Is Print Dead? 1 1

[Robot Man]

I have worked in the Graphic Design and Printing field my whole life. For years I have seen the decline of the need of printed material. Glad I made it out alive. So many great print shops in my area have closed.

Book stores new or used are closing in droves. Hard to believe comic stores aren’t next.

Costco has now made the decision to stop selling books. My local grocery store has eliminated magazines. We only have one Barnes & Noble store still open.

Music and record stores for the most part even with the resurgence of vinyl are things of the past. Are paper mediums next?

The internet has killed all interest in holding a book, magazine or newspaper in your hands. Am I just the last dinosaur left?

Very sad…

[ADAMANTIUM]

Costco will still sell books in fall and winter, due to the holidays  

[CitrusZ28]

I have worked in printing for the last 40 years. I have seen many changes and refinements throughout my career and it seems that each wave of modernization has resulted in shops closing, consolidating and merging. I am now working for a company that mainly does charity mailing (junk mail), there is still a market for that, but probably not much longer. The end is near, the newer generations have grown up without daily newspapers, books or magazines etc... Their reality is digital and that its the way the informations age is heading. Reminds me of this Star Trek episode-

 

[Stefan_W]

About a year and a half ago I bought a comic collection from someone who was converting to digital for everything, and he did not want hard copies around anymore. I dont think we will see a complete shift in the new comic market right away, but I do expect the slow slide that direction to continue. 

[The humble Watcher lurking]

On 6/13/2024 at 11:12 AM, Robot Man said:

I have worked in the Graphic Design and Printing field my whole life. For years I have seen the decline of the need of printed material. Glad I made it out alive. So many great print shops in my area have closed.

Book stores new or used are closing in droves. Hard to believe comic stores aren’t next.

Costco has now made the decision to stop selling books. My local grocery store has eliminated magazines. We only have one Barnes & Noble store still open.

Music and record stores for the most part even with the resurgence of vinyl are things of the past. Are paper mediums next?

The internet has killed all interest in holding a book, magazine or newspaper in your hands. Am I just the last dinosaur left?

Very sad…

Some lady's husband passed in my condo complex a few days ago. She put out a box of over 1000 books he had collected over his lifetime to take for free. The subject matter was they were westerns. She told us we could take any we wanted or heck even take them all. I looked at them and a lot of good reading would have been in them, but thought I have to lug them up plus find storage. I politely declined. I suggested she take them to a Goodwill and donate them. 

[Cman429]

People have been forecasting this for over a decade now. Anything topical like Sports Illustrated or whatever magazine is doomed because we get news immediately now but entertainment is different. A lot of people find reading comics or books on iPads or phones unwieldy, unpleasant, or just not practical. I personally find reading on a tablet an awful experience. I think physical comics will last well into the future. 

[bc]

On 6/13/2024 at 12:47 PM, Cman429 said:

People have been forecasting this for over a decade now. Anything topical like Sports Illustrated or whatever magazine is doomed because we get news immediately now but entertainment is different. A lot of people find reading comics or books on iPads or phones unwieldy, unpleasant, or just not practical. I personally find reading on a tablet an awful experience. I think physical comics will last well into the future. 

They may, but what percent of the entire printing industry are comic book related? I'd venture to guess a low single digit percentage.

-bc

[wiparker824]

Hard to compare comic books to any other printed material really. Main reason is what you identified “interest in holding a book, magazine or newspaper in your hands” doesn’t quite apply to many comic books purchased. What percent of books purchased do you think are put in a bag and board or slab and never actually thumbed thru? Whereas if you’re buying a novel, the odds are pretty high you’re going to read it and not just have it as part of a “collection” or “display piece” like with comics. So you have those buyers AND people who simply prefer to read on paper vs. digital that are going to keep the market there. 

[JollyComics]

On 6/13/2024 at 10:12 AM, Robot Man said:

I have worked in the Graphic Design and Printing field my whole life. For years I have seen the decline of the need of printed material. Glad I made it out alive. So many great print shops in my area have closed.

Book stores new or used are closing in droves. Hard to believe comic stores aren’t next.

Costco has now made the decision to stop selling books. My local grocery store has eliminated magazines. We only have one Barnes & Noble store still open.

Music and record stores for the most part even with the resurgence of vinyl are things of the past. Are paper mediums next?

The internet has killed all interest in holding a book, magazine or newspaper in your hands. Am I just the last dinosaur left?

Very sad…

Trees are very happy. 

FYI, I gave up my career in Web/Graphic Design and Printing in 2008.  I would not afford $300 to $500 per training course (my former agencies told me that I needed to update my resume with those graphic software).  I estimated $2500 to take those courses to make my resume looked solid plus I had to update my website of my working portfolio.  I already have two kids (both were 1 and 3 years old) and didn't have the health insurance.  I ended up working for UPS to get the benefits plus teaching Sign Language courses.  I was told that I should take UX course but it is now $1700 course.  The prices have gone up.  Most jobs are temporary or on-contract.  I didn't take that risk so I went to the different paths.

My son just graduated from the high school and my daughter is now in her junior year.  I already was accepted into the graduate school for MA degree to continue my teaching but I can pursue the full-time position.  I know the printing thing is faded and all printing things turn to Interent but I see more trees and more greens.

Edited June 13 by JollyComics

[1950's war comics]

i have around 500 books on military history acquired over the last 50 years and i loved reading them .. but now i just go to the internet to read like Wikipedia which has everything i ever had and more

i just give the books away some day , that is if someone even wants them

[Darwination]

Yep, huge cultural shifts in media and the way we read have been underway for decades now.  The newspaper, magazine, and book industries have all been decimated in the number of jobs available, and the latest trend is even AI writers.  It's been horrible for the quality of journalism but likely very good for the environment.  Trees are a renewable resource, but all the energy put into the printing and distribution process is not so much.  Graphic design isn't dead, but the demand isn't the same, and, strike me down for saying this, but web design just doesn't strike me like design for print.

I read both in paper and in digital and find benefits for both.  Paper means more focus - there's not some incoming email or other window to nab your attention away from what you're reading.   Digital means I can take an entire library with me anywhere I go, can instantly look up reference materials when questions arise, and I can read in the dark without disturbing the mrs.  Still, I do a majority of my reading in paper - it's just more enjoyable and easy on the eyes, and when I'm reading digital I prefer a nice scan of the original book to epubs, pdfs, or digital editions that look like modern reprints instead of the original printing.

Regarding comics, digital has put a big dent in the number of LCS already, and that trend will continue.  Most comic shops have long since diversified into plastic figures, playing cards, and other pop culture memorabilia.  If they haven't, they better be pretty damn good at the other thing.   I love being able to pull up (almost) any comic in seconds, and I imagine most people that like the blue boxes appreciate actually having a way to read some of the rarities they've locked away.  Fwiw, the comics industry and the floppy tradition is pretty strong.  Compared to other periodicals, comics are doing very well staying "in print."

Edited June 13 by Darwination

[sfcityduck]

On 6/13/2024 at 8:12 AM, Robot Man said:

 

Book stores new or used are closing in droves.

 

A lot of that, however, is not competition from digital media but competition from internet sellers of traditional books. Amazon underprices just about every brick and mortar. Other more niche internet purveyors underprice Amazon. That's a tough environment for brick and mortar. But it doesn't necessarily signal the end of books. Sites like Zoop (check out this offering, https://zoop.gg/c/skymastersofthespaceforce) and Kickstarter are publishing a lot of comic related books using crowdfunding and subsequent selling in brick and mortar outlets. My own feeling is that stores that sell only new material are vulnerable (except in airports) and stores that sell a healthy mix of old material and new material will likely survive.

Will the printers survive with less demand? That's a key question and I have no idea on the answer. Printers are still printing a lot of stuff, so I tend to think they'll thin out but not totally disappear. A lot of printing is done overseas as well.

 

[Robot Man]

On 6/13/2024 at 10:06 AM, JollyComics said:

Trees are very happy. 

FYI, I gave up my career in Web/Graphic Design and Printing in 2008.  I would not afford $300 to $500 per training course (my former agencies told me that I needed to update my resume with those graphic software).  I estimated $2500 to take those courses to make my resume looked solid plus I had to update my website of my working portfolio.  I already have two kids (both were 1 and 3 years old) and didn't have the health insurance.  I ended up working for UPS to get the benefits plus teaching Sign Language courses.  I was told that I should take UX course but it is now $1700 course.  The prices have gone up.  Most jobs are temporary or on-contract.  I didn't take that risk so I went to the different paths.

My son just graduated from the high school and my daughter is now in her junior year.  I already was accepted into the graduate school for MA degree to continue my teaching but I can pursue the full-time position.  I know the printing thing is faded and all printing things turn to Interent but I see more trees and more greens.

The myth of trees disappearing to make paper is very misleading. Paper companies are well aware of this. Trees are renewable and the large paper companies are planting more trees than they cut down. There is also the recycling of paper products. Trees are not disappearing from earth.

I started out as a traditional Graphic Designer. Doing everything by hand. I still remember rapidograph pens and the smell of rubber cement. Then one day Apple Computers came out. The industry changed. I knew if I wanted to continue in my current career I would have to quickly change with the times. I went to community college in the evenings and took advantage of classes my employer would pay for. As much as I miss the traditional, I changed with the times and never looked back. There are advantages and disadvantages.

Although I am now officially retired now I still do work for ironicaly Apple Computers as well as other work I choose to take on.

Printing ink on paper has in some ways, changed radically and at the same time very little.

Been a great ride and I have no regrets.

[Darwination]

On 6/13/2024 at 1:04 PM, sfcityduck said:

A lot of that, however, is not competition from digital media but competition from internet sellers of traditional books. Amazon underprices just about every brick and mortar. Other more niche internet purveyors underprice Amazon. That's a tough environment for brick and mortar. But it doesn't necessarily signal the end of books. Sites like Zoop (check out this offering, https://zoop.gg/c/skymastersofthespaceforce) and Kickstarter are publishing a lot of comic related books using crowdfunding and subsequent selling in brick and mortar outlets. My own feeling is that stores that sell only new material are vulnerable (except in airports) and stores that sell a healthy mix of old material and new material will likely survive.

Will the printers survive with less demand? That's a key question and I have no idea on the answer. Printers are still printing a lot of stuff, so I tend to think they'll thin out but not totally disappear. A lot of printing is done overseas as well.

 

Yep, see the above posters mention of Goodwill.  It's the online booksellers like goodwill that can ship a used copy of 95% of modern books to your house for five bucks that are the biggest threat to the traditional bookseller.  It's the fact that the books are given away or bought en masse that makes this possible.  Boutique booksellers and local established booksellers can compete to some extent (and I spend some of my book dollars here).  On the bottom side of the market there are the giant second-hand stores (not corporate) that manage to sell books for a dollar or two in person that seem to do pretty well.

Edited June 13 by Darwination

[jimjum12]

On 6/13/2024 at 12:47 PM, Cman429 said:

People have been forecasting this for over a decade now. Anything topical like Sports Illustrated or whatever magazine is doomed because we get news immediately now but entertainment is different. A lot of people find reading comics or books on iPads or phones unwieldy, unpleasant, or just not practical. I personally find reading on a tablet an awful experience. I think physical comics will last well into the future. 

Much of the decline of brick and Morter can also be attributed to internet and mail accessibility as well. If one can store the inventory in a garage, and do mail order, then an ungodly source of overhead is removed from the equation. Commercial real estate rental rates can be absolutely ludicrous. Real time example, a good pal owned one of the more successful LCS storefronts in Hampton Roads. During Covid, when he wasn't allowed to fully open, his landlord wanted a full year at a higher rate than the last lease. My pal, having done well, retired early and let the outlet go. An extra 1500+ per month can pay a lot of bills or buy a lot of frills. Years ago, another friend of mine retired from Civil Service printing and opened his own shop in his garage. Still open 30 years later. I myself read 3 novels a month on the average, and it is a very rich and fulfilling aspect of my life. This is just around here YMMV. GOD BLESS ...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

I only go to B&N at the Holidays, but almost always find something unexpected. That's more a factor of aggressive price gouging at every front that reduces my disposable income in a near infuriating way. The stroke didn't help, to be honest. 

Second and Charles can, however, be absolutely Heavenly.

Edited June 13 by jimjum12

[Qalyar]

Print has been declared dead from pretty much the moment that personal computers saw widespread use. Heck, Egon Spengler declared exactly that in the 1984 Ghostbusters film; the franchise often depicts Ray as the owner of an occult bookstore, but onsceen, we see him consulting a digital copy of Tobin's Spirit Guide.

Comic books are to some extent resilient to the shift to all-digital text consumption because there's a case to be made that comic book reading has an ergodic component. That is, that the act and process of reading a real comic book is part of the product itself. Ergodic literature digitizes poorly. I'm not sure if one of my favorite book books, House of Leaves, has a Kindle edition, but I'm absolutely certain that one would suck. Reading the book is part of the book.

Obviously, all of that doesn't mean that brick and mortar booksellers are necessarily in a great place. Much of that has to do with the way that Amazon rose to dominance in the industry, and how they stay there. Bog standard corporate shenanigans (aka the "merge, mismanage, and self-destruct cycle") also claimed the life of several of the small-to-medium physical retailers over the years (all the way up to and including Borders). Meanwhile, local comic book shops do face competition from the large online comic store / shippers (although not to the same extent that Amazon threatens traditional book stores), and deal with the same uncertain demand curves that plague most small businesses. As already noted here, most of them have diversified into collectible card games, pop culture memorabilia, or other niche products that don't digitize well (or at all), and that will help ensure that they survive. 

We're a long way from 1984, and print's still not dead. There may very well come a time when that's not the case, but it's not in our immediate future. 

[Mr Sneeze]

 

There is a third section I don’t have a picture handy of but I am down to under a 1000 now. Used to be over 2000. We love our books, what else can be said. My parents surrounded us in books so I guess it stuck. Had a plumber remark they are good insulation.

[jimjum12]

On 6/13/2024 at 3:14 PM, Qalyar said:

Comic books are to some extent resilient to the shift to all-digital text consumption because there's a case to be made that comic book reading has an ergodic component.

MODS NOTIFIED. 

I think. GOD BLESS ...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[JollyComics]

On 6/13/2024 at 1:06 PM, Robot Man said:

The myth of trees disappearing to make paper is very misleading. Paper companies are well aware of this. Trees are renewable and the large paper companies are planting more trees than they cut down. There is also the recycling of paper products. Trees are not disappearing from earth.

I started out as a traditional Graphic Designer. Doing everything by hand. I still remember rapidograph pens and the smell of rubber cement. Then one day Apple Computers came out. The industry changed. I knew if I wanted to continue in my current career I would have to quickly change with the times. I went to community college in the evenings and took advantage of classes my employer would pay for. As much as I miss the traditional, I changed with the times and never looked back. There are advantages and disadvantages.

Although I am now officially retired now I still do work for ironicaly Apple Computers as well as other work I choose to take on.

Printing ink on paper has in some ways, changed radically and at the same time very little.

Been a great ride and I have no regrets.

Yes, I was on the edge of the traditional and technology art until 2008 that changed everything.  You were in glory days of the traditional art world.  I worked for 15 years and had seen many changes.

I was joking about the tree things.  My uncle was President of Marketing for many different paper mills mostly in Wisconsin.  The companies own lands that grow trees for the paper and pulps like other states.  The third world is still threatening many important forest globally. 

Edited June 13 by JollyComics

[SilverShadows]

There is something very rich about holding a book in your hand compared to reading a screen. The small businesses are all closing, we have less choices. It's all coming, a change I don't particularly look forward to. But I'll hold onto the things I love.