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Stan Lee Lied - Your Handy Guide to Every Lie in the 'Origins of Marvel Comics'
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Started by Prince Namor,

1,142 posts in this topic

Buzzetta

Buzzetta

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On 9/22/2024 at 5:35 PM, EastEnd1 said:

Is there a way to put an entire topic on ignore?  This one refuses to leave the top spot and it's giving me a headache.

You can “John Cena” the thread by clicking the top where it says “followers” to make sure you are not following it nor getting alerts.  Then all you have to do is scroll past it. 

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PopKulture

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On 9/22/2024 at 6:08 PM, namisgr said:

If you think that the content of the word balloons and narration boxes were written by Steve and Jack, you haven't compared it adequately to the writing in SA books not pencilled by Steve or Jack or to the writing that Steve and Jack did after leaving Marvel.  Or, more simply, compared the writing in Hulk #5 with Hulk #6, with Jack and Steve sequentially on pencils - hint: the writing is comparable between the two, and consistent with the other SA comics of the time that Stan is credited with writing.

Some pages of Kirby art from the early days feature his dialogue, and they’re worth reviewing - at times Lee tweaked dialogue and other times he re-wrote it, but the gist was the same: hence, he did not change the plot. Again, there should’ve been some kind of recognition (and compensation) for co-plotting or co-writing, and there wasn’t: Lee took both credit and compensation. 

Your above example can be countered with an example earlier in this thread: if Lee is the constant story-wise, why does Ditko Spider-Man feel drastically different than Romita Spider-Man? After all, he’s just assigning a different artist… And then too, after twenty-some years in the business, why did Lee have nothing of note before Kirby and Ditko arrived? Nobody is pointing out issues of Millie the Model for being groundbreaking.  Why did this great writer write nothing of note before he could hide amongst the murkiness of the “Marvel Method?” Again, nobody I know is saying Lee did nothing, but he certainly didn’t write the actual stories. 

Returning a moment to the music analogy, if I bring someone my demo of a new song - music and lyrics - and they change the wording of a verse or two, or suggest a different outro, maybe they deserve a songwriting co-credit, sure, but they don’t get to now erase my name as a writer and list me simply as “guitarist.” 

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namisgr

namisgr

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I posted nothing about credit or compensation.  I responded to this claim of yours: "He didn’t write the stories: he sometimes edited their dialogue ".

Read Hulk #5 (pencilled by Kirby) and Hulk #6 (drawn by Ditko) and tell me if you still think Jack wrote #5 and Steve wrote #6.  Wrote (not plotted or co-plotted).

 

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Buzzetta

Buzzetta

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On 9/22/2024 at 7:21 PM, jdandns said:

Any book after Riesman's that attempts to deflate the Stan Lee myth is simply beating a dead horse. I'm looking forward to reading her new one on Vince McMahon.

The Netflix docu-series is rumored to be a very honest and brutal take on the public perception of Vince McMahon holding back no punches.   I am very interested in how they address the events surrounding Rita Chatterton in light of the recent events over the last year. 

Edited by Buzzetta
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JollyComics

JollyComics

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On 9/22/2024 at 11:16 AM, Prince Namor said:

I thought Joe Simon claimed HE created Cap all by himself so which is it? Which version supports what you're argueing now?

Yes, Joe created and scripted and Jack drew Cap together in 1941. 

Joe Simon was told to hire Stan Lee.  Here is the story -

https://www.cbr.com/stan-lee-marvel-comics-timely-comics-hired/

Last issue of Captain America Comics was in 1954 and Cap was reappeared in few different issues but it died out.  The copyright was good until 1966 but Stan Less resurrected Cap in Marvel Comics in 1964.  Probably, Jack told Joe about it.

In 1966, Joe Simon sued Marvel Comics, asserting that he was legally entitled to renew the copyright on the character upon the expiration of the original 28-year term. The two parties settled out of court, with Simon agreeing to a statement that the character had been created under terms of employment by the publisher, and was therefore work for hire owned by the company.

 

Personally, I knew Stan Lee didn't create many characters but he resurrected or revised old characters out of 1940's and 1950's and "burrowed" some characters from DC to alter them.

 

 

 

Edited by JollyComics
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Buzzetta

Buzzetta

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On 9/22/2024 at 5:17 PM, Paul © ® ⚽️💙™ said:

Two points.

First off why are people constantly bring up The Beatles? The comparison is ridiculous.

Second your point is just flat out random. Completely irrelevant.

Personally I would have brought up the Smiths.

Marr creates the music, the art.

Morrissey created the lyrics, the writing. 

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Ken Aldred

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Not really feeling it's much different now to having gone to a convention, meeting a creator you've idolised for decades, having some form of crushing, negative experience, destroying the illusion you built up about them. More than one of those.

Very interesting to read, but through repetition, in person, online,  I've become a bit desensitised to angsty comic book iconoclasm.

Quite a bit of material I didn't know about, though. Which is good.

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CGC Mike

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On 9/22/2024 at 5:35 PM, EastEnd1 said:

Is there a way to put an entire topic on ignore?  This one refuses to leave the top spot and it's giving me a headache.

Not really.  Even with the ban from topic.  If I click on block topic viewing, people can still view the topic.  

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marvelcollector

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Ordered the book.

Should be interesting. Look forward to it.

On a completely unrelated note, from one of the videos I noticed Stan Lee was left handed (didn't know that) and wore his watch on his left wrist. I wear the watch on my strong wrist as well and haven't found anybody else that did the same. Just a weird observation.

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Dr Zen

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On 9/22/2024 at 6:52 PM, Buzzetta said:

Personally I would have brought up the Smiths.

Marr creates the music, the art.

Morrissey created the lyrics, the writing. 

I would use the team of Elton John and Bernie Taupin. Elton is the public face that everybody knows and Bernie is behind the scenes.

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Prince Namor

Prince Namor

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On 9/23/2024 at 5:29 AM, Albert Tatlock said:

He did at least go on the record more than once to acknowledge his debt to the Bard, but of course he didn't have to pay him.

And of course anyone who knows Shakespeare in anything more than just name recognition, knows it's a truly silly comparison.

Lee wrote incredibly WEAK women characters who fainted, deferred to the men, worried about their hair, etc.

Shakespeare wrote incredibly STRONG women who were... generally more capable and at times more head strong than the men.

Hmmm... sounds more like Kirby's writing (His Romance books, June Robbins, Big Barda)

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