Giant Size X-Men #1 Just Graded 9.9. It Begins..... 6 6

[Iconic1s]

On 6/11/2024 at 7:42 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

So when as a CGC Dealer do I get to see my uptick from what you said that I highlighted in bold above?

You are not a big enough deal… is your name Heritage or Comicconnect?  No?  Then don’t expect any favors.

[Stefan_W]

On 6/11/2024 at 9:04 PM, Kevin76 said:

I've been submitting books to CGC since 2000, I've gotten 4 9.9s in that time. 0 10s  

Harley Quinn 1 (2000)

Origins 1

Batman The Damed 1 - both covers  

People think 9.9s are going to become the new 9.8, and that 9.8s will tank in price are beyond delusional.  Most 9.9s that get graded are post 2000-now    

I've sent in many hundreds of comics, and probably well over a thousand now, and I continue to send orders in. I have never had a 9.9 or a 10.0. Out of all of those books there is only one (an ASM 238) that I would send back in to see if I could get a 9.9, but I would do it knowing the odds are against that happening. Sadly, I sold the book a few years ago so I will never have the chance to find out if I was right about it having 9.9 potential. 

Edited June 12 by Stefan_W

[Tec-Tac-Toe]

On 6/11/2024 at 9:04 PM, Kevin76 said:

I've been submitting books to CGC since 2000, I've gotten 4 9.9s in that time. 0 10s  

Harley Quinn 1 (2000)

Origins 1

Batman The Damed 1 - both covers  

People think 9.9s are going to become the new 9.8, and that 9.8s will tank in price are beyond delusional.  Most 9.9s that get graded are post 2000-now    

I also received the vaunted grades for Batman Damned 1 - both covers. However, CGC was giving out 9.9 and 10 on that book like it was candy on Halloween. Apart from that, I am batting zero on 9.9 and/or 10 despite submitting around five comic books that I know were 9.9; but what do I know that CGC does not, or is that the other way around? Well, better 9.8 than 9.6. 

[joeypost]

I have gotten back 2 10.0 books. Both were the faux leather covers. As far as 9.9 book it may be a few dozen but they were all modern books with the exception of 2 Infinity Gauntlet books. With the exception of a Hulk 400 none of the 10.0’s and 9.9’s were mine. 

[NewWorldOrder]

On 6/11/2024 at 7:38 PM, Iconic1s said:

You are not a big enough deal… is your name Heritage or Comicconnect?  No?  Then don’t expect any favors.

Truth is usually in the middle, so do I think CGC is giving out CGC 9.9's and 10.0's like candy? No

Are we going to be seeing a slight uptick in CGC 9.9's and 10.0's on post 1975 books? Yes

Are we going to be seeing a moderate uptick in CGC 9.9's and 10.0's on post Ultra modern books? Yes

The fact we as a hobby does not have a ASM #300 in a CGC 10.0 is joke.  There should be at least 10-25 of them on the census and at least a 100 in CGC 9.9.  Even more so on Wolverine Limited Series #, CGC 9.9 census should not be 41 it should be 410!

Again the slight grading goal post allowance curve should have been done 10-15 years ago. I am happy its finally here!

Edited June 12 by NewWorldOrder

[Iconic1s]

On 6/12/2024 at 11:41 AM, NewWorldOrder said:

The fact we as a hobby does not have a ASM #300 in a CGC 10.0 is joke. 

Statistically speaking you are probably correct (and I DO agree with you) but it’s hard to state that as a fact.  If (big IF) existing books were graded fairly and consistently it’s also possible that the 9.9 and 10’s just weren’t submitted yet.  If they start popping up now though I’d be skeptical in light of all this hoopla over 9.9 “pre-screen” possibilities, Matt Nelson’s comments on this subject, tons of Wolverine 9.9’s, as well as the highly publicized book that started this thread.

[NewWorldOrder]

On 6/12/2024 at 10:01 AM, Iconic1s said:

Statistically speaking you are probably correct (and I DO agree with you) but it’s hard to state that as a fact.  If (big IF) existing books were graded fairly and consistently it’s also possible that the 9.9 and 10’s just weren’t submitted yet.  If they start popping up now though I’d be skeptical in light of all this hoopla over 9.9 “pre-screen” possibilities, Matt Nelson’s comments on this subject, tons of Wolverine 9.9’s, as well as the highly publicized book that started this thread.

Correct just my opinion, and the chatter I have had with others.

CGC just like any company will change.  So for me if what I am seeing is correct this change is happening ever so slightly.

I have been double checking all my books that I am submitting since earlier this year for what I call "strong 9.85's" aka slam dunks with no defects what so ever on Bronze and copper, and if so I would hold them back.  So far zero.  And none of the ones I submitted came back 9.9 besides one and that book I didnt care to hold it back etc.  I know with most CGC 9.8's you can have a one or two very small spine ticks. (Yes I know there are examples showing many, but you get my overall point here )

What I think is happening is if you have a strong 9.4 you are getting the benefit of a CGC 9.6, and if you have a strong 9.6 you are getting the benefit of CGC 9.8 in some cases.  Not all the the time, but more than before.

The goal of CGC is make money as I am sure you and everyone is well aware.

Just watch from the 7:30 to 9:40 minute mark for @blazingbob thoughts.  Which I agree with and I was standing right next to him at the time of the interview.

Edited June 12 by NewWorldOrder

[Stefan_W]

On 6/12/2024 at 12:41 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

The fact we as a hobby does not have a ASM #300 in a CGC 10.0 is joke.  There should be at least 10-25 of them on the census and at least a 100 in CGC 9.9.  Even more so on Wolverine Limited Series #, CGC 9.9 census should not be 41 it should be 410!

Again the slight grading goal post allowance curve should have been done 10-15 years ago. I am happy its finally here!

Just to add to this point, when ASM 300 came out everyone knew it was a big deal. My local comic stores had signup sheets where people can claim a number of copies, and some people were buying 10 of them - one to read, and the rest directly into bags and boards. If there was ever a book from that era where you would expect a bunch of 9.9s and a few 10s it is that one. The caveat is that shipping processes were more, um, prehistoric I guess would be the right word, and some direct to storage books may have already had flaws that occurred in transit to local dealers. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 6/12/2024 at 11:14 AM, Stefan_W said:

Just to add to this point, when ASM 300 came out everyone knew it was a big deal.

[Chip Cataldo]

On 6/12/2024 at 3:45 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 6/12/2024 at 12:45 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

On 6/12/2024 at 11:14 AM, Stefan_W said:

Just to add to this point, when ASM 300 came out everyone knew it was a big deal.

 

 

 

[Stefan_W]

On 6/14/2024 at 1:50 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

 

 

 

Right, your numbers showing an increase of 25% for ASM 300 compared to the issues immediately before and after totally refutes my statement about how everyone knew ASM 300 was a big issue, which lead to my comic store to put out sign up sheets so people can pre-order copies. 

I would have gotten away with it too if it wasnt for you meddling kids. 

[Silver Surfer]

On 6/12/2024 at 10:25 AM, NewWorldOrder said:

Correct just my opinion, and the chatter I have had with others.

CGC just like any company will change.  So for me if what I am seeing is correct this change is happening ever so slightly.

I have been double checking all my books that I am submitting since earlier this year for what I call "strong 9.85's" aka slam dunks with no defects what so ever on Bronze and copper, and if so I would hold them back.  So far zero.  And none of the ones I submitted came back 9.9 besides one and that book I didnt care to hold it back etc.  I know with most CGC 9.8's you can have a one or two very small spine ticks. (Yes I know there are examples showing many, but you get my overall point here )

What I think is happening is if you have a strong 9.4 you are getting the benefit of a CGC 9.6, and if you have a strong 9.6 you are getting the benefit of CGC 9.8 in some cases.  Not all the the time, but more than before.

The goal of CGC is make money as I am sure you and everyone is well aware.

Just watch from the 7:30 to 9:40 minute mark for @blazingbob thoughts.  Which I agree with and I was standing right next to him at the time of the interview.

I don’t understand that one guys logic (apologies if he is a boardie). How is it okay to SS a book if Kirby’s wife signed Jack’s signature after he passed? As a personal piece of nostalgia, sure if that’s what you like, but as a SS book this should be a non starter. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 6/14/2024 at 11:44 AM, Stefan_W said:

Right, your numbers showing an increase of 25% for ASM 300 compared to the issues immediately before and after totally refutes my statement about how everyone knew ASM 300 was a big issue, which lead to my comic store to put out sign up sheets so people can pre-order copies. 

I would have gotten away with it too if it wasnt for you meddling kids. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

[Tec-Tac-Toe]

On 6/12/2024 at 2:14 PM, Stefan_W said:

Just to add to this point, when ASM 300 came out everyone knew it was a big deal. My local comic stores had signup sheets where people can claim a number of copies, and some people were buying 10 of them - one to read, and the rest directly into bags and boards. If there was ever a book from that era where you would expect a bunch of 9.9s and a few 10s it is that one. The caveat is that shipping processes were more, um, prehistoric I guess would be the right word, and some direct to storage books may have already had flaws that occurred in transit to local dealers. 

I remember that the owner of Sunshine Comics in Miami, FL, unfortunately long gone after it became Sunshine Games, told customers, including me, "Amazing Spider-Man 300 is out!" or something along that line. I purchased a great many copies at SC, A&M Comics, also in Miami, at newsstands in Miami, including Adolph's in Coral Gables (Miami, for all intents and purposes). My copies are all sitting in acid free storage in a climate controlled environment in another state.

Of course, just because one LCS owner told me such does not mean notification was widespread as I do not recall the owner of A&M telling, at least, me about 300.

I'll end by saying that I used to purchase "tons" of copies of many of the "crop" that was published. Much of it is presently still "crop." I wish I could fertilize my garden with them.

Edit: I looked up Adolph's because that store was great. Its name was Adolph's Readers World, 2301 Ponce de Leon Blvd., Coral Gables, FL. I probably purchased thousands of books there, including Savage Sword, which I love. Wonderful memories of that store.

Edited June 15 by Tec-Tac-Toe
Adolph's

[Stefan_W]

On 6/15/2024 at 8:44 AM, Tec-Tac-Toe said:

 

Of course, just because one LCS owner told me such does not mean notification was widespread as I do not recall the owner of A&M telling, at least, me about 300.

I'll end by saying that I used to purchase "tons" of copies of many of the "crop" that was published. Much of it is presently still "crop." I wish I could fertilize my garden with them.

 

I remember three times when LCSs in my area put out sign up sheets for customers to claim a number of anticipated copies in advance. The first was Dazzler 1, which was sure to be a smash with the new ground-breaking distribution model and the disco-based lead character that was immediately popular after her debut in X-Men. I signed up for 5 copies of that one. The second was Frank Miller's Ronin 1, which was sure to be a smash because Miller was hot and everything he touched turned to gold. I signed up for 10 copies of that one. The third time was for ASM 300, which was sure to be a smash because of a new cool villain coupled with it being a milestone issue (number 300). By this point I had started university, but still hung out in comic shops from time to time. I remember lots of conversations in those stores about ASM 300 as it was about to release, and lots of people excitedly signing up for whatever number of copies, but after being somewhat burned the other times I signed up to buy lots of copies of hot new comics I passed on it.   

Whenever I go through discussions about spec comics I always think of this. The form of spec comics has changed, but the idea of people buying up copies of comics they figured would be hot one day has been around for as long as comics have been collectible. And I am really, really bad at spec. 

Edit: Just to bring this back around to the topic and my original point, when customers were buying up multiple copies of books and read one while putting the rest directly away, I would expect to find more 9.9s and 10.s assuming the distribution went smoothly and books were not damaged in transit to local stores. 

Edited June 15 by Stefan_W

[DC#]

On 6/15/2024 at 8:10 AM, Stefan_W said:

I remember three times when LCSs in my area put out sign up sheets for customers to claim a number of anticipated copies in advance. The first was Dazzler 1, which was sure to be a smash with the new ground-breaking distribution model and the disco-based lead character that was immediately popular after her debut in X-Men. I signed up for 5 copies of that one. The second was Frank Miller's Ronin 1, which was sure to be a smash because Miller was hot and everything he touched turned to gold. I signed up for 10 copies of that one. The third time was for ASM 300, which was sure to be a smash because of a new cool villain coupled with it being a milestone issue (number 300). By this point I had started university, but still hung out in comic shops from time to time. I remember lots of conversations in those stores about ASM 300 as it was about to release, and lots of people excitedly signing up for whatever number of copies, but after being somewhat burned the other times I signed up to buy lots of copies of hot new comics I passed on it.   

Whenever I go through discussions about spec comics I always think of this. The form of spec comics has changed, but the idea of people buying up copies of comics they figured would be hot one day has been around for as long as comics have been collectible. And I am really, really bad at spec. 

Edit: Just to bring this back around to the topic and my original point, when customers were buying up multiple copies of books and read one while putting the rest directly away, I would expect to find more 9.9s and 10.s assuming the distribution went smoothly and books were not damaged in transit to local stores. 

Miracleman #1 from Alan Moore.   I think I bought about 30 copies (didn’t realize it until 25 years later that about half of them had a printers crease across the front)  That was the time right after TMNT that every new independent #1 was going to be the next giant breakout.    

Another book with no 9.9 or 10 on census 

 

[wombat]

On 6/15/2024 at 11:10 AM, Stefan_W said:

I remember three times when LCSs in my area put out sign up sheets for customers to claim a number of anticipated copies in advance. The first was Dazzler 1, which was sure to be a smash with the new ground-breaking distribution model and the disco-based lead character that was immediately popular after her debut in X-Men. I signed up for 5 copies of that one. The second was Frank Miller's Ronin 1, which was sure to be a smash because Miller was hot and everything he touched turned to gold. I signed up for 10 copies of that one. The third time was for ASM 300, which was sure to be a smash because of a new cool villain coupled with it being a milestone issue (number 300). By this point I had started university, but still hung out in comic shops from time to time. I remember lots of conversations in those stores about ASM 300 as it was about to release, and lots of people excitedly signing up for whatever number of copies, but after being somewhat burned the other times I signed up to buy lots of copies of hot new comics I passed on it.   

Whenever I go through discussions about spec comics I always think of this. The form of spec comics has changed, but the idea of people buying up copies of comics they figured would be hot one day has been around for as long as comics have been collectible. And I am really, really bad at spec. 

Edit: Just to bring this back around to the topic and my original point, when customers were buying up multiple copies of books and read one while putting the rest directly away, I would expect to find more 9.9s and 10.s assuming the distribution went smoothly and books were not damaged in transit to local stores. 

Its a good point. Its like someone making a thousand predictions and one of them turning out to be right and saying that guy knows what he is talking about. 

[Tec-Tac-Toe]

On 6/15/2024 at 11:10 AM, Stefan_W said:

I remember three times when LCSs in my area put out sign up sheets for customers to claim a number of anticipated copies in advance. The first was Dazzler 1, which was sure to be a smash with the new ground-breaking distribution model and the disco-based lead character that was immediately popular after her debut in X-Men. I signed up for 5 copies of that one. The second was Frank Miller's Ronin 1, which was sure to be a smash because Miller was hot and everything he touched turned to gold. I signed up for 10 copies of that one. The third time was for ASM 300, which was sure to be a smash because of a new cool villain coupled with it being a milestone issue (number 300). By this point I had started university, but still hung out in comic shops from time to time. I remember lots of conversations in those stores about ASM 300 as it was about to release, and lots of people excitedly signing up for whatever number of copies, but after being somewhat burned the other times I signed up to buy lots of copies of hot new comics I passed on it.   

Whenever I go through discussions about spec comics I always think of this. The form of spec comics has changed, but the idea of people buying up copies of comics they figured would be hot one day has been around for as long as comics have been collectible. And I am really, really bad at spec. 

Edit: Just to bring this back around to the topic and my original point, when customers were buying up multiple copies of books and read one while putting the rest directly away, I would expect to find more 9.9s and 10.s assuming the distribution went smoothly and books were not damaged in transit to local stores. 

I agree, there should be more 9.9s and 10s of ASM 300, etc., all things being equal.

As for the is "25s", e.g., ASM 200, 225, 250, 275, 300, 325, ... I, at least, would always purchase tons of them if only because they were 25s. A part of my reason for doing so was that "other collectors also love 25s". Now I'm on that point. I still collect 25s, to some extent, likely wasting my "comic book money."

As for first issues, I have more than I care to admit; we all very likely do. Thus far, very few have reached the high peaks, but many have at least made the climb (Excuse my climbing analogy as I've lately again started reading a lot about scaling Mount Everest, not that I ever will. )

As concerns speculating on comic books, based on my experience, comic book collectors, hoarders, etc., have been speculating on issues at least since the late Silver Age at least in my small part of northern New Jersey (Union City, West New York, Weehawken, Hoboken, North Bergen, Guttenberg, Jersey City, etc., into Bergen County) . Whether that was widespread, I have no idea.