I think Comic book shows are broken 2 2

[blazingbob]

The topic of "convention pricing,  website pricing,  store pricing" etc has been the topic of discussion for YEARS.  

Please note that the pricing of a book that you see in front of you is a snapshot in time.  Unless the date of pricing is noted you have NO idea when then book was priced,  or graded for that matter (CGC doesn't time stamp their books either).

I could have priced the book in 2011 or based on a New indicator in the last 90 days.  My pool in the pricing of books using historical data is much bigger then some think.  

The True test of a seller is when there is no historical data.  

Sometimes it takes the simple task of asking the seller without being confrontational how did you come up with the pricing.    

But hey I get it,  we are BOTH mind readers since while you are pouring over your phone,  overstreet price guide or simply thinking "how did he come up with this price" I am doing the same of the person in front of me.  

The continuing battle of "Us" versus "Them" continues to this day.  When you are on the dealer side you become the "Us",  when you are the buyer you become the "Them".

Unless a price sticker becomes a LED like your local gas station this topic will continue.

Edited August 29 by blazingbob

[kimik]

On 8/29/2024 at 5:24 AM, joeypost said:

I travel from FLA to Calgary to buy from most of the Canadian dealers. The last three conventions I attended locally I spent less than $1,000.00 each time because the prices were not based on reality. 

That's because @greggy scoops you on everything............

[Artboy99]

On 8/29/2024 at 7:21 AM, Stefan_W said:

I agree with your approach in general, but I stopped bringing flashy books for my wall like Hulk 181s. I found they dont sell at the shows I do so they just take up wall space for nothing. The last show I brought zero slabs (those sell better online than in person for me) and loaded up my wall with $100-$700 books (in Canadian dollars) and they were selling well all day long.

The local crowd typically likes flash but open their wallets for deals. So I put keys and minor keys into bins up front and mark those a few bucks below value. Based on what I have seen, sellers who use the classic old school approach of marking books up like crazy and letting people "bargain" them down to full market value no longer do as well unless they have silver age keys that everyone still wants. 

I also stopped bringing the slabs I am under water on. As you say there is no point as they will not sell and you risk theft or damage. (I have had guys knock over my wall!)

On another note: why do show attendees ask to see/hold books they absolutely will not buy? As an example: I saw a video on YouTube from a user named "Stickygoose" where he asked to see a Mask #1 priced at $14,000. Just baffles me that people will do this.

Edited August 29 by Artboy99

[Stefan_W]

On 8/29/2024 at 11:17 AM, Artboy99 said:

I also stopped bringing the slabs I am under water on. As you say there is no point as they will not sell and you risk theft or damage. (I have had guts knock over my wall!)

On another note: why do show attendees ask to see/hold books they absolutely will not buy? I saw a video on YouTube from a user named "Stickygoose" where he asked to see a Mask #1 priced at $20,000. Just baffles me that people will do this.

The first show I ever did I brought a Hulk 181 that was 7.0 to draw attention to my booth, and I priced it at the market value at the time. I had people asking to hold it and a couple took selfies with it, but it sat and did not sell. Ditto when I brought an ASM 1, DD 1, etc. After a while I figured out that not only were those books not selling, but the people who were asking to see those books were not hanging out and buying other stuff. 

As time went on I switched to smaller and more affordable slabs, and devoted half my wall space to slabbed minor keys in the $100-$300 which is typically one of the sweet spots for pricing to sell. After not selling a single slab in three consecutive shows I finally accepted that it was the wrong venue for slabs. The last show I devoted my entire wall to nice raws and my take home from that show was about 50% higher than usual. Lesson learned from my perspective. 

[Artboy99]

On 8/29/2024 at 9:22 AM, Stefan_W said:

The first show I ever did I brought a Hulk 181 that was 7.0 to draw attention to my booth, and I priced it at the market value at the time. I had people asking to hold it and a couple took selfies with it, but it sat and did not sell. Ditto when I brought an ASM 1, DD 1, etc. After a while I figured out that not only were those books not selling, but the people who were asking to see those books were not hanging out and buying other stuff. 

As time went on I switched to smaller and more affordable slabs, and devoted half my wall space to slabbed minor keys in the $100-$300 which is typically one of the sweet spots for pricing to sell. After not selling a single slab in three consecutive shows I finally accepted that it was the wrong venue for slabs. The last show I devoted my entire wall to nice raws and my take home from that show was about 50% higher than usual. Lesson learned from my perspective. 

I agree.

[blazingbob]

On 8/29/2024 at 11:17 AM, Artboy99 said:

I also stopped bringing the slabs I am under water on. As you say there is no point as they will not sell and you risk theft or damage. (I have had guys knock over my wall!)

On another note: why do show attendees ask to see/hold books they absolutely will not buy? As an example: I saw a video on YouTube from a user named "Stickygoose" where he asked to see a Mask #1 priced at $20,000. Just baffles me that people will do this.

Show attendees ask to see/hold books that they will not buy because "If I win the lottery I'm going to buy this".  This quote is as old as "I used to own one just like this"

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 8/29/2024 at 10:24 AM, Artboy99 said:

On 8/29/2024 at 10:22 AM, Stefan_W said:

The first show I ever did I brought a Hulk 181 that was 7.0 to draw attention to my booth, and I priced it at the market value at the time. I had people asking to hold it and a couple took selfies with it, but it sat and did not sell. Ditto when I brought an ASM 1, DD 1, etc. After a while I figured out that not only were those books not selling, but the people who were asking to see those books were not hanging out and buying other stuff. 

As time went on I switched to smaller and more affordable slabs, and devoted half my wall space to slabbed minor keys in the $100-$300 which is typically one of the sweet spots for pricing to sell. After not selling a single slab in three consecutive shows I finally accepted that it was the wrong venue for slabs. The last show I devoted my entire wall to nice raws and my take home from that show was about 50% higher than usual. Lesson learned from my perspective. 

Expand  

I agree.

The futility of the thread except for my own therapy flabbergasts me, as I would love $1-200 slabs at my con, which I feel they "have" but are all super moderns as opposed to copper age runs. To me this all sounds like nitpicking or personal wants and or needs, that in itself I usually find rarities or special to my heart books at a con. From a buyer perspective, the con is usually (as opposed to throughout the year) a time that I've "saved money and plan to spend regardless" or somewhat. That doesn't then make an excuse to just overspend, and I don't know why that is ever a "thought" other than those rumored "shopping sprees" that people go on and I've never had it like that  

I love the rarities and ask to hold (I'm talking like star wars clone wars #1 newsstand or something thereabouts, like last year a gold Venom LP) because you're not going to find it very often elsewhere. Value or Price doesn't do that to me, is what I mean. I reckon it to finding a golden age you haven't seen before or something.

Here is my con thread from this year, with 1st posts nesting the past years con threads going back to 2018 or 2019. The dealers are respectable, and allow me to take pics. I am not even saying they're "overpriced" NOT SAYING THAT AT ALL, as most only markup 20% over with debate room and or trade opportunities. That said, the "books that I look for are usually end up being, the raw ones" when I want a slab, and since we're home to the competition here in Dallas, it is a tossup to what slab will represent what company. 

In short just to say, every con has its attractions and just like for dealers not all things "sell", imo for buyers not all things are attractions, which is what I guess this thread is about  

 

Edited August 29 by ADAMANTIUM

[ADAMANTIUM]

That and it changes every year and some dealers attend more than one con per year, and I don't  so I don't know what their selling habits are, so this thread is kind of futile...

for me

but wanted to post the con thread nesting posts link, just in case it helped anyone else come to their own conclusions, and or expound. 

I still get excited about it all, as it takes planning and that is fun when it is comics, comics, comics!

On 8/29/2024 at 10:36 AM, ADAMANTIUM said:

The futility of the thread except for my own therapy flabbergasts me, as I would love $1-200 slabs at my con, which I feel they "have" but are all super moderns as opposed to copper age runs. To me this all sounds like nitpicking or personal wants and or needs, that in itself I usually find rarities or special to my heart books at a con. From a buyer perspective, the con is usually (as opposed to throughout the year) a time that I've "saved money and plan to spend regardless" or somewhat. That doesn't then make an excuse to just overspend, and I don't know why that is ever a "thought" other than those rumored "shopping sprees" that people go on and I've never had it like that  

I love the rarities and ask to hold (I'm talking like star wars clone wars #1 newsstand or something thereabouts, like last year a gold Venom LP) because you're not going to find it very often elsewhere. Value or Price doesn't do that to me, is what I mean. I reckon it to finding a golden age you haven't seen before or something.

Here is my con thread from this year, with 1st posts nesting the past years con threads going back to 2018 or 2019. The dealers are respectable, and allow me to take pics. I am not even saying they're "overpriced" NOT SAYING THAT AT ALL, as most only markup 20% over with debate room and or trade opportunities. That said, the "books that I look for are usually the raw ones, and since we're home to the competition here in Dallas, it is a tossup to what slab will represent what company. 

In short just to say, every con has its attractions and just like for dealers not all things "sell", imo for buyers not all things are attractions, which is what I guess this thread is about  

 

 

[ADAMANTIUM]

ah dang it got ahead of myself

I was trying to say the raws I find I want, I'd pay the $1-200 if they were instead slabbed and by cgc....  

That was my point, and nitpicking on my part haha 

Case and point this year I bought 2 randoms from the ASM McFarlane run prcied at $95 that they took $75 a piece for, it sounds random and I'm probably making more sense to myself than others, but that simple transaction is getting fewer and farther between and I can't speak for others peoples needs.

I've always thought if your going to have common books raw have some commons slabbed, and then be more picky as a dealer with higher priced stuff. 

For all I know people have way, way deeper pockets than I there, so I am not and don't really complain  

[grendel013]

On 8/29/2024 at 11:17 AM, Artboy99 said:

On another note: why do show attendees ask to see/hold books they absolutely will not buy? As an example: I saw a video on YouTube from a user named "Stickygoose" where he asked to see a Mask #1 priced at $14,000. Just baffles me that people will do this.

Ah. Stickygoose. The guy who genuinely seems like a nice guy but just rubs everyone the wrong way. Asking to hold a $14K book with absolutely no intent to buy. If I were the dealer I would have declined his request. People in general need to put their phones and cameras down when they are at a con (or ANY event) so these "content creators" are just making it worse. I admit I watch some YouTube stupidity but I do love to point out their social unawareness. Just because they feel the need to "make content" doesn't give them free reign to violate social norms.

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 8/29/2024 at 8:08 AM, blazingbob said:

or graded for that matter (CGC doesn't time stamp their books either).

[blazingbob]

On 8/29/2024 at 12:56 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

Is it visible on the label?  

Have you attempted OCR scans at shows that are crowded.

And if it is pre-OCR am I looking up the serial number assuming I can read it on first gen labels.

Sorry.  

Edited August 29 by blazingbob

[sckao]

The QR code on the BACK of the slab does make looking up the Census details much easier... I wonder if show dealers printing up the QR CODE on like a 3"x3" square for their much more expensive, slabbed, key rack books would help with sales. 

(Or lessen the amount of "handling" a slab may receive and provide possible grading notes.)

The Certification Number on the front is unfortunately too small to see usually from across the aisle personally.

 

[BlowUpTheMoon]

On 8/29/2024 at 8:20 AM, 1Cool said:

I've always thought about driving up to Niagara Falls and Toronto to attend some of the shows up there but then I see show recaps posted on the boards and the prices just seem crazy high.  Even when the Canadian dollar is weak it still doesn't seem worth the time or effort to travel across the border to attend shows when we have shows like Baltimore and Heroes a fairly short drive away.

I haven't gone to a Niagara Falls, Ont. show since 2019 or so, as my passport expired.  But it used to be a great show to buy at.  I got to see dealers I don't normally see. 

[Neo "The One"]

On 8/29/2024 at 11:22 AM, Stefan_W said:

The first show I ever did I brought a Hulk 181 that was 7.0 to draw attention to my booth, and I priced it at the market value at the time. I had people asking to hold it and a couple took selfies with it, but it sat and did not sell. Ditto when I brought an ASM 1, DD 1, etc. After a while I figured out that not only were those books not selling, but the people who were asking to see those books were not hanging out and buying other stuff. 

As time went on I switched to smaller and more affordable slabs, and devoted half my wall space to slabbed minor keys in the $100-$300 which is typically one of the sweet spots for pricing to sell. After not selling a single slab in three consecutive shows I finally accepted that it was the wrong venue for slabs. The last show I devoted my entire wall to nice raws and my take home from that show was about 50% higher than usual. Lesson learned from my perspective. 

The first show I ever did I had a Hulk 181 9.2 and SOLD it.  Many many years ago.  Talk about sellers regret.   *In fact I had another copy (mild resto - not slabbed, and fully disclosed) I also sold at the same show!  gddmit!

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 8/29/2024 at 10:21 AM, blazingbob said:

Is it visible on the label?  

On 8/29/2024 at 8:08 AM, blazingbob said:

Unless the date of pricing is noted you have NO idea when then book was priced,  or graded for that matter (CGC doesn't time stamp their books either).

On 8/29/2024 at 10:21 AM, blazingbob said:

Have you attempted OCR scans at shows that are crowded.

On 8/29/2024 at 10:21 AM, blazingbob said:

And if it is pre-OCR am I looking up the serial number assuming I can read it on first gen labels.

[manetteska]

On 8/29/2024 at 10:08 AM, blazingbob said:

The topic of "convention pricing,  website pricing,  store pricing" etc has been the topic of discussion for YEARS.  

Please note that the pricing of a book that you see in front of you is a snapshot in time.  Unless the date of pricing is noted you have NO idea when then book was priced,  or graded for that matter (CGC doesn't time stamp their books either).

I could have priced the book in 2011 or based on a New indicator in the last 90 days.  My pool in the pricing of books using historical data is much bigger then some think.  

The True test of a seller is when there is no historical data.  

Sometimes it takes the simple task of asking the seller without being confrontational how did you come up with the pricing.    

But hey I get it,  we are BOTH mind readers since while you are pouring over your phone,  overstreet price guide or simply thinking "how did he come up with this price" I am doing the same of the person in front of me.  

The continuing battle of "Us" versus "Them" continues to this day.  When you are on the dealer side you become the "Us",  when you are the buyer you become the "Them".

Unless a price sticker becomes a LED like your local gas station this topic will continue.

But most of the examples given in this thread are readily available books, with readily available pricing (current and historic) -- not "ghosts".

No one is asking for Dow Jones-like price changes on comics, but for the national dealers who ostensibly make their living selling comic books, is it too much to ask to update inventory (at least wall books) once a year before the convention season?

[sckao]

Is there really a convention season or do comic shows actually happen consistently throughout the year now?
 

[ComicsAndCode]

On 8/29/2024 at 10:36 AM, sckao said:

The QR code on the BACK of the slab does make looking up the Census details much easier... I wonder if show dealers printing up the QR CODE on like a 3"x3" square for their much more expensive, slabbed, key rack books would help with sales. 

(Or lessen the amount of "handling" a slab may receive and provide possible grading notes.)

The Certification Number on the front is unfortunately too small to see usually from across the aisle personally.

 

I decided to do something similar - I wrote a tool that generates and prints out QR code labels. With that, customers at my booth scan the code to begin a cashless purchase in the online store - they scan all the books they want to buy (raw and graded), then checkout with their payment of choice. By the way, they can also navigate to the product detail page of cgc books for access to the census data if they choose.

I used the feature at the last 3 shows that I did...feedback from customers was overall positive but it's definitely in beta mode. I noticed that it worked very well in the scenario where customer had a stack of raw comics - they scanned through all the books within seconds and checked out. No need to pull out a calculator or do mental math...and if they asked for a discount, i just passed along a discount code they can use at checkout. A work in progress, i'd like to productize it somehow.

So basically, you can get really creative with the use of the QR code!

Example:

Edited August 30 by ComicsAndCode

[Happy Noodle Boy]

On 8/26/2024 at 1:36 PM, Chip Cataldo said:

If you're buying even a $50 book blind without any market research, you're a fool.

There are, for me at least, extenuating circumstances here. Even for CGC graded books, no two books in the same condition are alike. And if I'm looking for one of my "grail" books, I'm very particular about its condition. For instance, ASM #39, first John Romita Spidey issue. I'm in the market for something in the VF range. But I hate miswraps. That eliminates a lot of the existing copies out there. I also hate extensive corner damage, such as corner abrasions, where the corners have been dinged so often they look like grated cheese. That eliminates a ton more. I also don't want any stains on the cover. That eliminates even more. I don't want date stamps, or any kind of writing on the cover. By this point I may have eliminated three-quarters of the available VF-range copies. So if I'm at a convention and I find a copy that meets all my criteria, I'll be willing to pay extra for it.