Haggling. An ingrained part of the hobby? 1 1

[Darwination]

This might belong in the newbie collector's area, but I've been collecting for forty years now and have only figured out some things recently.

I asked @OtherEric a little while back if he asks for a discount at his LCS, and the answer is yes.  I'm not a con goer but see these ridiculous prices in the pictures people post here of cons and hear, "That's only the wall price."  That is to say, there's the expectation of negotiation.  Even on our board sales, some sellers seem to post these types of prices with the understanding that they are open to reasonable offers or the expectation that there will be a price reduction or few.  I've never negotiated in comic shops.   If an eBayer doesn't have the "make best offer" button on, I don't PM them asking for one.   Since I've started selling off some of my collection, I've realized there's almost this expectation of negotiations.  eBay insists that you'll sell more if you allow "make an offer." Haggling over a house is one thing - haggling over a fifty dollar comic book is another.

Is this haggling bit the same across collectibles?  Why does buying a high priced comic book feel like negotiating for a used car?  Does all this haggling just reward the most annoying type of seller and the most annoying type of buyer?  Some people, many people, seem to enjoy it.   Some seem to know it's not always cool to haggle but do it anyway - "Would you take XXX for this book?  Doesn't hurt to ask." in an eBay PM when there is no offer button, etc.  If I have to price 20 percent higher because I'm expecting to take an 80 percent offer, aren't we doing a bunch of unnecessary gymnastics here?  Likewise, if I just pay the ask without the haggle, does that me a weakling? "It doesn't hurt to ask" is a fallacy.  Adding steps to the sales process is a pain in the a**.

Does it have to be like this?

[OtherEric]

To some degree, yes, it does have to be like this.  Some of that is just tradition.  But some of that is the fact that, given that you're dealing with vintage items, and that condition is so important, is that every item is unique.  And the market can change quickly as certain items grow or decrease in demand.  When there are a hundred copies of something out there, you can pick and choose.  But when you're dealing with something that the current one of one on the market, you pretty much have to figure out the price as an unique circumstance.  And that means, in many cases, negotiating or at least asking.  Yes, some people do it to the point of being annoying.  But just as often it's a legitimate step in figuring out a fair value for an unique item.

While I did say I'll sometimes ask for a discount, it's maybe 10% of the time at best... and generally, I have some point to articulate as to WHY I feel the price is off.  It may be showing other similar copies I can buy online, or recent sales, or a bit of flaw or damage to the book that I'm not sure the seller spotted.  But my default is go for the asking price unless I have a specific reason not to.

One other point:  When I don't haggle, it's actually not uncommon for dealers to offer me a discount if I'm buying multiple items, or I'm a regular customer, or something else.  Even when it's explicit, it's often built in on the seller's end even if the buyer doesn't ask.

[Darwination]

That last part gets me, too.  I'm not a super regular customer at my LCS (I like gold and pulps, neither of which they tend to have) but I've gotten a little more chummy over the years and started getting a little discount at the end the last few years.  It's appreciated, but I realize that there's this wiggle room there I never knew about

Giving a price break on multiple books, making a sweet offer the next time, paying shipping - I feel good doing all that stuff as a seller.  Getting asked, "What's the best you can do on this book?" I do not like. In fact, I find it quite rude.

 

[ThothAmon]

My buddy who’s like you, never haggles either. His reasoning is that he expects the vendors best price from the onset.  If it’s too high he walks away.  I’m the opposite unless time is of the essence. If a quote involves labor on the other hand I never negotiate.  They’ll just do less if they lower their price. 
 

[KCOComics]

When I was a younger man, I would haggle and I was obnoxious. I would ask for huge discounts. And what's kind of crazy is, sometimes I got them. 

 

These days, I pretty much ignore any book I feel is priced to high.  And if someone has a fairly priced book,  I feel like it's almost disrespectful to try to haggle. 

My local comic shop just got a beautiful TOS39. They priced it about 40% over GPA. They said "its never been pressed and after a good press,  it will get a 1 to 2 grade bump".  I could have argued the point,  but I just said "good luck!"

Edited September 11 by KCOComics

[joeypost]

I haggle all the time. 

[VintageComics]

On 9/10/2024 at 7:54 PM, Darwination said:

Does it have to be like this?

Haggling is a part of civilization.

As commodities and services became more standardized in society, people have become more accustomed to not haggling and just paying the price asked. But in older, or less advanced cultures it's not only common, it's the rule. 

If you go to either underdeveloped nations or older nations where older culture persists and hasn't been whitewashed, haggling is often the norm and if you're not haggling when buying something you're actually likely getting ripped off and paying more than everyone else is for the same items. 

People psychologically fall into two general types - agreeable and non-agreeable, and agreeable people don't like haggling. They generally feel that paying the asking price is the right thing to do. That's fine when everyone is on the same page and operating under the same rules, but snakeoil salespeople sense agreeableness and take advantage of it so it's not a good thing to be too agreeable.

Non-agreeable people generally have less problem haggling. They don't feel as bad negotiating, since they likely feel it's on the other person to state what their bottom line is but they can be too strong about it if they don't do it respectfully.

I know I'm generalizing, but you get the point. 

There is NOTHING wrong with haggling or asking for a lower price, as long as it's done respectfully and not using lies or deceit to get a deal. 

And there is also NOTHING wrong with paying someone's price, as long as you don't resent your choice if possibly hearing that someone else got it cheaper.

And there's NOTHING wrong with holding your price. 

People who are too agreeable need to learn to be a little less agreeable, and visa versa.

Life is actually a negotiation with yourself. How's that for "is haggling an ingrained part of the hobby"? 

Personally, I think I'm both. I can be both highly agreeable, with Golden Retriever energy, but I can also be very non-agreeable with Pit Bull energy if I feel something is unfair. 

I hate conflict but have no problem making it if it needs to be done. 

That's my take on it. 

Edited September 11 by VintageComics

[shadroch]

If you know the seller has some wiggle room, and you chose to pay full price, it doesn't show weakness, but it shows you aren't a savvy consumer.  I rarely discount a single book, but three books can get you a sweet deal.

[WolverineX]

 Always haggle.  Put in the work.  like everything else in life,  it's all a big game.   

 

[Hschwartz]

This is an interesting topic. I agree with Vintage Comics that as long as you do it respectfully there's nothing wrong with making a lower offer or asking for a better price. Comic collecting is fun particularly in the old days when most people were truly in it for the enjoyment and not for making a profit. The reason I find it interesting is that like KCO Comics I have totally changed over the years. When I was a kid attending the New York Cons in the Seventies I haggled over everything. My thought was I could always pay full price if my offer is turned down so why not try to get a better deal. Now that I'm in my sixties I almost never haggle about anything. It just isn't worth it to me. If the dealer has a reasonable price I'd rather just buy it than haggle even if I could have gotten it cheaper. If a book is overpriced I don't complain I just move on to the next dealer. I still think that haggling is perfectly acceptable. I just don't feel like doing it anymore. I'm curious if other people have changed like I have or are still the same after collecting for decades.

[ttfitz]

 

[mintcomics1]

Darn right it is.

Getting a good deal is always sweeter.

[VintageComics]

On 9/11/2024 at 1:16 AM, Hschwartz said:

This is an interesting topic. I agree with Vintage Comics that as long as you do it respectfully there's nothing wrong with making a lower offer or asking for a better price. Comic collecting is fun particularly in the old days when most people were truly in it for the enjoyment and not for making a profit. The reason I find it interesting is that like KCO Comics I have totally changed over the years. When I was a kid attending the New York Cons in the Seventies I haggled over everything. My thought was I could always pay full price if my offer is turned down so why not try to get a better deal. Now that I'm in my sixties I almost never haggle about anything. It just isn't worth it to me. If the dealer has a reasonable price I'd rather just buy it than haggle even if I could have gotten it cheaper. If a book is overpriced I don't complain I just move on to the next dealer. I still think that haggling is perfectly acceptable. I just don't feel like doing it anymore. I'm curious if other people have changed like I have or are still the same after collecting for decades.

We have a very different outlook on life when we're a broke kid with little life experience and when we're established adults with lots of life experience.

When you're young and scrappy and looking to make a way through life, you fight for every nickel and dime.

Time and peace of mind is more valuable than money for most when they get older. 

[namisgr]

Volume discounts are a real thing, and they can benefit both buyer and seller.  So I have no problem with making offers when buying that are below seller asking price, and no problem with giving volume discounts as a seller when there's benefit to me in moving the selection and quantity of books under negotiation.

Lowball offers, on the other hand, are a waste of time for those involved.

[Ken Aldred]

Several dealers on here have stated that a discount is factored into their starting price, anyway, the nominal 10 %. Which I’ve received.

I don’t come from a family with a trading background, never received nurturing that way, never felt comfortable haggling, playing negotiating games, and never developed any interest in it.

This contrasts with a collecting friend who I regularly saw haggling over just one comic which would be stickered at an absolutely outrageous, stratospheric, nosebleed price, such as £2.

 

Edited September 11 by Ken Aldred

[MAY1979]

There are cultures where paying the advertised price is considered an insult. To not haggle is offensive behavior.

With collectibles its part of the fun.

So of the best recent memories I have at Cons are haggling with Anthony. Believe you me he doesn't need the money either way, but he like many dealers loves the game. Not that DeeDee boooggggg Boston dealer however best to just walk on by that Vile truthless grump.

Bottom line; Anyone who never haggles over a Comic Book IMHO is a rube

Edited September 11 by MAY1979

[BraveDave]

I am fine paying the asking price. Also, very willing to haggle and even make offers significantly lower than asking price (“lowball”).

The reason is simple: I have a price in mind where I value the item and I will not pay more than that amount. Also, I want to have the broadest range of potential opportunities to acquire that item. Closing off the universe to those who initially price high, reduces that range of opportunities (since I cannot know in advance at what price anyone may be willing to sell).

This approach applies to anything above a certain price point and anything where the seller attempts to set a unique price and has power to adjust. Houses, cars, comics, any collectibles. Not haggling at the grocery store with the sales clerk… 

When an item is fairly priced I am also willing to pay full asking price. So there is no “necessity” to haggle, it is all case-by-case.

 

edit: what some call a lowball offer may be at a fair price. It may be the seller’s ask is preposterously above market. Sometimes it is a seller tactic to make someone feel like they’re getting a deal by negotiating a discount. Sometimes the seller has no intent to sell. As a buyer, cannot normally distinguish so I largely ignore the asking price entirely unless I see a pattern. There is an ebay seller that prices everything 30-50%+ above FMV… I have no interest in wasting MY time as I know they won’t sell for FMV. 

Edited September 11 by BraveDave

[grendel013]

I love dickering. But only when appropriate and reciprocated.

[Ken Aldred]

On 9/11/2024 at 1:34 PM, BraveDave said:

I am fine paying the asking price. Also, very willing to haggle and even make offers significantly lower than asking price (“lowball”).

The reason is simple: I have a price in mind where I value the item and I will not pay more than that amount. Also, I want to have the broadest range of potential opportunities to acquire that item. Closing off the universe to those who initially price high, reduces that range of opportunities (since I cannot know in advance at what price anyone may be willing to sell).

This approach applies to anything above a certain price point and anything where the seller attempts to set a unique price and has power to adjust. Houses, cars, comics, any collectibles. Not haggling at the grocery store with the sales clerk… 

When an item is fairly priced I am also willing to pay full asking price. So there is no “necessity” to haggle, it is all case-by-case.

I recently went to a camera store to have some passport photos taken, where you’d get a sheet of four, as with a Photo Booth, and an additional digital copy. The guy in front of me informed the clerk that he only needed one, so could he just pay a quarter of the price for a single copy?

I pointed out you’d have to pay for all four at a Photo Booth, so what was he quibbling about?

The copies are always worth having for later use.

Cultural, religious, familial nurture, personality, we may have different combinations of driving forces, so expect vast differences in outlook.

Each to their own. I wouldn’t call myself a rube; I just don’t care about the gameplay.

Edited September 11 by Ken Aldred

[BraveDave]

On 9/11/2024 at 8:46 AM, Ken Aldred said:

I recently went to a camera store to have some passport photos taken, where you’d get a sheet of four, as with a Photo Booth, and an additional digital copy. The guy in front of me informed the clerk that he only needed one, so could he just pay a quarter of the price for a single copy?

I pointed out you’d have to pay for all four at a Photo Booth, so what was he quibbling about?

The copies are always worth having for later use.

Cultural, religious, familial nurture, personality, we may have different combinations of driving forces, so expect vast differences in outlook.

Each to their own. I wouldn’t call myself a rube; I just don’t care about the gameplay.

In that example a) the clerk should just ignore and explain the prices are fixed and b) the person haggling crosses into the area of “cheapskate” in my book.

The cost to produce “one photo” is not 1/4 the cost to produce four photos plus the digital… it is a recoupment of the machine, its maintenance/depreciation, the lost revenue from occupying floorspace and the time of the clerk. With the customer attempting to haggle a discount, they are in fact costing the store more money than the customer that just gets the four photos.

If I were the clerk I’d tell them I need to raise the price to account for this extra time…