Are recession fears inflated? Time for folks to double-down in GOLD ...aka GA comics! 2 2

[Robot Man]

On 8/11/2024 at 8:38 PM, Readcomix said:

Nah, she’s just today’s Madonna. No question pop is very big and transient today, Bob, but there are people under 70 producing great new rock n roll. Go see The Struts. Or Greta Van Fleet. 

Indeed. Both great bands. I also discovered Samantha Fish a while back. Rocking and ripping!

I was lucky enough to be around for the first Marvel comics and the birth of the “English Invasion”. Have been reading comics and following all kinds of music ever since. Sadly, both mediums have slipped considerably but I’m still seeking quality…

 

[Robot Man]

On 8/11/2024 at 8:40 PM, Telegan said:

I was just about to say the same thing.  They'll be on YouTube (or whatever it'll be called by then) and reminiscing about back in the good ol' days when they would listen to Drake, Taylor Swift, and ....... *gasp*, Creed.

Although, I do disagree with you in a previous post about jazz not being rebellious... jazz, jazz clubs, etc. for a while was considered rebellious and demonic music by lovers of classical and, in general, "a whole lot of people" back in the early 20th century.  There were several towns trying to ban jazz music, jazz halls, and any establishment that played the music.  It went through its own Wertham phase when people said it was going to corrupt the youth.  Maybe you mean rebellious referring to lyrics, in which case, nevermind, because I think jazz was considered evil because it was "wild" for the time and well, let's be real, originated and innovated by African Americans.  It was considered rebellious for the music alone - nevermind any lyrics.  There was a PBS documentary about the very topic a while back that I found interesting.

Indeed. Jazz and blues were considered the “devil’s fruit” back in the day. Without them, there would have been no radical rock n roll and beyond to pizz off parents for generations. 

[Neo "The One"]

On 8/12/2024 at 11:38 AM, vheflin said:

Are sound levels still the same at these classic band concerts?

I wouldn't want to be deaf for a week, fun when you're 25 but not now.

I guess you could wear earplugs.

You must wear earplugs to concerts.  I've been deaf for a week since I was 18!

[atomised]

On 8/10/2024 at 10:16 PM, thehumantorch said:

I actually love that some old rock stars are still performing.  I suspect most of them are doing it because they love playing and performing and love making music.

True, although I thought Bob Weir was a bit off vocally when I saw Dead Forever at the Sphere recently in Vegas - and I am a big fan.  I think it might be time to sunset that "supergroup"

[sfcityduck]

On 8/12/2024 at 8:05 AM, tth2 said:

Yes, but they were a small minority.  Look at the pics of the early SDCC's, it's mostly young guys.  When collecting first became mainstream in the 1970s, the demographics of the hobby definitely skewed young because there weren't a whole lot of people who'd been collecting long enough to have gray hair.

That's just not true.  

Here's one of many comic collectors who was 29 or older in1965 (Roy Thomas was 25 and Denny O'Neil was 26) and would have been 34 in 1970:

Jerry Bails was 32 in 1965. Don Thompson and Dick Lupoff were 30 in 1965. Biljo White was 35. These guys were all founding fathers of modern fandom in 1959-1962. They would have 35+ to 40 in 1970.

Malcolm Willits was 31 in 1965. He'd already achieve two of his major claims to fame: As a huge fan of the "Good Duck Artist" in his collecting, he tracked down that artist's identity as Carl Barks in ... 1957! He shared the info and fans started reaching out to Barks in ... 1960! In 1964, Willits founded Collector's Bookstore in Hollywood (with Leonard Brown). Willits would have been 36 in 1970.

But, before Willits founded his store, there was Cherokee Books founded by Burt Blum and frequented by super-collector and Chevron employee Rick Durell (shown here in 1965 with Action 1, D27, Whiz 2, Batman 1, Superman 1, etc. all of which I've heard Durrell owned multiple copies of). Rick supposedly had the bright idea of hiring Blum to locate GA comics for him in the early 60s - propelling Cherokee Books into comic dealing:

Durell is probably the oldest guy I've mentioned as I believe he was born in the 1920s. Another shot of him and his infamous cat from the early 1970s looking middle aged and grey haired (Rick and the cat):

Numerous others I could mention. Russ Cochran was 28 in 1965 and 33 in 1970. Obviously, he was another driving force in comic collecting.

None of the guys mentioned above were going to be singing "Hope I die before I get old" in 1970. They were already "untrustworthy" because they were ALL over 30 and some over 40 (out of tact I'm leaving Maggie Thompson and her age out of this conversation but she was clearly a founder of fandom also).

SDCC was far far far from the beginning of comic fandom. 

You want to see discussions of comic collecting far earlier than you might think?  Read this article from the Evening Starr of July 19, 1946:

 

 

 

Edited August 12 by sfcityduck

[tth2]

On 8/13/2024 at 2:56 AM, atomised said:

I thought Bob Weir was a bit off vocally when I saw Dead Forever at the Sphere recently in Vegas

How could you tell?  

[tth2]

On 8/13/2024 at 4:24 AM, sfcityduck said:

On 8/12/2024 at 11:05 PM, tth2 said:

Yes, but they were a small minority.  Look at the pics of the early SDCC's, it's mostly young guys.  When collecting first became mainstream in the 1970s, the demographics of the hobby definitely skewed young because there weren't a whole lot of people who'd been collecting long enough to have gray hair.

That's just not true.  

It's absolutely true.  Even with your superior knowledge of the history of comic collecting, you've only managed to come up with 10 names of older collectors, which is probably more than many others would be able to come up with.  I would even throw in Don Rosa's name to help boost your numbers.  

Now for every one of them, there were what, 50-100+ younger collectors?  Note that I did not say there were NO older collectors.  I said "small minority" and "weren't a whole lot".  1-2% certainly counts as a "small minority" in my book. 

[atomised]

On 8/12/2024 at 8:18 PM, tth2 said:

How could you tell?  

They opened the set with Iko Iko, and he stumbled on the lyrics several times.  But what was more noticeable was how his voice sounded feint or strained on most the tracks he handled main vocals on.  He's 76 and has been at it for decades, so I'm not surprised.  When he shared the vocals with Mayer on Uncle John's Band it was the highlight of the night, but he just couldn't carry a track solo.   That said, the bar for the Dead is just as high as can be.  I suppose ever since Jerry passed, none of it really mattered anyway.

[sfcityduck]

On 8/12/2024 at 8:27 PM, tth2 said:

It's absolutely true.  Even with your superior knowledge of the history of comic collecting, you've only managed to come up with 10 names of older collectors, which is probably more than many others would be able to come up with.  I would even throw in Don Rosa's name to help boost your numbers.  

Now for every one of them, there were what, 50-100+ younger collectors?  Note that I did not say there were NO older collectors.  I said "small minority" and "weren't a whole lot".  1-2% certainly counts as a "small minority" in my book. 

As I said above, there are numerous others who helped create modern comic collecting in the 1960s. Do I really need to list them all? There are too many for me to list but Jerry Bails did put out a directory of comic collectors in 1964. And the major players’ names are on articles and ads in the many fanzines of the early 1960s.

The 1960s had already created a healthy culture of fanzines, adzines, newszines, dealers, collector associations, fan gatherings, Comicons, fan voted anwards like the Alley Awards, APAs like CAPA-Alpha, original art collectors, etc., largely under the guiding hands of “old guys.” The 1960s also had created a mentality that comics were not just for kids with Marvel going after college students and the rise of comixs.

The notion modern comic collecting was not really a thing until the 1970s is a pretty radical opinion. The innovations of the 1970s were largely about the comic business (distribution) not comic collecting. Don’t get me wrong, I suspect for many of us here the 1970s were a time for comic collecting we remember fondly (after all prices were still low), myself included.

Edited August 13 by sfcityduck

[Mmehdy]

On 8/12/2024 at 2:45 AM, jimbo_7071 said:

I'm sure that's very reassuring to some people, but it simply isn't the reality with comic books. I've been collecting GA since 1985 (so about a year after I started collecting new comic books). You did not see gray-haired guys at the comic shows unless they were there with their grandchildren. Even for the GA material, the buyers were kids and teens and guys in their 20s, 30s, and early 40s. (A few of the dealers were older guys.)

How old was @Mmehdy when he bought his Action 1? So much for the myth that GA collectors have always been old.

18....first GA book Superman #76 for 5 bucks..and remember comics were 12cents and that was 42-1 ratio...that was around the time of the comic collectors club...which was 1965ish and that would put me at 10!!!!!

[sfcityduck]

On 8/13/2024 at 9:40 AM, Mmehdy said:

18....first GA book Superman #76 for 5 bucks..and remember comics were 12cents and that was 42-1 ratio...that was around the time of the comic collectors club...which was 1965ish and that would put me at 10!!!!!

In 1965, the Academy of Comic-Book Fans and Collectors organized by Jerry Bails had 2,000+ members spread around the country. I'm assuming that's what Mitch is referring to joining at age 10! Pretty good membership for a pre-internet and pre-comic store club that was only a year or so old but Mitch was probably one of the youngest if not the youngest members. Folks may not realize how hard it was to even discover the existence of fanzines back then. Comic collecting was very much an activity that people did in isolation or with friends in their own small locality until they learned to network. But learn to network many did. Mitch, I believe, had the benefit of parents who collected stamps and probably helped him realize the value and existence of the resources out there. Most of the greatest collections are probably examples of successful networking of one sort or another. Far different from today when many of the top books are available at auction and networking, while still helpful, is not necessary. Comic collecting has evolved away from an activity where networking may have been an essential tool to one where cash is king. If you have the money, you will get what you want with very few exceptions.

I think Mitch's story is impressive because it's largely unique that someone his age (18) had the willingness and means to set the record he did ($1,800). He got the money selling comics. There's no doubt in my mind that he was the youngest guy to ever set a comic book purchase record. As a comparison, Theo Holstein, who sold Mitch the book (and may have bought it back for $2,500?), was about ten years older than Mitch. 

 

 

[jimbo_7071]

On 8/12/2024 at 4:24 PM, sfcityduck said:

[Ric] Durell is probably the oldest guy I've mentioned as I believe he was born in the 1920s. Another shot of him and his infamous cat from the early 1970s looking middle aged and grey haired (Rick and the cat).

Another question to ponder is, "How many guys born in the teens (1910—1919) ever got into collecting comic books?" My guess would be very, very few because those guys did not grow up buying and reading comic books, which is where much of the passion for the hobby comes from for a majority of collectors.

I see a close parallel between that generation and the Zoomers. Reading saddle-stitched comic books was not popular while that generation was growing up. Comic books were still around, but that generation was into other things, especially gaming and social media. Even if some of them have the "collecting gene," there are many other things that they could collect. Why would they collect comic books? How many people my age collect big-band-era 78s?

[sfcityduck]

On 8/13/2024 at 10:45 AM, jimbo_7071 said:

Another question to ponder is, "How many guys born in the teens (1910—1919) ever got into collecting comic books?" My guess would be very, very few because those guys did not grow up buying and reading comic books, which is where much of the passion for the hobby comes from for a majority of collectors.

 

Agree that the folks who founded comic fandom were reading comics in the late 1930s to 1950s and many were born in the 1930s. What connected Jerry Bails and Roy Thomas was a love for All Star Comics and the JSA. 

BUT there are notable collectors who were adults in the 1930s. Edgar Church was born in 1888. But he was never, to my knowledge, part of comic fandom. 

Also, a lot of soldiers got into comics during WWII. Those guys would have been born in the teens and twenties. That was one reason why the adult oriented titles took off after the war. So, no, comic reading wasn't just for kids nor was collecting.

Edited August 13 by sfcityduck

[buttock]

Without trying to beat this into the ground, my first SDCC was 1993 and the demographics look pretty much the same at any show now.  

[jimjum12]

On 8/13/2024 at 3:08 PM, buttock said:

Without trying to beat this into the ground, my first SDCC was 1993 and the demographics look pretty much the same at any show now.  

Except, perhaps, for the nearly naked cosplayers  GOD BLESS ...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

 

Edited August 13 by jimjum12

[buttock]

On 8/13/2024 at 1:48 PM, jimjum12 said:

Except, perhaps, for the nearly naked cosplayers  GOD BLESS ...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

 

Pretty much every comiccon in history.  There's old pictures of Wendy Pini back in the 70s in a bikini.  Not that I'm complaining, but the BMI of the cosplayers has definitely changed.  

[sfcityduck]

On 8/13/2024 at 1:28 PM, buttock said:

Not that I'm complaining, but the BMI of the cosplayers has definitely changed.  

Is that a good thing?

[jimjum12]

On 8/13/2024 at 4:28 PM, buttock said:

Pretty much every comiccon in history.  There's old pictures of Wendy Pini back in the 70s in a bikini.  Not that I'm complaining, but the BMI of the cosplayers has definitely changed.  

Touche' , in a good way. GOD BLESS ...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[buttock]

On 8/13/2024 at 2:36 PM, sfcityduck said:

Is that a good thing?

There was a vampirella at a show a couple of years ago that couldn't hold a candle to Wendy.