Haggling. An ingrained part of the hobby? 1 1

[Ken Aldred]

On 9/11/2024 at 1:53 PM, BraveDave said:

In that example a) the clerk should just ignore and explain the prices are fixed and b) the person haggling crosses into the area of “cheapskate” in my book.

The cost to produce “one photo” is not 1/4 the cost to produce four photos plus the digital… it is a recoupment of the machine, its maintenance/depreciation, the lost revenue from occupying floorspace and the time of the clerk. With the customer attempting to haggle a discount, they are in fact costing the store more money than the customer that just gets the four photos.

If I were the clerk I’d tell them I need to raise the price to account for this extra time…

Spot on.

[namisgr]

On 9/11/2024 at 8:34 AM, BraveDave said:

edit: what some call a lowball offer may be at a fair price. 

Agreed, as some may define 'lowball'.  For me, a lowball offer is one that is substantially below the current fair market value of the sale item(s), and in that case the offer isn't made in good negotiating faith.

[BuscemasAvengers]

If the seller isn't willing to move on a listed price (i.e. 'firm'), then why haggle? But if they are, then I like the act of negotiating a fair price for both buyer and seller.  If I'm buying a book, I prefer to approach (and begin) negotiations with a range, and hope the seller presents a range as well.  I might see the FMV of a book between $300-$500 (and provide reasons for that range), and the seller may see it as being between $400-$600 (also providing reasons to support). And if enough of the range vens overlap into a comfort zone for both, then off we head down the haggle road to (hopefully) a deal.

[ThothAmon]

I’ve cut my face from the photo to protect the innocent. In reality I’m just a very strict grader …
 

Edited September 11 by ThothAmon

[Robot Man]

As a buyer:

If a price is fair or even crazy low (like at a flea market), I just pay it.

If the seller and I are reasonably close, I will make a fair offer and maybe meet in the middle if I really want it.

If the price is way too high, I just say thanks and move on.

As a seller:

I price what I need with a “discount” figured it. Depending what it is, I might discount a little more. On better books, my discount is less to maybe none. No point in pricing it way too high to begin with. It just turns off potential buyers.

Frankly, I have never really enjoyed the discount game much. It’s not a game but simply a business transaction. I don’t want to spend a lot of time game playing. But it is part of the process  I guess. 

[ajcomics]

At most of the cons I've been to lately, it doesn't even make sense to start negotiations since most of the books are significantly over priced. Even suggesting a FMV price will most likely offend the seller and create an awkward moment. In those situations, I just keep walking. 

[Robot Man]

I’ve been buying and selling comics and other items of “Americana” for over 50 years. I think I have heard every form of negotiation known to Man. A few that really get to me are.

”What is your best price?” Well, I already said my price. If you have a problem with it, make me an offer. I can’t sell it and buy it at the same time. If I am pushed again, I might give it to you. At that point, I have done what you asked. That’s it. Coming back on me with a lower price usually means you will leave without it.

”It isn’t worth that” I usually agree with that. My response is take it to 7-11 and see if they will give you a carton of milk for it. At the end of the day, this is junk people threw away. 98 percent of all people can’t understand why any sane person would pay anything for it. Comes down to the buyer and seller. Sometimes it is worth more to me to keep it rather than sell it.

”It is my Grail” or “For my personal collection” and then you see it turn up on another table or ebay. If it is, you should be willing to pay full price and walk away happy…

The list could go on forever…

Edited September 11 by Robot Man

[MAY1979]

On 9/11/2024 at 10:40 AM, ajcomics said:

At most of the cons I've been to lately, it doesn't even make sense to start negotiations since most of the books are significantly over priced. Even suggesting a FMV price will most likely offend the seller and create an awkward moment. In those situations, I just keep walking. 

If I can offend a comic book seller then thats even better than getting the discount!

[Robot Man]

On 9/11/2024 at 8:42 AM, MAY1979 said:

If I can offend a comic book seller then thats even better than getting the discount!

I will take this as a joke. Just keep in mind that comic sellers don’t get “rich” selling at cons. It is work, often very hard work bringing cool stuff to shows for us to enrich our collections. Not a lot to ask to encourage the best sellers to show up and being rewarded a little…

[Dr. Balls]

On 9/11/2024 at 6:56 AM, namisgr said:

Agreed, as some may define 'lowball'.  For me, a lowball offer is one that is substantially below the current fair market value of the sale item(s), and in that case the offer isn't made in good negotiating faith.

That should be the definition, and I think most anyone can agree with that. However, there is a lot of latitude in the definition of lowball between 'Butthurt-over-offering-FMV-on-an-item-priced-at-2x-FMV' and '20%-off-FMV-hoping-someone-needs-a-quick-sale'. 

Sellers can ask whatever they want, but I take umbrage over the using the term 'lowball' when the majority of the time it's used to describe someone making a legitimate discounted FMV offer - which is not really a low offer in my opinion. It's just a starting offer the seller can come up from.

[southern cross]

What's this PC,  for the personal collection?

Do collectors have a non personal collection they're keeping.

My "PC" Collection starts at the front door of my condo and ends by the glass sliding door of the deck. (The dog owns everything on the deck as hers)

[Chip Cataldo]

I price everything I sell to be the lowest comp on eBay. That way when people search for "lowest price" mine comes up first.

I still get people offering 25-50% of what my price is. Not "off" but "of."

I use my block list every time that happens. That's what it's for. You found my listing because I'm the lowest and you offered 25% of that. That's disrespect, so eff off. I don't want to deal with you, ever.

That being said, if they want an additional 5-10% off I usually always take it. Cash flow is king and I'm not running a museum. I'm in the business of selling things, not holding things.

[BraveDave]

On 9/11/2024 at 12:09 PM, Dr. Balls said:

That should be the definition, and I think most anyone can agree with that. However, there is a lot of latitude in the definition of lowball between 'Butthurt-over-offering-FMV-on-an-item-priced-at-2x-FMV' and '20%-off-FMV-hoping-someone-needs-a-quick-sale'. 

Sellers can ask whatever they want, but I take umbrage over the using the term 'lowball' when the majority of the time it's used to describe someone making a legitimate discounted FMV offer - which is not really a low offer in my opinion. It's just a starting offer the seller can come up from.

Exactly, which is why I generally ignore asking prices when making an offer.

I reference transacted prices, where possible, and then (of course) my own personal value on getting a deal done. 

One area where I expect sellers to list at exceptionally high levels is for extremely rare items. There have been books that sold (a few hours before I saw them listed) for half the price I’d be willing to pay. Even if they sold nearer where an objective “FMV” would peg them, the rarity and value I personally attach meant I’d be willing to significantly “overpay” to secure the item. 

[BraveDave]

On 9/11/2024 at 2:42 PM, Chip Cataldo said:

I price everything I sell to be the lowest comp on eBay. That way when people search for "lowest price" mine comes up first.

I still get people offering 25-50% of what my price is. Not "off" but "of."

I use my block list every time that happens. That's what it's for. You found my listing because I'm the lowest and you offered 25% of that. That's disrespect, so eff off. I don't want to deal with you, ever.

That being said, if they want an additional 5-10% off I usually always take it. Cash flow is king and I'm not running a museum. I'm in the business of selling things, not holding things.

It is also often the “optimal” strategy in a normal market. Only in a rapidly rising market does it sometimes pay off to take incremental price increases over volume. Especially if this allows reinvestment into new inventory. The other piece is maintaining enough speed of inventory to manage when things normalize or go south…

I collect things besides comics and in one sphere of collecting keep finding myself using the same seller. They price at market and aren’t really open to haggling… so I don’t bother. They are priced better for the same quality of product as those who list at a 10-20% premium. But they noticeably turn inventory far more quickly. That volume often also has them be a prime candidate for people trading in or trading up… so a volume pickup on both sides.

I only buy comics and don’t sell them, but it I were in it as a business I’d be looking to establish nimbleness and volume to reduce my exposure when the market (inevitably) turns. The other approach is much more like speculation, and that reward has its commensurate risk…

[Chip Cataldo]

On 9/11/2024 at 2:52 PM, BraveDave said:

...but it I were in it as a business I’d be looking to establish nimbleness and volume to reduce my exposure...

This is what I've done. Thousands of listings across multiple hobbies. Some weeks it's comics, some weeks video games, some weeks sports cards, some weeks toys...etc...etc...

I list up new inventory often but never in the same category. Rotation that way expands interest in the business organically.

[LowGradeBronze]

I won't haggle in a shop setting but at a comic fair or toy fair I reckon the fun is getting a few items together and asking the seller what the total is, and more often than not they will round down, say £22 becomes £20. If not I ask, take £20 for them? Around 10pc seems to be the expected amount to discount or ask for as a discount. After all, they are there to sell and rely on buyers not browsers to achieve that aim.

[MAY1979]

On 9/11/2024 at 1:03 PM, southern cross said:

What's this PC,  for the personal collection?

Do collectors have a non personal collection they're keeping.

My "PC" Collection starts at the front door of my condo and ends by the glass sliding door of the deck. (The dog owns everything on the deck as hers)

I've a buddy who collects trading cards. He is not a dealer or seller yet he refers to his collection as "PC"

As the kids say; he's so Mid and what he says is cringe

[VintageComics]

On 9/11/2024 at 8:53 AM, BraveDave said:

If I were the clerk I’d tell them I need to raise the price to account for this extra time…

I've done this when someone was unreasonable haggling. I just raised the price and their response was worth it. 

[VintageComics]

On 9/11/2024 at 10:40 AM, ajcomics said:

At most of the cons I've been to lately, it doesn't even make sense to start negotiations since most of the books are significantly over priced. Even suggesting a FMV price will most likely offend the seller and create an awkward moment. In those situations, I just keep walking. 

Because there are just SO MANY different variables to a person's personality, you can weed out inflexible people very quickly with a simple question. 

Just ask "Are you firm on your prices?"

It's not at all offensive, it's polite and it gets you the answer you want immediately. 

If they say they're firm, then you have your answer. These people are like 1/100.

If they say they have some room, then you can politely negotiate.

99% of the sellers want to sell and likely NEED to sell something, and won't be unreasonable as long as you're not unreasonable. Most people return the energy you send out.

The 1% of unreasonable people are either mentally ill or just don't want to sell but they don't represent the majority. Either way, it's no big loss. 

I've even had unreasonable people sell me the same book cheaper at a later show, once reality sets in. Love it when that happens.

[VintageComics]

Also, there are still some people with 2021 pricing still haven't repriced their books to account for current market fluctuations. I still see it all the time.

You never know until you ask. 

Edited September 11 by VintageComics