Bronze X-Men/Pheonix, post movie reaction?

[blowout]

Now that you mention it, yeah that was odd. They could have at least referenced verbaly a search that didn't turn up Jeans body. Maybe it hit the cutting room floor.

Look for further details on the DVD.

[joe_collector]

On another note, are they going to bring Senator Kelly back?

 

I was sure we'd see him reappear in X2, but apparently he's being saved, or that particular plotline is DOA.

[LordRahl]

Umm... Did you actually watch both movies? Senator Kelly WAS in X2 aka Mystique morphing into Kelly. The real Kelly was turned into jello in the first movie, no reason to bring him back. What plotline are you refering to? Mystique taking over as Kelly IS the plotline.

[joe_collector]

Umm... Did you actually watch both movies? Senator Kelly WAS in X2 aka Mystique morphing into Kelly. The real Kelly was turned into jello in the first movie, no reason to bring him back. What plotline are you refering to? Mystique taking over as Kelly IS the plotline.

 

Watch the first movie again, and listen to what Magneto says when he's told of the Senator's death. It's quite obvious (at least at that point in time) that Kelly was mutant, with potentially the ability to change his molecular structure.

 

Although his "emerge from the water" scene gives some clues (as does his "pass through the bars" one), it's tough to tell exactly what power he had, but something along the lines of the Absorbing Man (or specifically Hydro-man) would seem pretty close.

 

Now the X-writers may have tossed that idea out, but the plotline that Kelly was a mutant (transformed by Magneto's machine) was far more obvious than the Phoenix references in X2. I mean, the guy was materializing through bars and reconsituting himself after a swim fer God's sake. And also note that he transformed into WATER on the table, the reverse of what he did emerging from his swim.

[doyle033]

It's quite obvious (at least at that point in time) that Kelly was mutant, with potentially the ability to change his molecular structure.

but one of the crux's of the X1 magneto turning folks into mutants dilemma was that his machine/plan was flawed and that the humans turned mutants would de-evolve into goo after a short time. which is the biggest reason the x people wanted to stop him so bad. he is dead.... goo.

[LordRahl]

No need to see the first one again. Jean said that Kellys molecules were destabilizing because he was turned into a mutant and it wasn't part of his genetics. He died, turning into water on the operating table at the mansion was not his mutant power. And once again, Kelly was in X2 and they are keeping up with that plotline. It's just that it's Mystique as Kelly fighting for mutant rights. I thought it was very evident that they killed off the real Kelly in the first movie and don't see much reason to bring him back(the real one at least).

[LordRahl]

he is dead.... goo.

 

Well put!

[joe_collector]

but one of the crux's of the X1 magneto turning folks into mutants dilemma was that his machine/plan was flawed and that the humans turned mutants would de-evolve into goo after a short time. which is the biggest reason the x people wanted to stop him so bad. he is dead.... goo.

 

But where was this stated? I remember the X-Men bringing that up to Magneto and him stating they were off-base, and asking if "they really saw what they think they saw" (or something like that).

 

I don't remember any other references to goo-izing people, and I thought it was pretty clear the machine worked and the X-Men were misinterpreting Kelly's transformation into WATER.

 

ie. Kelly turned himself liquid to pass through the prison bars, he emerged from his swim in a liquid state, then reconstituted himself, and amazingly turned to water on the examining table.

 

Think about it.

[joe_collector]

No need to see the first one again. Jean said that Kellys molecules were destabilizing because he was turned into a mutant and it wasn't part of his genetics. He died, turning into water on the operating table at the mansion was not his mutant power.

 

I see the nuances of a good story twist elude you.

 

This synopsis fits both conclusions, and if a mutant's power was to destabilize and restabilize his molecules into whatever he wanted, then it would also look like something else if you had a different viewpoint, especially not having seen Kelly's slipping through the bars or turning to water and back again in his swim.

 

I'm not saying that Kelly is coming back, only that this loophole was left waaay open in the event the film makers wanted to.

[ArnoldTBlumberg]

Sorry, buddy, but it was specifically stated, and in as many words as they needed, that the entire point was that Magneto was so deluded that he failed to realize his machine was NOT successful - rather than transform humans into mutants, it eventually killed them. Kelly was quite definitively killed by the process and whatever muddying of the waters you bring up from Magneto's dialogue was just that - he was misguided.

 

There is really no question about this one, it's the basis for the entire third act of the film. Davison got a nice deal coming back in X2 as Mystique, but that's the only way Kelly is coming back from oblivion.

 

We really do reach for things to disagree on around here, huh?

[joe_collector]

Nevermind, it's quite obvious that you're talking that one comment by Jean Grey as Gospel, which is quite amusing, given the sheer number of plot twists I've seen where the POV character is mislead, lies or otherwise makes a huge miscalculation.

 

You view the action from Jean's POV, thinking it totally infallible, and then base everything on that one statement. Other than Kelly no one died from the machine, and the X-Men's viewpoint on the machine was entirely based on Jean's single diagnosis.

 

I view it from Magneto's POV, especially given the paranormal abilities Kelly exhibited, and after reconstituting from liquid to human after the swim, seemed to be none the worse for wear. He then "dies" by turning to water again. Hmmmm

 

This "My name is Arnoldt and I'm right and you're wrong" is highly amusing, since there is no right or wrong in fictitious movies, only what the screenwriters decide to put down on paper for the forthcoming movies.

 

I'm not saying I'm right, but only the most close-minded would state that Kelly could not be brought back as a Hydro-man-like mutant in an forthcoming movie. I see it as a classic "open door" where this "water-like death" is setup IN CASE Kelly is needed in the future.

 

IN CASE, got it? Not definitely, but IN CASE, like an insurance policy.

 

Otherwise, why turn him to water? Why not have him disappear in a puff of smoke, or dematerialize, or just die like a normal human?

[joe_collector]

And just as a PS Arnoldt, I'm not trying to be confrontational, just stating the obvious when it comes to writing fiction:

 

Anything can and will happen.

 

For example, I was pretty certain that Norman Osborne/Green Goblin was dead, but lo and behold, he's alive and well and fighting Spidey again.

 

And Jean Grey sitting in a cocoon, while a Phoenix Entity galavanting around with Cyclops and the X-Men, before sacrificing itself for the good of the Universe.

 

And that Spider-Clone reappearance was a real shocker, and all from one panel showing Spidey not reading his clone/no clone diagnosis.

 

Compared to that, leaving an obvious hole open for a potential (though unlikely) Kelly return is pretty darn tame, don't you think?

[doyle033]

We really do reach for things to disagree on around here, huh?

Okay, i just gotta say that you are waaaaayyy off base there.

[blowout]

I don't really want to pitch into this argument. But for what its worth, my take on X-Men was that Kelly would return at the end of the first movie.

He DID pull himself back to human form from water after falling into the ocean and I actually expected him to pop up at the end of X-Men having reformed himself again after slinking away from the X-Men. I was fully prepared to see him in a piched battle with Magneto (human v mutant analogy) having emerged fron the river (water to solid) onto Liberty Island. It was a surpirse to me that he did not appear again in the first movie.

I would not be surprised to see him appear again in a future sequel, Mystique's portrayal of him in X2 has kept the character in the mind of the viewers

[Illiterati-migration]

I didn't see that he "turned into water" in the first one. I mean, he did at the (his) end, but I thought that Magneto had basically "evolved" him into some manner of squishy fish creature?

 

Besides, where is he going to return from? Is he going to rise, hale and hearty, from the X-Men's mop bucket?

[sckao]

 

This whole thread is fascinating. Apparently, 99% of us saw one thing and assumed that Kelly had died on the table, while the other 1%, Joe_Collector, saw something else.

 

And you know what? As sick and twisted as it may seem, he may be right.

 

I read somewhere that Kelly Hu (Lady Deathstrike) has said that she's signed on for another movie in case they bring her back. I'm not sure how they'll remove the solidified adamantium from her body, but with her healing factor, she'll probably just expel the excess adamantium.

 

 

 

 

[blowout]

I read somewhere that Kelly Hu (Lady Deathstrike) has said that she's signed on for another movie in case they bring her back. I'm not sure how they'll remove the solidified adamantium from her body, but with her healing factor, she'll probably just expel the excess adamantium.

 

This factors in to what JC was saying. In comics books they can do just about anything and make you believe it, they just leave plot thread hanging somewhere and pick it up again later. Same with movies.

I don't think we can discount any possibilities here and anyone can return from apparent death.

After all, the movie going public think that Jean Grey is dead, but we know better, right?

[joe_collector]

I don't really want to pitch into this argument. But for what its worth, my take on X-Men was that Kelly would return at the end of the first movie. He DID pull himself back to human form from water after falling into the ocean and I actually expected him to pop up at the end of X-Men having reformed himself again after slinking away from the X-Men.

 

Thank you for posting this, as the "turns to water" teaser is a classic comic book hook, and leaves the door wide open for his return.

 

One important factor in any fiction is Point of View. The majority on here believe the "quick diagnosis" of Jean Grey, but there is also the alterntive viewpoint of Magneto. He doesn't see himself as a villain, but more of an alternate-Xavier, taking a different route to help mutants.

 

To believe that a righteous man (who, as stated in the movie, helped build Cerebro) would just kill humans with abandon, is a pretty big stretch. After all, Magneto's power alone is sufficient for this task. He wanted to create more mutants, and apparently "Liquid Man" Kelly was a successful test case.

 

Otherwise, if he was just going to kill everyone, why run a test? Magneto wasn't even surprised by his liquid-abilities in his cell, and even looks amused when told by the X-Men that Kelly has "died".

 

Again, this isn't about being right or wrong, only what is possible given the evidence at hand, and I think it's probable that Kelly could return.

[ArnoldTBlumberg]

OK, well I'll just bow out of this one. If you like, you can wait for Kelly to come back alive and in mutant form. I think you'll have a long wait, but you're right. Anything's possible.

 

[joe_collector]

If you like, you can wait for Kelly to come back alive and in mutant form. I think you'll have a long wait

 

I hereby dub thee Super Geek.