Latest Scandal! Comic Book Dealer Disbarred As Lawyer!!!!

[CentaurMan]

You guys have heard of Joey the Clown, the mob guy recently captured by the FBI here in Chicago? I know one of his neighbors, a middle-aged woman who lived one street over from him and who was pretty well aware of his location throughout the latter months of his hiding. Anyway, she's got a positive opinion of the guy. I asked her how she could be friends with someone who's known for killing other people. She replied "Well, he didn't kill me."

 

She acknowledged that the proper legal outcome was for him to go to jail, but she certainly had made personal decisions about his character and morals outside of a courtroom setting. It happens, and it's understandable. But it doesn't make the person she calls a friend a good person from society's point of view, nor should it.

[october]

But the situations are not concurrent. Can one learn from one's mistakes? That's more the question.

 

You are making a big assumption by calling these incidents "mistakes". These violations weren't in an ethical gray area and they didn't just happen by themselves. I could have told you comingling funds was wrong as a first semester law student. He knew what he was doing and he knew it was wrong and he did it anyway. Those weren't mistakes.

 

I didn't mean "mistakes" in that manner. Yeah, mistakes in judgement. Not actual errors.

 

If you say so. Not sure where that gets you though. You could dismiss every wrong action as a "mistake of judgment" then.

[esquirecomics]

Brad, I don't want to get in a back and forth with you on this b/c there is no need.

 

I just want to say that the involved actions were not that long ago, happened over a significant period of time, and were primarily deliberate and no doubt done with the knowledge that it was wrong. That Doug might be conducting his comic business during the last 2 years, or perhaps always, on the up and up is not the sole factor to consider, IMHO.

[Davenport]

Reading that wordy legalese is a chore, but this one run-on sentence sure jumps out as something more than incompetence or a thoughtless mistake. Or am I reading it wrong?

 

This long sentence, broken down (adding periods and iltalics):

"In his report, the Referee set forth his findings of fact and conclusions of law, and agreed with the Committee that disbarment was appropriate.

 

(The Referee was) citing the intentional conversion of funds of an elderly client to whom settlement proceeds were finally disbursed after almost two years .

 

And only after the client's niece threatened to report respondent to the "bar association;" a pattern of misappropriating escrow funds of 22 other clients; multiple instances of commingling personal funds with client funds; and lack of mitigation."

 

It sure comes across as a little more predatory than bad bookkeeping.

[october]

You guys have heard of Joey the Clown, the mob guy recently captured by the FBI here in Chicago? I know one of his neighbors, a middle-aged woman who lived one street over from him and who was pretty well aware of his location throughout the latter months of his hiding. Anyway, she's got a positive opinion of the guy. I asked her how she could be friends with someone who's known for killing other people. She replied "Well, he didn't kill me."

 

Understandable, but completely indefensible. That's precisely the kind of logic that allows murderers, thieves and scammers to operate. Wrongdoers need to be held accountable for their actions and that begins with people refusing to see others victimized. Besides, who knows when YOU will be the next one on their hit list.

[Red Hook]

Fair enough.

[topofthetotem]

you guys make me laugh. You guys get all bent out of shape when it's a comic book dealer that's "has little or no morality".

if we were "moral" we would sell all our comics and go feed starving children with the money.

don't judge less ye be judged!!

[Red Hook]

You guys have heard of Joey the Clown, the mob guy recently captured by the FBI here in Chicago? I know one of his neighbors, a middle-aged woman who lived one street over from him and who was pretty well aware of his location throughout the latter months of his hiding. Anyway, she's got a positive opinion of the guy. I asked her how she could be friends with someone who's known for killing other people. She replied "Well, he didn't kill me."

 

Understandable, but completely indefensible. That's precisely the kind of logic that allows murderers, thieves and scammers to operate. Wrongdoers need to be held accountable for their actions and that begins with people refusing to see others victimized. Besides, who knows when YOU will be the next one on their hit list.

 

What kind of logic allows you to lump murderers and scammers into the same group?

[october]

You guys have heard of Joey the Clown, the mob guy recently captured by the FBI here in Chicago? I know one of his neighbors, a middle-aged woman who lived one street over from him and who was pretty well aware of his location throughout the latter months of his hiding. Anyway, she's got a positive opinion of the guy. I asked her how she could be friends with someone who's known for killing other people. She replied "Well, he didn't kill me."

 

Understandable, but completely indefensible. That's precisely the kind of logic that allows murderers, thieves and scammers to operate. Wrongdoers need to be held accountable for their actions and that begins with people refusing to see others victimized. Besides, who knows when YOU will be the next one on their hit list.

 

What kind of logic allows you to lump murderers and scammers into the same group?

 

Great misdirection, but in case you are serious I am not comparing them. Did you read my post? I am simply saying that the mechanism that allows either to operate (people's indifference) is the same in both situations. But I didn't really need to explain that....I hope.

[Crackandpresstoan11]

Red,

 

You mentioned that Doug treated your daughter with respect. How do you feel about him helping one of his clients avoid paying child support?

[shadroch]

While I can understand people might continue to buy books off of him,I'm lost as to why anyone would trust him enough to send him boos to sell.

Obviously most people here just don't understand the seriousness of being disbarred.Its not like being indicted,or being convicted of some petty crime.lawyers can go to jail and not be disbarred.When a bunch of lawyers says that someone is of too low a moral statue to hang with them,thats really saying plenty.

[nik]

No doubt what he did was wrong, but I would not put him in the same catagory as a murderer.

 

No one was physically hurt, and I applaud Red for sticking by his friend.

[esquirecomics]

I've been thinking about this a little more. On one level I agree with RedHook, as I've already stated, trust can be regained over time. But it has to be earned.

 

How can Doug start to earn the trust of the comic community back (at least those of us expressing our opinion)?

 

He admits to pressing when asked, but won't disclose it openly.

 

He admits to resubbing books when asked, but won't disclose it openly.

 

To me, as both a lawyer since 1992, and a comic collector/dealer, I see very little difference between knowingly not disclosing modifications to a book and selling to an unspected buyer than "borrowing" client money temporarily only to pay it back when asked.

 

If Doug wants to start regaining my trust, advocate openness.

 

Openly disclose on your website, Doug, which books are pressed or have been upgraded. Be the best of the best of disclosure advocates. Help us persuade CGC to do the same and clean up our hobby.

 

Many lawyers who have been disbarred or even criminals who have served time have gone on to rehabilitate themselves and lead extremely productive and high-profile lives (like John Dean for example, who was both), but they earned it by taking on the tactics that led them down the wrong path.

 

Earn it Doug. I look forward to seeing what path you choose, and I will stand by you in support if you choose the right path.

 

Brad, you are clearly Doug's friend, and a good one. I know where you stand on the above. Use your influence where it will acheive the greatest good.

[october]

No doubt what he did was wrong, but I would not put him in the same catagory as a murderer.

 

No one was physically hurt, and I applaud Red for sticking by his friend.

 

Jesus, Mary and Joseph! When did I compare him to a murderer? Let's keep our eyes on the ball here...

[Timulty]

In my case I am using my judgement based on the possible outcome of a dealer with unethical behavior, albeit non-comic related, business matters. My belief is that if a dealer exhibits a pattern of behavior then said dealer will continue to exhibit that patter of behavior.

 

This actually applies on a more personal level. My brother, who was for the better part of his life, an alcoholic(and yes, some consider this a disease. I do not!). I have seen time and time again a pattern of behavior. This being him getting cleaned up and get his life in order then regress back to full blown alcoholism. He has been "On the Wagon" for the last 3 years. His last fall before that was 5 years. He still continues to "Fall Off". I, myself, give a shot at dieting then get tired of it and over eat. This is a pattern of behavior. I recognize it. I try to rationalize it but it still happens. If someone were to say to me, I bet you can not lose weight and keep it off for the next 5 years, I would not make the bet. My behavior would be reason.

 

In short, it doesn't matter how nice a person is, they act according to their nature. Both personally and in business.

[Drummy]

I appreciate all of the comments thus far. I too like Doug, and our dealings to date have been nothing but professional and trustworthy. To hear news of his troubles doesn't bring me any pleasure.

 

I teach English and we're reading Hamlet right now; just today we went over a passage in which Hamlet says that "one defect" in someone's character will overcome all of one's virtues though they're "as pure as grace...as infinite as man may undergo." "The dram of evil {puts} all the noble substance [in doubt}, to his own scandal."

 

I find this point very true with regard to my (and others') perceptions of Doug. He can be a terrific and kind person (who has vowed to put these types of troubles behind him), but we will all know him, in part, by this "defect". Not to say he -- or any of us -- is comprised only his mistakes, but that's what will be emphasized. It's just human nature, at least according to Billy Shakespeare.

 

I'm not sure how or whether I'll continue any business with Doug. Two days ago I agreed to buy a book from Pedigree, and I will honor my promise to do so. From now on? I'm just not sure yet. These are complicated choices.

 

Yet another bummer in a year full of bummers. Probably the best thing for me is the reminder and opportunity to look at my own decisions (i.e., how I use my money, etc.) in a new light. Am I doing the right thing? Not always. Time to firm up the slippery slope of my moral decision-making, perhaps, something we all can benefit from.

 

Dan

[Rob]

Edited: I'm retarded.

[qualitycomix]

I've been thinking about this a little more. On one level I agree with RedHook, as I've already stated, trust can be regained over time. But it has to be earned.

 

How can Doug start to earn the trust of the comic community back (at least those of us expressing our opinion)?

 

He admits to pressing when asked, but won't disclose it openly.

 

He admits to resubbing books when asked, but won't disclose it openly.

 

To me, as both a lawyer since 1992, and a comic collector/dealer, I see very little difference between knowingly not disclosing modifications to a book and selling to an unspected buyer than "borrowing" client money temporarily only to pay it back when asked.

 

If Doug wants to start regaining my trust, advocate openness.

 

Openly disclose on your website, Doug, which books are pressed or have been upgraded. Be the best of the best of disclosure advocates. Help us persuade CGC to do the same and clean up our hobby.

 

Many lawyers who have been disbarred or even criminals who have served time have gone on to rehabilitate themselves and lead extremely productive and high-profile lives (like John Dean for example, who was both), but they earned it by taking on the tactics that led them down the wrong path.

 

Earn it Doug. I look forward to seeing what path you choose, and I will stand by you in support if you choose the right path.

 

Brad, you are clearly Doug's friend, and a good one. I know where you stand on the above. Use your influence where it will acheive the greatest good.

 

Based on what I'm hearing from some collectors on the boards, I'm leaning towards not bothering with the boards or being on the bleeding edge of standing for something more than business as usual.

 

I will continue to operate my business the same way as I always have. However, I don't think I want to stick my neck out for matters that I used to think that collectors cared about. Whatever. I'm tired. Maybe I'll see this differently in a few days or weeks.

[Red Hook]

Earn it Doug. I look forward to seeing what path you choose, and I will stand by you in support if you choose the right path.

 

Brad, you are clearly Doug's friend, and a good one. I know where you stand on the above. Use your influence where it will acheive the greatest good.

 

That's my modus operandi. Why do you think I'm still here banging on the drum to try to get CGC to tighten up their game? You'll have more influence by using a little compassion and not making people feel like pariahs.

 

(And I don't mean murderers....give em the dang chair! )

[Aman619]

Hey Red.... youre right, from your personal tolerance level, in your lenient stance towards Doug. But not everyone will agree with you. And certainly not those arguing the merits and facts of this latest incident of which Doug admittedly had no defense.

 

For me, as I said earlier, in buying or selling with Doug going forward I will have to be even more cautious. And be alert to any clue that the deal might not work out... But, going into the deal, I will know the possible outcome and will have to take extra precautions.

 

I dont see myself blackballing Doug as a result of this. We all have our dealers we trust completely, others we sort of trust and those refuse to do business with. For many, Doug has now moved to the end of the pack. Thats understandable. To me, he's merely on my "Watch list".

 

I find it hard to stake out a moral high ground over this... just gotta watch my back even more.

 

Aint comics fun???