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Christine Farrell - DC Collector RIP
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Started by DanCooper,

136 posts in this topic

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sfcityduck

sfcityduck

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Posted (edited)
On 9/16/2024 at 6:31 PM, vheflin said:

Eddie Church :whatthe:

DET10.thumb.jpg.507615ed7def922a70a361f7d4d2f408.jpg

It will be interesting to see the other siblings. Here's one that's sure to excite:

New Adventure Comics #27 Edgar Church (Mile High) Pedigree (DC, 1938) CGC NM+ 9.6 White pages. This stunning Mile High copy is the highest-graded on the CGC Census and is a rare find in any grade, as the Photo-Journal Guide to Comic Books rates it a "7" ("scarce") in its Scarcity Index. Behind the deep sea Creig Flessel cover you'll find a full-page ad for Superman's big debut in Action Comics #1. Overstreet 2024 NM- 9.2 value = $21,000. CGC census 9/24: 1 in 9.6, none higher.
From the Christine Farrell Complete DC Collection.

Especially when you consider its lesser graded siblings:

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lf

Edited by sfcityduck
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Darwination

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On 9/17/2024 at 4:38 PM, sfcityduck said:

Anyone going after a complete DC collection is going to have to buy restored comics unless they are truly extremely wealthy and extremely motivated. It hasn't happened yet to my understanding.

But, the fact that after Christine's death her books are having the paper "scraped" to get a "better" grade is a tragedy. This is why I strongly believe that a restored comic should get a grade commiserate with what it would get without the restoration in question. Why should a "scraped" book get a better grade than a book with color touch?  The damage is worse on the scraped book! And its just a different form of restoration which eliminates material, not a return to the pre-restoration state of the book.  

This marketplace has got to mature on these issues. I think it will. And some day in the future we will probably see these "scraped" books decline in value and eventually those scraped spots will be "restored" or "conserved" with very thin reversible paper veneers to restore their value.  That's how absurd this is.

My question here is - is Heritage counseling the seller to scrape?

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adamstrange

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On 9/17/2024 at 8:15 PM, Darwination said:

My question here is - is Heritage counseling the seller to scrape?

The standard consignment agreement probably contains a clause regarding "grading optimization services".

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rob_react

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On 9/17/2024 at 5:38 PM, sfcityduck said:

Anyone going after a complete DC collection is going to have to buy restored comics unless they are truly extremely wealthy and extremely motivated. It hasn't happened yet to my understanding.

But, the fact that after Christine's death her books are having the paper "scraped" to get a "better" grade is a tragedy. This is why I strongly believe that a restored comic should get a grade commiserate with what it would get without the restoration in question. Why should a "scraped" book get a better grade than a book with color touch?  The damage is worse on the scraped book! And its just a different form of restoration which eliminates material, not a return to the pre-restoration state of the book.  

This marketplace has got to mature on these issues. I think it will. And some day in the future we will probably see these "scraped" books decline in value and eventually those scraped spots will be "restored" or "conserved" with very thin reversible paper veneers to restore their value.  That's how absurd this is. 

There are young men and women old enough to drink that were born after I started hoping for a more nuanced approach to comic restoration and the CGC market. 

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VintageComics

VintageComics

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On 9/17/2024 at 5:38 PM, sfcityduck said:

Anyone going after a complete DC collection is going to have to buy restored comics unless they are truly extremely wealthy and extremely motivated. It hasn't happened yet to my understanding.

But, the fact that after Christine's death her books are having the paper "scraped" to get a "better" grade is a tragedy. This is why I strongly believe that a restored comic should get a grade commiserate with what it would get without the restoration in question. Why should a "scraped" book get a better grade than a book with color touch?  The damage is worse on the scraped book! And its just a different form of restoration which eliminates material, not a return to the pre-restoration state of the book.  

This marketplace has got to mature on these issues. I think it will. And some day in the future we will probably see these "scraped" books decline in value and eventually those scraped spots will be "restored" or "conserved" with very thin reversible paper veneers to restore their value.  That's how absurd this is.

For books to stop getting scraped, buyers need to start valuing restored books at their pre-restoration values and ponying up those bids. 

And that burden is going to fall on CGC to tell the buyer what they're buying in the holder, pre restoration. 

A "pre restored" estimation would be the most ideal from the position of the buyer, but not sure how that works with CGC's "guarantee" 

The other options if for buyers to do their research and hope to guess a minimum "pre restored" grade and bid accordingly but that's a lot more work and a lot more guessing.

That's the only way I see this happening. 

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sfcityduck

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On 9/17/2024 at 8:23 PM, VintageComics said:

 

A "pre restored" estimation would be the most ideal from the position of the buyer, but not sure how that works with CGC's "guarantee" 

 

What guarantee?  They only guarantee that the book is not a counterfeit. They don't guarantee the grade.

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VintageComics

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On 9/18/2024 at 12:21 AM, sfcityduck said:

What guarantee?  They only guarantee that the book is not a counterfeit. They don't guarantee the grade.

I just mean I don't know if there are any legal hurdles. 

It's hard enough to estimate a grade when you can see the entire book. It's harder to estimate a grade you can't see due to being hidden by restoration.

But ideally, even a minimum grade estimate would be far better than not having any idea what lies under the resto. 

For example, you have a Restored 8.0 that could be either anything from a 2.5 to a 4.5 unrestored. 

Even if the lowest possible grade is the Unrestored estimate at 3.0, it's still far better than the book selling like it's a 1.0 or 2.0 because people are afraid of the Restored label.

I realize I'm just throwing around imaginary numbers but I'm trying to get people to visualize the possibilities. 

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VintageComics

VintageComics

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On 5/16/2024 at 8:56 AM, sfcityduck said:

https://m.sevendaysvt.com/arts-culture/origin-story-how-burlingtons-earth-prime-comics-helped-unite-vermonts-comics-lovers-35006000

This article was long but made me feel warm and fuzzy all over. I felt like a teenager the entire time I was reading it. What a great read. 

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sfcityduck

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Posted (edited)

Worth noting that CGC can easily spot CT. Just as the scrapers can. And takes no imagination to envision what the book would look like “scraped”. So what is the impediment to giving a book with CT the grade it would get if “scraped”?

Far better to recognize a book with a bit of CT is in a higher grade than a book restored with color touch “scraping” and removal of paper.

Calling it unrestored is just fiction.

Edited by sfcityduck
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DanCooper

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Looks like the first wave of Chris's collection (pre-the main one being discussed here with the Mile Highs) will be in the weekly Heritage auction - September 29th - October 1st:

https://comics.ha.com/c/search/results.zx?term=%22christine+farrell%22&si=2&dept=1938&live_state=5318~5319~5320~5323~5321~5324&auction_name=122440&sb=4&mode=live&page=50~1&layout=list

A lot of interesting stuff - hard to find titles (like Big Towns) lower grade keys like Brave & Bold 1, Jimmy Olsen 1, etc. A restored Showcase 4, which indicates there are dupes since an unrestored Showcase 4 will be in the main auction later in October.

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VintageComics

VintageComics

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On 9/18/2024 at 9:32 AM, sfcityduck said:

Worth noting that CGC can easily spot CT. Just as the scrapers can. And takes no imagination to envision what the book would look like “scraped”. So what is the impediment to giving a book with CT the grade it would get if “scraped”?

Far better to recognize a book with a bit of CT is in a higher grade than a book restored with color touch “scraping” and removal of paper.

Eh...I'm not so sure how accurate you can be envisioning something like this. 

You can be in a ballpark but there are alway surprises in the unknown. 

Just spitballin, but grading like anything can offer surprises, twists and turns and can sometimes be hard to envision the final product until the process is completed. 

For example, the scrapes under the CT may be deeper in some cases and cause more scraping.

Or you could have books where more than one person has worked on a book and you have several layers of resto to remove with the first layer hiding what may be under the second layer. 

So you remove color touch and find a tear seal as well, lower the book from just a color breaking scratch to a tear. 

It would similar to the tape issue we discussed 15 years ago, where CGC changed their grading standards. They decided to grade the book as if the tape wasn't there and the defect the tape was covering was exposed, but sometimes you don't actually know what's under the tape. 

I'm not trying to make it sound confusing, but I could envision scenarios where it's not a straightforward guess so there would be that to consider. 

In the grading process there are always unforeseen headscratchers that pop up. 

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Crowzilla

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Posted (edited)
On 9/17/2024 at 5:48 PM, sfcityduck said:

It will be interesting to see the other siblings. Here's one that's sure to excite:

New Adventure Comics #27 Edgar Church (Mile High) Pedigree (DC, 1938) CGC NM+ 9.6 White pages. This stunning Mile High copy is the highest-graded on the CGC Census and is a rare find in any grade, as the Photo-Journal Guide to Comic Books rates it a "7" ("scarce") in its Scarcity Index. Behind the deep sea Creig Flessel cover you'll find a full-page ad for Superman's big debut in Action Comics #1. Overstreet 2024 NM- 9.2 value = $21,000. CGC census 9/24: 1 in 9.6, none higher.
From the Christine Farrell Complete DC Collection.

Especially when you consider its lesser graded siblings:

 

These are amazing, and you left out the Church copy of New Adventure #17 (previous highest grade copy was a 5.0, now a 9.4) which is also one of the ones Peter mentioned as "no one has seen a Church copy" (same as the #s 25 and 28 you posted). The original listing from Chuck didn't even have #17 on the list. The surfacing of these (and the #23) is just astounding.

It was just a few months ago that Peter shared his joy in being able to acquire the 8.0 copy of NA27, and now this one surfaces. :jawdrop:

Edited by Crowzilla
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Bronty

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On 9/18/2024 at 1:30 PM, Silver Surfer said:

Any guesses on the final hammer for this one? The bidding will be fierce. 

Could it claw towards six figures?   Here's a 6.0 from covid that went for about 17k.

 

ServiceCGC
 
GradeFN 6.0
Auction Ended
Jan 16, 2022

 

Auction Archives
Sold For:  $16,800.00 
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