price point throughout the year for vintage, modern, and ultra modern specials, including on new releases, they would gain a greater following.  I would time their grading "specials" to coincide with those of PSA and simply work to undercut PSA and SGC with lower grading fees. 

You're totally right about their vintage vs. modern vs. ultra modern grading.  They need to tighten up on vintage and relax a bit on modern and ultra modern.  A 30 percent gem rate, paired with the non-existent marketing and myriad changes to the slab and flip, has been and will continue to be a recipe for disaster.  I have a decent amount of vintage in CGC or CSG slabs.  They will all be cracked and submitted to PSA when they issue their next vintage grading special.  I simply have no market to work with as it relates to those vintage cards in CGC or CSG slabs and I refuse to take overly rigid and harsh grading on the modern and ultra modern side of things.  

CGC has one thing going for them: the industry standard quality of their slab.  That, along with grading specials that set a price point that significantly undercuts PSA's ridiculous prices (still imo) as well as SGC's low quality slab is the route I would strongly recommend CGC move in to keep their sports cards grading alive.  Otherwise, like I said earlier, their sports cards slabs will become entirely irrelevant in under 12 months time and Andy Broome will be out of a job.

[Scottish Punk]

I would be curious to see how you CGCs grade with PSA.  I have had success going from PSA to SGC with direct crosses.  The exception would be a grade down from really old PSA slabs.  I think everybody agrees that PSA tightened up the grading once they went to the lighthouse type slabs.  My small sample size bears that out.  As stated, I usually get a grade lower in vintage with SGC compared CGC.  Modern seems to be pretty close.  I just look at that has most cards can be graded a 9, 9.5, or 10 any given day.

I do agree, and my biggest beef with SGC, is their case is pretty flimsy from a security standpoint.  I have cracked one open with bare hands before.  I have see a water test online and SGC cases leak immediately.  The others all fared way better and protected the card.  I don't expect my cards to be submersed in water anytime, but if there is a disaster and all my vintage is ruined is not a comforting thought.  I just really hate PSA, their business practices and their really ugly cases, lol.

[TwoYewts]

@Leiataua Dr. Jon When you state "I suspect that if CGC offered grading for $7 per slab and then marketed that price point throughout the year for vintage, modern, and ultra modern specials, including on new releases, they would gain a greater following." 

I agree that would bring in a greater following; but, do you believe CSG/CGC would be able to handle the influx?  I only state that because with the current low numbers that are being churned I see many posts here on the chat threads of users saying "what's with the delays in grading".  Add on the backlog that I see when slot and set requests are made to when they are fulfilled, i'm not sure CSG/CGC's operations would be able to handle the influx that such an undercut would bring.  I mean take for example their latest registry awards "contest".  Stated on their announcement is " Ensure your CGC Cards Registry set is at its best by 10 a.m. EST on December 29, 2023" yet how are you suppose to accomplish this when they have such a backlog on slot, set and submission requests?  I'm only speaking from experience as I have submission orders that arrived at CSG in September, were graded and shipped back by November and have slot requests or set requests unfulfilled.

I do agree with you that building up special promotions throughout the year ala PSA style, offering specials on vintage or modern, etc, etc, will bring attention and more traffic to CSG/CGC grading...BUT, from what I see, I don't think they can currently handle it and that may be why they are not attempting your suggestions.

Edited January 9 by TwoYewts

[micky 8]

On 1/3/2024 at 5:31 PM, Leiataua Dr. Jon said:

Okay, thanks for the prompt reply.  The Gem Rate data is considered by most, if not all, within the hobby as industry-standard.  Your sports cards Gem Mint 10 rates are the lowest between the big four grading companies and almost a full 15 percent lower than PSA's.  That is KILLING you all in the market for those who desire Gem Mint 10 grades which, we all know, carry a premium in terms of resale value (not everyone is a collector).  How about you lighten up on the grades for Gem Mint 10's and start getting aligned with the big 3 in terms of Gem 10 rates?  And, 9.5's?  They are considered 9's by just about any person you ask - get rid of the 9.5 grade.  The 9.5 grade carries no more value than a CGC 9 and most people I know in the hobby would take a PSA 9 over a CGC 9.5.  It's meaningless and is one of the main reasons people do not grade with CGC.  It's either a Pristine 10, a Gem Mint 10 or a 9.  Get rid of 9.5's.

Also, I am well familiar with the new label - I like it but, that's been going on for months now.  I'd like to see you all do more promotions around grading fees that are lower for all types of hobbyists (collectors, dealers, flippers, etc.).  Most of the companies are running cool promotions like that and I do not see CGC doing ANY of that type of marketing around grading fees that are lowered via promotions that are hip and generate buzz.  Get creative and start trying new cool things!  Not everything is going to "hit" but at least you'll be doing something aka marketing to get the word out more about how great CGC is (which you are but nobody hears about it!).  CGC slabs the obviously the best in class slabs anywhere...start leveraging that by lowering the grading fees and undercut PSA.  PSA is still charging $20 for bulk which is ridiculous.  People continue to use PSA though because their slabs have the greatest liquidity and hold the greatest value (it's not because their actual slabs are better than yours!).

I'm going to be blunt: if CGC doesn't get it together and start pushing their services for sports cards grading -and hard- in 2024, there will not be any more sports cards grading at CGC, moving forward.  CGC CLEARLY has the BEST slab of all in the market.  Maybe it's time to really start marketing all of the great things about CGC graded sports cards and stop using TCG, comics, coins, and other items being graded as a crutch/excuse for why you're not moving the dial on the sports cards grading front.  

Y'all need to ramp up your marketing big time if you're going to be anywhere close to relevant in grading sports cards.  That is, unless your planning to drop the grading of sports cards and focus on TCG, comics, coins, etc. exclusively.  Don't become the next HGA...I've been behind you all since late 2021 with the sports cards grading but things need to get better and quick.  Otherwise, I don't know that I'll ever grade another card with CGC and that's just me being honest.  If you're a collector, it may be different but I both collect and do sports cards as a business and right now CGC graded sports cards need a "jump start" and soon.

I own three businesses that are successful, I have a doctorate, and know how to market.  How about I consult a little for you all and we get this sports cards grading thing turned around?

Blackstone, Fanatics, and CGC...let's go!

i dont think becoming more leniant is the way to go i like the gem rate CGC grades accurate and sticks to there scale thats why i stay with them but I do agree on specials and promotions for sports I see SGC making moves with Bowman chrome and others giving them huge jumps in submissions and making them more relevant in the hobby.. That comic book scam certainly didnt help the cgc brand!!  Your not wrong tho I was expecting better then 6K per month myself I think CGC has a decent reputation, great slabs and grading but something is missing still I realize its a slow process but never gonna compete with psa at this rate They need to offer promotions and get more aggressive. CGC putting everything into comics n TCG why not do the auto promotions with Sports! Why not get peyton manning, TB or Lebron to sign like how they did with the TCG cards with the special flip they're awesome.. Dont forget the sports guys!!! i been with csg from day 1 I dont want my slabs to be the comic grader who does sports sometimes..

[Shockmaster]

On 1/2/2024 at 2:56 PM, Leiataua Dr. Jon said:

Greetings,

According to the December Gem Rate data, CGC graded a mere 6,000 sports cards last month.  What in the world is going on CGC with your sports cards grading?  Three quarters of my slabs are in CGC holders!  I may have to start cracking them out and getting them into a competitor's slab if things don't improve soon with your numbers of sports cards graded.  

Why not try lowering your prices?

Why not try some innovative marketing strategies?

Why not try improving the liquidity of your sports cards slabs?

Something has got to change with the CGC sports cards grading because a few more months of this and the slabs are going to be worth the same as HGA, TAG, and Arena Club...

They must've had a nice influx of cards coming in because it's taking a good while for my bulk submission to get out of Received