Michael Browning Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 (edited) On 5/18/2024 at 12:19 PM, RICKYBOBBY said: Yup. Not sure if it sold for a profit. That's all I'm saying. No one can convince me that anyone who paid those HUGE prices to buy into Tradd Moore art will ever be able to make a profit off of it (yes, as I have stated time and time again on here and elsewhere, I look at every single comic art purchase as an investment and I hope I live long enough to sell it all in a few years) and I see a lot of it come up for sale and not sell. I think a lot of people do get FOMO when it comes to buying his art and a lot of it was probably sold at the height of COVID money, so I would have to believe there are a lot of people sitting back thinking to themselves NOW "Why did I spend that much and how will I ever tell my wife our retirement has been spent on tulips?" I know that Silver Surfer collectors pay big bucks for good Surfer art. I know all too well that that happens all the time. (it really happened a lot when COVID cash was flowing.) I don't understand it, but they do. I know that a lot of people rushed in and bought Silver Surfer Black art for some mighty high prices and I think it will be a long time before they see any ROI. Maybe there are Silver Surfer fans who will buy it, but I cannot believe that it is surpassing Jack Kirby or John Buscema Silver Surfer in resale prices. And I will say it again, I think his art is amazing and beautiful and psychedelic and every piece of Silver Surfer Black art is almost a masterpiece and I believe Felix is one of the best art reps at getting the most for his client. Edited May 18 by Michael Browning Hockeyflow33, Dr. Balls and RICKYBOBBY 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Unstoppablejayd Posted May 18 Popular Post Share Posted May 18 I love a spirited debate!!! but let’s get to the good stuff??? Let’s see the art you bought in CAL?? my first purchase arrived today ultimate Spiderman bagley dps with much better characters then Spiderman thanks Tony! delekkerste, cloud cloddie, Twanj and 3 others 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Browning Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 On 5/18/2024 at 1:01 PM, Unstoppablejayd said: I love a spirited debate!!! but let’s get to the good stuff??? Let’s see the art you bought in CAL?? my first purchase arrived today ultimate Spiderman bagley dps with much better characters then Spiderman thanks Tony! I love that and it is a great example of the amazing way CA Live works. Fantastic pickup! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexus Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 (edited) On 5/18/2024 at 6:20 AM, Michael Browning said: I cannot find a single example of Tradd Moore art reselling for the huge amounts people have said they resell for. None. I saw a lot of Tradd Moore art UNsold at CA Live and I've seen a lot sit unsold online. HA has sold nine pieces of Moore art with the Vote Loki #4 cover selling the highest at $5,040. That VOTE LOKI cover originally sold in 2000 for $1000. The other pieces were all resold on HA for upwards of 10X the original selling price. On 5/18/2024 at 6:20 AM, Michael Browning said: That's lower than the prices for individual pages from his Dr. Strange miniseries that are still available on your site. Not sure where you're looking, but there's nothing from DOCTOR STRANGE: FALL SUNRISE available on the site. Both issues sold out during their respective drops: https://www.felixcomicart.com/ArtistGalleryTitleDetails.asp?ArtistId=587&Mag=DOCTOR+STRANGE%3A+FALL+SUNRISE On 5/18/2024 at 6:20 AM, Michael Browning said: Nowhere near the $30,000 and $40,000 people SAY that Tradd Moore art resells for. The only Tradd art that has been sold for those prices are from SILVER SURFER: BLACK. Not everything Tradd has sold at that level. Anyone who believes that just doesn't know what they're talking about. On 5/18/2024 at 6:20 AM, Michael Browning said: I've also seen too much of it sit unsold or be offered for sale on social media by people who are needing quick cash and most of those pages don't even get much interest, which tells me that not every buyer of his art reaps a huge ROI when they resell. No one should be buying ANY comic art if their chief concern is a "huge ROI". But people who have bought Tradd art from me have done pretty well overall. There are also those who want to believe all Tradd art is as sought after as SSB, and again, that's just not the case. The art that doesn't get sold on social media was in all likelihood priced too aggressively. Which is something that's not only limited to Tradd art. Each and every CAF Live proves that. Edited May 18 by Nexus Shaun C89, Michael Browning and Twanj 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexus Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 On 5/18/2024 at 8:18 AM, Michael Browning said: Nah, every time I post something like my above comments, the Legion of Tradd followers always come out to tell me how they have all sold their pieces for high five figures to low six figures and they're all collectors I have never heard of in my time in the hobby. They're usually all newbie collectors who just got into buying art because they were so moved by Silver Surfer Black that they mortgaged their homes to buy just one, single piece and then resold it to buy a mansion in the Hollywood hills and they're living a life of rich retirement. I'm exaggerating quite a bit, but that's generally how this goes for me. Yes, you're exaggerating quite a bit. I know some of the sellers and also some of the buyers who have paid up for SSB on the secondary market. Some have shared publicly. One who has is longtime collector and fellow boardie Hari Naidu. He picked up a DPS from SSB last year. He can share exactly what he paid, but it was in the neighborhood of what these pages have been reselling for. He posted it to social media. It's not just newbies or whatever it is you believe. Michael Browning and Twanj 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexus Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 On 5/18/2024 at 8:46 AM, RICKYBOBBY said: Here is one example. Not on comicarttrackker any more but comicconnect sold this privately. 66k I believe I know the buyer of that SSB DPS. He's the owner of the DD #167 cover I mentioned in another thread, which he acquired 40 years ago. Under-the-radar black hole collector. Thanks to CAF's Market Data I see that it was originally sold in 2019 for $3000. On 5/18/2024 at 8:46 AM, RICKYBOBBY said: In addition to this, not sure if anyone noticed but a Dr Strange page from issue one that was marked at 17.5 k was sold by Sunday at CAF live. Not sure which page this was now, but likely originally sold in $8K range last year. Twanj and Michael Browning 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Browning Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 On 5/18/2024 at 1:57 PM, Nexus said: Yes, you're exaggerating quite a bit. I know some of the sellers and also some of the buyers who have paid up for SSB on the secondary market. Some have shared publicly. One who has is longtime collector and fellow boardie Hari Naidu. He picked up a DPS from SSB last year. He can share exactly what he paid, but it was in the neighborhood of what these pages have been reselling for. He posted it to social media. It's not just newbies or whatever it is you believe. I honestly appreciate the replies! The ones who have reached out to me with angry messages have been mostly newbies. (Hari has never sent me a mean message because he's one of the best and most respected guys in the community and has been all the time I've been collecting art.) mtlevy1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Browning Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 On 5/18/2024 at 1:51 PM, Nexus said: Not sure where you're looking, but there's nothing from DOCTOR STRANGE: FALL SUNRISE available on the site. Both issues sold out during their respective drops: https://www.felixcomicart.com/ArtistGalleryTitleDetails.asp?ArtistId=587&Mag=DOCTOR+STRANGE%3A+FALL+SUNRISE Looks like there are pages for sale when I look at CAF. Twanj 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevn Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 Michael, you have to look at Felix's actual website (the link he posted, at felixcomicart.com), not his CAF page, to see what's available from his artists. I for one am glad he keeps the pages and their sales prices available on CAF, since it makes it easy to get an idea of what kinds of prices to expect when there is an art drop pending. If you do try to buy from his CAF site, and click on any of those DS:FS pages that you showed above, you'll see that none of them are actually available. I can see how it would be confusing if you didn't pay attention to the felixcomicart.com website and just looked at CAF. Twanj and Michael Browning 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Browning Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 On 5/18/2024 at 2:45 PM, Kevn said: Michael, you have to look at Felix's actual website (the link he posted, at felixcomicart.com), not his CAF page, to see what's available from his artists. I for one am glad he keeps the pages and their sales prices available on CAF, since it makes it easy to get an idea of what kinds of prices to expect when there is an art drop pending. If you do try to buy from his CAF site, and click on any of those DS:FS pages that you showed above, you'll see that none of them are actually available. I can see how it would be confusing if you didn't pay attention to the felixcomicart.com website and just looked at CAF. I appreciate your post. I have never been to his site, nor do I ever plan to go there unless he starts repping old Marvel artists. I clicked on CAF and saw those were still listed as being available. That's all I needed to know. Like all good dealers should, he, too, should take down his listings if they are sold. Felix needs to be more like Anthony, whose CAF listings go away as soon as they are sold. Makes it less confusing and saves us a trip to his site -- and the disappointment we might feel when we get there. Kevn and Twanj 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dem1138 Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 On 5/18/2024 at 11:02 AM, Nexus said: Thanks to CAF's Market Data I see that it was originally sold in 2019 for $3000. Not sure which page this was now, but likely originally sold in $8K range last year. FWIW the 17.5 Dr. Strange page was offered around by the seller privately on Sunday for 12.5k so that's likely what it sold for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC25427N Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 (edited) On 5/18/2024 at 3:28 PM, Michael Browning said: I appreciate your post. I have never been to his site, nor do I ever plan to go there unless he starts repping old Marvel artists. I clicked on CAF and saw those were still listed as being available. That's all I needed to know. Like all good dealers should, he, too, should take down his listings if they are sold. Felix needs to be more like Anthony, whose CAF listings go away as soon as they are sold. Makes it less confusing and saves us a trip to his site -- and the disappointment we might feel when we get there. Felix doesn't control (directly at least) what shows up on CAF Dealer Search for his website. For every dealer site integrated with CAF theres a system Bill has in place that tracks those sites and handles creating/updating those listings on CAF Classifieds/Dealer results as they change on the dealer site. The only reason you still see those pages in CAF dealer search is because they're marked as "On Hold" on Felix's site and CAF only filters out "Sold" status for search on dealer sites. These dealers integrated with CAF don't manually make and update those dealer listings on CAF, your issue is with Bill. Ask him to filter out "On Hold" too Also just to preempt this, yes Felix could change those to Sold on his site and they would get removed from CAF too, but I think its more prudent to look at the larger problem. I can't tell you how many times I found something I like on Burkey's site through CAF just to see it end up being on hold, and seeing its been "On Hold" for years. Felix at least changes his "On Hold" listings to sold after a while, I'm assuming its because the buyers still might be making payments on those Edited May 18 by JC25427N being more specific to avoid being nitpicked Twanj, Sean I, Kevn and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC25427N Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 Thank you in advance by the way for appreciating my post Michael Browning 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Browning Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 On 5/18/2024 at 6:03 PM, JC25427N said: Felix doesn't control (directly at least) what shows up on CAF Dealer Search for his website. For every dealer site integrated with CAF theres a system Bill has in place that tracks those sites and handles creating/updating those listings on CAF Classifieds/Dealer results as they change on the dealer site. The only reason you still see those pages in CAF dealer search is because they're marked as "On Hold" on Felix's site and CAF only filters out "Sold" status for search on dealer sites. These dealers integrated with CAF don't manually make and update those dealer listings on CAF, your issue is with Bill. Ask him to filter out "On Hold" too Also just to preempt this, yes Felix could change those to Sold on his site and they would get removed from CAF too, but I think its more prudent to look at the larger problem. I can't tell you how many times I found something I like on Burkey's site through CAF just to see it end up being on hold, and seeing its been "On Hold" for years. Felix at least changes his "On Hold" listings to sold after a while, I'm assuming its because the buyers still might be making payments on those That does seem to be a fixable problem for sure, probably some sort of coding could change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unstoppablejayd Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 On 5/18/2024 at 6:26 PM, Michael Browning said: That does seem to be a fixable problem for sure, probably some sort of coding could change it. People like being able to see the prices in caf for the quick sell outs Michael Browning, Twanj and Catwoman_Fan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Hill Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 With the Comic Connect listing, I thought the owner of Metropolis/Comic Connect had one of those Moore pages from the SSB run. Could it be the same one in question? It could just be old age setting in and me misremembering, but I thought I saw something about that a while back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevn Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 On 5/19/2024 at 12:03 AM, JC25427N said: Felix doesn't control (directly at least) what shows up on CAF Dealer Search for his website. For every dealer site integrated with CAF theres a system Bill has in place that tracks those sites and handles creating/updating those listings on CAF Classifieds/Dealer results as they change on the dealer site. The only reason you still see those pages in CAF dealer search is because they're marked as "On Hold" on Felix's site and CAF only filters out "Sold" status for search on dealer sites. These dealers integrated with CAF don't manually make and update those dealer listings on CAF, your issue is with Bill. Ask him to filter out "On Hold" too Also just to preempt this, yes Felix could change those to Sold on his site and they would get removed from CAF too, but I think its more prudent to look at the larger problem. I can't tell you how many times I found something I like on Burkey's site through CAF just to see it end up being on hold, and seeing its been "On Hold" for years. Felix at least changes his "On Hold" listings to sold after a while, I'm assuming its because the buyers still might be making payments on those I appreciate the clarification of how these prices still show up on dealer's CAF sites, even when the correct status ('on hold', with no price visible) is present on the dealer's actual website. As I mentioned before, I think this is more of a feature than a bug. Yes, for some people there will be a moment of disappointment when they see art on CAF they would buy at the listed price, and when they click through to make a purchase are directed to the dealer's webpage to find that there's a deal already pending. But I think that's a small price to pay to get a clear idea of what things sold for, especially when some art drops sell out literally within minutes of becoming available and prices disappear on the dealer site. Perhaps this info is preserved in the CAF market data, which for me would be a good incentive to upgrade to a premium account. Twanj 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloud cloddie Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 I’d much rather see art that’s sold with prices still up, than art for sale with no prices. Twanj and Kevn 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlo M Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 I would like to come back and give my (relatively uninformed opinion) on the topic of Moore's art FMV. Uninformed because I am not a player in his art, I have read SS Black and found the art stunning and new but the story incomprehensible, and have not read his Dr. Strange. So I guess I am quite impartial. I think there is no argument that "current FMV" has to be the latest trades happening. It does not really matter whether at auction or on a dealers' website (let's leave aside dealers' discounts and auction dynamics; and also let's leave aside hearsay on private deals). Somebody willingly paid that price so that has to be FMV. Then a different question is whether that FMV will hold or increase in the future. That we will be able to see when the next evidence appears. Based on the recent Dr Strange drops, it looks like the trend is positive. As to the cover of SS Black mentioned somewhere here, well if that is a cover you have to divide it by at least 6x or 7x to derive the equivalent panel page value. So everyone can make their own determinations. Very interesting debate, anyway. pestonaccio, Twanj and Michael Browning 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Grant Turner Posted May 19 Popular Post Share Posted May 19 Here’s my CAL pickup (arrived yesterday) Nice little NOVA 20 page by Carmine Infantino and Dave Hunt! Benedict Judas Hel, The Voord, John E. and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
