Latest Scandal! Comic Book Dealer Disbarred As Lawyer!!!!

[mica]

Please. My comments were made in a constructive manner ....

You called people clowns

[testinadical-migration]

They just say it isn't about pressing it is about disclosure. They need to show me what is so wrong with pressing that I NEED to disclose it. I hope that makes sense, if not call me and I will try to explain better.

Yes, it makes sense, and I would look at it like this: There is value added to a transaction that is hidden from one party, making for an economic imbalance. A book gets pressed from a 9.2 to 9.8 and sold to me for 3x the price. For argument's sake, let's say the difference is $500. Well, I could have bought the book as a 9.2, had the pressing done myself - I think $40 was the figure thrown around - and had a 9.8 a lot cheaper. The fact that pressing is a viable business model suggests that the value added by pressing is greater than the cost, and based on some numbers in this thread, the difference may be extremely high. Maybe it's irrational, but most people in that situation who later find that a book was pressed are going to feel that they got jobbed.

 

Would someone value 2 9.8s, one pressed, and one not, the same? Don't know, but I would value a 9.2 a lot higher when I consider it 'pressable' and a 9.8 (pressed or not) a lot lower because I could buy a 9.2 and have it pressed instead of paying the multiple. In a rational world, buyers would bid down 9.8 prices proportionally to the likelihood that high-grade books are pressed lower-grade books, cutting into the high-grade multiples and thinning the margins sellers earn by pressing. Maybe that will happen, but who ever said this market was rational?

 

This is all purely hypothetical from my POV, as I'm a small-timer and an utter nobody. I highly doubt I'll be buying any pressed books soon. But it's an interesting economic mental exercise.

 

This is the most concise and clear response to my point so far. And it gets to the heart of the argument. So let me add some more fuel to the fire. If we are talking about CGC holdered books, why should a book that isn't pressed be worth more than a book that is? I know emotionally one response would be "well, it's untouched, virgin, unmanipulated", but intellectually explain to me why two books in the same grade with the same defects, paper quality etc. should be worth different prices. To me, they aren't.

 

Your last sentence is the crux of the situation. To you it's not...but to others it obviously does. You as the seller should be more concerned with what your customers possibly ARE concerned with.

 

Why will some pay a little bit more for white pages over OW/white? Same grade. To many it doesn't matter, yet to some it does.

 

I AM concerned, that is why I am asking. Page quality is something different, and I certainly would prefer White over off/white. I think most would. That is why it is right there on the label. But I am asking WHY others would value two books in the same grade, with the same paper quality, differently. I am sorry if it seems like a stupid question, but I would really like to know.

 

OK....Dealer X hands you two identical copies of the same book. Both CGC 9.6, both white pages. Same centering etc....

 

One is untouched, virgin copy. The other, he tells you, is a pressed copy.

 

Same price. Which do you take?

Whichever looks nicer!

 

They look identical.

 

Exactly! Then why should I care which one I pick. They are both the same.

 

Obvioulsy not.

[FFB]

Please. My comments were made in a constructive manner ....

You called people clowns

 

Not when I made the initial post about the Gallery, you CLOWN!

[OldGuy]

Please. My comments were made in a constructive manner ....

You called people clowns

 

That's constructive where Scott is concerned, just ask him, he'll tell ya.

[FFB]

Please. My comments were made in a constructive manner ....

You called people clowns

 

That's constructive where Scott is concerned, just ask him, he'll tell ya.

 

FU Oldguy.

[towards2112]

Please. My comments were made in a constructive manner ....

You called people clowns

 

That's constructive where Scott is concerned, just ask him, he'll tell ya.

 

[OldGuy]

Please. My comments were made in a constructive manner ....

You called people clowns

 

That's constructive where Scott is concerned, just ask him, he'll tell ya.

 

FU Oldguy.

 

 

FU to buddy.

[deathlok]

Please. My comments were made in a constructive manner ....

You called people clowns

 

That's constructive where Scott is concerned, just ask him, he'll tell ya.

 

FU Oldguy.

 

 

FU to buddy.

After 11 pages, now the thread gets interesting to read.

[towards2112]

They just say it isn't about pressing it is about disclosure. They need to show me what is so wrong with pressing that I NEED to disclose it. I hope that makes sense, if not call me and I will try to explain better.

Yes, it makes sense, and I would look at it like this: There is value added to a transaction that is hidden from one party, making for an economic imbalance. A book gets pressed from a 9.2 to 9.8 and sold to me for 3x the price. For argument's sake, let's say the difference is $500. Well, I could have bought the book as a 9.2, had the pressing done myself - I think $40 was the figure thrown around - and had a 9.8 a lot cheaper. The fact that pressing is a viable business model suggests that the value added by pressing is greater than the cost, and based on some numbers in this thread, the difference may be extremely high. Maybe it's irrational, but most people in that situation who later find that a book was pressed are going to feel that they got jobbed.

 

Would someone value 2 9.8s, one pressed, and one not, the same? Don't know, but I would value a 9.2 a lot higher when I consider it 'pressable' and a 9.8 (pressed or not) a lot lower because I could buy a 9.2 and have it pressed instead of paying the multiple. In a rational world, buyers would bid down 9.8 prices proportionally to the likelihood that high-grade books are pressed lower-grade books, cutting into the high-grade multiples and thinning the margins sellers earn by pressing. Maybe that will happen, but who ever said this market was rational?

 

This is all purely hypothetical from my POV, as I'm a small-timer and an utter nobody. I highly doubt I'll be buying any pressed books soon. But it's an interesting economic mental exercise.

 

This is the most concise and clear response to my point so far. And it gets to the heart of the argument. So let me add some more fuel to the fire. If we are talking about CGC holdered books, why should a book that isn't pressed be worth more than a book that is? I know emotionally one response would be "well, it's untouched, virgin, unmanipulated", but intellectually explain to me why two books in the same grade with the same defects, paper quality etc. should be worth different prices. To me, they aren't.

 

Your last sentence is the crux of the situation. To you it's not...but to others it obviously does. You as the seller should be more concerned with what your customers possibly ARE concerned with.

 

Why will some pay a little bit more for white pages over OW/white? Same grade. To many it doesn't matter, yet to some it does.

 

I AM concerned, that is why I am asking. Page quality is something different, and I certainly would prefer White over off/white. I think most would. That is why it is right there on the label. But I am asking WHY others would value two books in the same grade, with the same paper quality, differently. I am sorry if it seems like a stupid question, but I would really like to know.

 

It's all about integrity, of the seller, not necessarily the book in question.

[rob_allan]

[OldGuy]

Please. My comments were made in a constructive manner ....

You called people clowns

 

That's constructive where Scott is concerned, just ask him, he'll tell ya.

 

FU Oldguy.

 

 

FU to buddy.

After 11 pages, now the thread gets interesting to read.

 

 

I don't even kow what the thread is about, I'm just stalking Scott.

[FFB]

Please. My comments were made in a constructive manner ....

You called people clowns

 

That's constructive where Scott is concerned, just ask him, he'll tell ya.

 

FU Oldguy.

 

 

FU to buddy.

After 11 pages, now the thread gets interesting to read.

 

 

I don't even kow what the thread is about, I'm just stalking Scott.

 

[Dad&Son-migration]

Please. My comments were made in a constructive manner ....

You called people clowns

 

That's constructive where Scott is concerned, just ask him, he'll tell ya.

 

FU Oldguy.

 

 

FU to buddy.

After 11 pages, now the thread gets interesting to read.

 

 

I don't even kow what the thread is about, I'm just stalking Scott.

 

 

Yo... Batman & Robin.. take it outside...

[Scheradon]

They just say it isn't about pressing it is about disclosure. They need to show me what is so wrong with pressing that I NEED to disclose it. I hope that makes sense, if not call me and I will try to explain better.

Yes, it makes sense, and I would look at it like this: There is value added to a transaction that is hidden from one party, making for an economic imbalance. A book gets pressed from a 9.2 to 9.8 and sold to me for 3x the price. For argument's sake, let's say the difference is $500. Well, I could have bought the book as a 9.2, had the pressing done myself - I think $40 was the figure thrown around - and had a 9.8 a lot cheaper. The fact that pressing is a viable business model suggests that the value added by pressing is greater than the cost, and based on some numbers in this thread, the difference may be extremely high. Maybe it's irrational, but most people in that situation who later find that a book was pressed are going to feel that they got jobbed.

 

Would someone value 2 9.8s, one pressed, and one not, the same? Don't know, but I would value a 9.2 a lot higher when I consider it 'pressable' and a 9.8 (pressed or not) a lot lower because I could buy a 9.2 and have it pressed instead of paying the multiple. In a rational world, buyers would bid down 9.8 prices proportionally to the likelihood that high-grade books are pressed lower-grade books, cutting into the high-grade multiples and thinning the margins sellers earn by pressing. Maybe that will happen, but who ever said this market was rational?

 

This is all purely hypothetical from my POV, as I'm a small-timer and an utter nobody. I highly doubt I'll be buying any pressed books soon. But it's an interesting economic mental exercise.

 

This is the most concise and clear response to my point so far. And it gets to the heart of the argument. So let me add some more fuel to the fire. If we are talking about CGC holdered books, why should a book that isn't pressed be worth more than a book that is? I know emotionally one response would be "well, it's untouched, virgin, unmanipulated", but intellectually explain to me why two books in the same grade with the same defects, paper quality etc. should be worth different prices. To me, they aren't.

 

Your last sentence is the crux of the situation. To you it's not...but to others it obviously does. You as the seller should be more concerned with what your customers possibly ARE concerned with.

 

Why will some pay a little bit more for white pages over OW/white? Same grade. To many it doesn't matter, yet to some it does.

 

I AM concerned, that is why I am asking. Page quality is something different, and I certainly would prefer White over off/white. I think most would. That is why it is right there on the label. But I am asking WHY others would value two books in the same grade, with the same paper quality, differently. I am sorry if it seems like a stupid question, but I would really like to know.

 

I know many people who don't really care all that much as long as the PQ doesn't drop to cream or tan. I do think that if given the choice and information up front, that people would choose the white copy over ow/w, just like they would choose the unpressed virgin copy over the pressed one.

 

Does there really need to be a why? Why do you prefer white over ow/w, especially when a book is sealed in a slab where you can't even distinguish the difference without cracking it out? Why do we pay multiples for a book that on a good day is a 9.8, but on a bad day could garner a 9.6? Sometimes we have to just realize that there is no perfect answer to why we (collectors) are so picky and anal about why we desire certain characteristics in what we collect.

[deathlok]

Please. My comments were made in a constructive manner ....

You called people clowns

 

That's constructive where Scott is concerned, just ask him, he'll tell ya.

 

FU Oldguy.

 

 

FU to buddy.

After 11 pages, now the thread gets interesting to read.

 

 

I don't even kow what the thread is about, I'm just stalking Scott.

 

 

Yo... Batman & Robin.. take it outside...

[Pirate]

Please. My comments were made in a constructive manner ....

You called people clowns

 

That's constructive where Scott is concerned, just ask him, he'll tell ya.

 

FU Oldguy.

 

 

FU to buddy.

After 11 pages, now the thread gets interesting to read.

 

 

I don't even kow what the thread is about, I'm just stalking Scott.

 

 

Yo... Batman & Robin.. take it outside...

 

Must be canadian humor

[Dad&Son-migration]

Please. My comments were made in a constructive manner ....

You called people clowns

 

That's constructive where Scott is concerned, just ask him, he'll tell ya.

 

FU Oldguy.

 

 

FU to buddy.

After 11 pages, now the thread gets interesting to read.

 

 

I don't even kow what the thread is about, I'm just stalking Scott.

 

 

Yo... Batman & Robin.. take it outside...

 

Must be canadian humor

 

when a man gives another man the fluffy cloud or flowers graemlin... it's perceived as the dynamic duo in tights doing more then fighting crime.... so don't be a "poop" , "Pirate"

[shadroch]

Some collectors care about pressing,some don't,and the vast majority has no opinion as they aren't even aware of the issue.asking and expecting dealers to address an issue that is a concern for such a small segment of the marketplace is asking alot.

Rather than trying to get sellers to change their selling habits,those who think its a big deal should try and get buyers to care and change their habits.Until,and unless,a much larger segment of the buying population bases their buying decisions on books being pressed,those that are crying fraud will be little more than a cult.

[ciorac]

Let's not forget that we're no longer talking about minor localized pressing of the odd uneven area on a cover, but the complete disassembly of a book in order to press the cover. With CGC's blessing of course. It's only going to get worse.

Basically the collector is saying: You want our money? Then tell us exactly what we're getting for our money.

 

If you don't feel the collector has a right to that info (and it's always the guysselling that feel otherwise) then you'll find yourself on the opposite side of the majority of collectors who are aware of what's going on!

 

Sorry to upset those folk's sense of entitlement.

 

Actually, I'm not sorry in the least. It's good to see the attitudes on display:

 

- It's our hobby. Don't question our practices.

- How dare anyone attempt to open the discussion.

- Since we're tired (or incapable) of debating you intelligently, let's try the personal attack.

- CGC is the one and only authority, and anyone who disagrees with any of their positions should leave the hobby.

- Less information on a book is good. More is bad.

- We have a right to press, disassemble, swap out staples, and worse, without any small time collectors looking over our shoulder. It's our hobby, our income stream, these are my friends, so get lost.

 

It's good to be back! And I want to thank Bill P. ( I now know who you are - I googled ciorac and found your lovely myspace page - I thought no one over 15 had one of those - so I do know you are single, straight, a scorpio and looking for the girl of your dreams! ) for re-igniting the discussions with his brilliant maneuver of resurrecting a long-dead thread and throwing spitballs in an attempt to enlighten and entertain.

 

It backfires every time!

 

 

Brad the child rears his immature head once again.

 

For your information, Bradley, my daughter made that page for me, as she enjoys My Space and thought it would be neat if her Dad had a space that she could link as a friend to her space. Since you seem so intent on disclosure, let me disclose completely: Did you also see what I do for a living? Why don't you post that? I'm sure you could also list my address and social security number as well. Why shouldn't I offer all that up to you and your ilk? Since "full disclosure" is the most important thing in your little under-achieving life, isn't it?

 

You would like everyone here to believe that you are an honest, forthright, concerned and "high brow" member of the comic community. So what do you do to display your integrity and other "gifts"? You search the internet to find out who I am. And the biggest rock you can throw at me is that I have a MySpace account that my daughter, whom I love dearly, created for me. So yes, I am guilty of spoiling my daughter to the degree that I indulge her in this way. I am so sorry, and now that I have fully disclosed I feel so much better........I'm sure you do to.

 

Now why don't you disclose and tell us what really motivates you? Was it that your life didn't turn out the way you thought it would? You didn't achieve all you were supposed to? Why do you feel the need to denigrate others? This behavior is typical of someone who needs to do so, in order to feel better about themselves. Armchair pyschoanalysis I know, but it doesn't take Freud to see your neurosis.

 

It has nothing to do with pressing, that is certain. You said that yourself. But for some reason, you seem to make it the only cause you will champion.

 

Maybe I am blind, but I don't see how a person is defrauded if they buy a book in a universal label with an extremely high grade for a price they are happy with. I just don't. So, the fraud argument doesn't hold water with me, and many others.

 

Regarding my "cronies" reference. Although some of you may deny it, I have often seen another board member make a comment opposed to Brad or one of his "like minded" associates, and then almost as if on cue, they all coming swooping down from "on high" to begin savaging the person to the point where they have been bullied and move on. That sounds like cronies to me.

 

I for one, won't be bullied. And won't be going away. So, if you persist in this behavior I will be there to call you on it. Everytime, so strap it on boychik.

 

And lastly, I repeat, the original comment I made in this thread was about what a hypocrite Brad is to give Doug a "pass" and say his comic ethics shouldn't be called into question, just because he is a thief. And, because Brad used multiple shill accounts to badger and berate members until they were finally banned from his use. You mentioned earlier in this thread that you took your medicine about the shill accounts, no you didn't. Re-read again how you tried to deflect it, as you usually do when the finger points a little too close to home. Yet, Brad thinks Matt is a bad guy for the whole pressing fiasco. That is hypocritical in my view.

 

My stategy didn't backfire at all, I knew you would come on out and show us all, yet again, what an unconscionable muck-raker you truly are. Well done!

 

Oh! I almost forgot another one of your inaccuracies, you said the whole pressing debate was at an all-time low and now it is my fault for bringing it back to the surface. Check your sig line, you drag it with you wherever you go.

 

(And Tim, I AM the happy-go-lucky guy I always was. But everyone gets filled with righteous indignation once in a while)

[ciorac]

Michael Naiman

 

NOD member, now banned.

 

Next

 

Bob... was he banned from NOD, these forums...both... I don't know his association to the industry....actually...never heard of him

 

Worked on Overstreet, worked on Comicbook Marketplace, worked with TB & JE on Via.

 

Nice guy, very well-informed, not welcome here because of his outspoken views on CGC and the current market. Which is a shame, as he's one of those guys who has forgotten more than most of us know.

 

You are correct sir, it is a shame. Mike would be a welcome addition to these boards.