Sfilosa starts to cash out.

[The Less Blob]

"i do buy the idea that paying off a mortgage is an antiquated concept. \

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I think the notion that real estate is a good investment that can only appreciate over time will also soon be an antiquated concept."

 

"over time" is the key term there. if you plan on living somewhere long enough to raise your kids, etc., things will bounce back. heck, it even bounced back in houston, which had the worst crash in the country. but that's too long for some people.

 

Paying off a mortgage over 30 years is overrated because you only really start making serious progress in years 21-30. If most people move every 10 or so years (which is roughly long enough to have caught up and then a bit more after the last crash), they hardly put a dent in their principal anyway.

 

Personally, I don't think a fixed rate interest only 15-30 year mortgage would be a bad thing if you're buying with at least 20% down.

[tth2]

Steve Borock told me years ago that the pedigree status of a book would have nothing to do with future pricing only the CGC grade. ( In reference to the Pacific Coasts books) so I assumed he was speaking of SA pedigrees.

Interesting comment, Tom. When CGC was starting, I too thought that might be the case, particularly as some pedigrees got slabbed quickly and came out at surprisingly low grades, causing collectors to realize that "X" pedigree didn't always translate into NM/M (or even NM).

 

However, it seemed like the momentum swung back to pedigrees quickly as it became clear that some pedigrees genuinely were superior in most cases to non-pedigree books. Also, that obsessive collector instinct drove many people to try to assemble runs from certain pedigrees, regardless of grade.

[tth2]

My view has alot more to do with the large gulf that exists between 9.0 and 9.4+ values. At some point i believe that collectors will realize that this is an artificial investor market of sorts essentially brought on by CGC grading, and that owning a 9.0 copy is just about as good as most collector's REALLY want. Let's not even TALK abouy VF books going for 1/2 guide or less on ebay.

Sorry, but I've been hearing this for the 20+ years that I've been into collecting HG books. In that time, the gulf between the best copies and everything else has continued to grow. There is always an underlying assumption in these kinds of statements that any day now, ultra-HG collectors will come to their senses and realize that owning a VF/NM copy is just fine, because the differences between a VF/NM copy and a NM+ copy just isn't worth the price differential.

 

It just doesn't work that way. Because of the vagaries of the human psyche, there will ALWAYS be collectors who want the best and are willing to pay for it. The fact that the vast majority of collectors are perfectly happy with lesser copies is irrelevant. The demand for the 1 or 2 "best" copies will almost always exceed supply. This was true when comics were hardly worth anything, it's obviously still true today and unless human psychology changes, it will continue to be true in the future. I'm not saying prices will stay high, just that the gap between the best and everything else will always be there, no matter how ephemeral the difference.

[tth2]

What are we collecting here? Numbers or comic books?

Uh, how about both? You seem to be completely overlooking the thrill of the hunt as a part of collecting. Suppose there are collectors out there who have enough money to acquire complete runs of just about any comic they want, if grade is irrelevant? Aren't they allowed to add additional requirements to their quest to make it more challenging? Or how about other collectors who approach it from a purely aesthetic point of view and prefer to own perfect, pristine books over trashed, dog-eared copies? Is that not permitted?

 

the point of a comic book is to read and enjoy it. If you have to worry that reading your book will drop it .2 of a grade, I think you are missing the point of the hobby. Better off playing the stock market, unless you are a dealer.

Ah, of course, now the "purist" collector card is played. So I guess the guys buying those $10+ million Ming vases are expected to use them to hold flowers? And why is that darned Constitution sitting in a sealed environment, it should be out there available for anyone to unscroll and read.

 

Back to comics, perhaps the collector has a reader copy and a "collection" copy? Perhaps the collector read his original copy, and now wants to upgrade to a more perfect copy for the aesthetic appeal or the compulsive desire to own the best? Your statement implies that HG collectors don't actually enjoy or need to read the books, and I would beg to differ. If you talked to many of the biggest HG collectors, you would find them to be extremely knowledgeable about the stories in the books they own.

[tth2]

yeah, my cousin is a mortgage broker and when i told him I wanted a 30 year mortgage fixed at 5.75% and that I was planning on putting 50% down on my home he thought I was nuts.

30 year mortgage? Check. 5.75% fixed? Check! Putting 50% down? Why? You're getting virtually free money, why would you not maximize the amount that you could borrow at that very low rate? There will undoubtedly be periods of time in the next 30 years that 5.75% will be LOWER than what you'll be able to get from just a money market.

[tth2]

Also regarding the 9.0 is almost as nice as 9.4 so why is a 9.4 worth three to four times as much issue, the answer is because.......

 

it's that way in almost every field.

 

Take a diamond. Is a 1 carat diamond worth twice as much as 1/2 carat? No, it worth a lot more than 2 times, because it is clearly more rare. And while we can argue that comic book grading is subjective, isn't gems cuts, clarity, color, etc. also subjective. Yes the weight (i.e. carat) can be measured perfectly but nothing else can (i.e. there is some subjectivity).

 

So the point is that it's moot to say that a 9.4 should only sell for a little more than a 9.2 or 9.0 because the difference is very small. If a buyer is looking to put together a 9.4 run, a 9.2 WILL NOT DO. Does that make logical sense, maybe not, but it's clearly not only an issue with comic books.

Well put!

[Silver Surfer]

yeah, my cousin is a mortgage broker and when i told him I wanted a 30 year mortgage fixed at 5.75% and that I was planning on putting 50% down on my home he thought I was nuts. "get an interest only mortgage, put 5-10% down, 30 year mortgages are for people who grew up in the Depression, nobody ever pays off their mortgage, why would you want to have that much equity in your property????"

 

That's because his commission is higher on a line of credit than a fixed product and the bigger the mortgage the bigger the pay day. Its true but seriously, in Canada if you put down a minimum of 25% you don't incur mortgage default insurance which is required where the equity/down payment is less than 25%. If the same holds true in the States, which I suspect it does, then why pay those premiums. A 5% down can cost you 2%-2.75% on the whole mortgage amount in Canada so why throw that money away? I don't dislike the line of credit product especially if your getting income from a basement suite to help carry a portion of your mortgage but it all depends on your income stream, if your wages are essentially fixed, then go with a fixed product. If your earn commissions and have the opportunity to make large chunks, go with the line and plunk the cash down on the principal when you can.

[jimm94]

What are we collecting here? Numbers or comic books?

Uh, how about both? You seem to be completely overlooking the thrill of the hunt as a part of collecting. Suppose there are collectors out there who have enough money to acquire complete runs of just about any comic they want, if grade is irrelevant? Aren't they allowed to add additional requirements to their quest to make it more challenging? Or how about other collectors who approach it from a purely aesthetic point of view and prefer to own perfect, pristine books over trashed, dog-eared copies? Is that not permitted?

 

the point of a comic book is to read and enjoy it. If you have to worry that reading your book will drop it .2 of a grade, I think you are missing the point of the hobby. Better off playing the stock market, unless you are a dealer.

Ah, of course, now the "purist" collector card is played. So I guess the guys buying those $10+ million Ming vases are expected to use them to hold flowers? And why is that darned Constitution sitting in a sealed environment, it should be out there available for anyone to unscroll and read.

 

Back to comics, perhaps the collector has a reader copy and a "collection" copy? Perhaps the collector read his original copy, and now wants to upgrade to a more perfect copy for the aesthetic appeal or the compulsive desire to own the best? Your statement implies that HG collectors don't actually enjoy or need to read the books, and I would beg to differ. If you talked to many of the biggest HG collectors, you would find them to be extremely knowledgeable about the stories in the books they own.

 

 

Go get 'em, tiger!

[jimm94]

I'm not a high grade collector, but there have been times when I've chosen a lower grade book because the structural differences were so minimal, and the undercopy had better eye appeal due to superior QP (quality of production).

[tth2]

I'm not a high grade collector, but there have been times when I've chosen a lower grade book because the structural differences were so minimal, and the undercopy had better eye appeal due to superior QP (quality of production).

Sure, I'm not saying that's not a perfectly valid choice. And probably a lot smarter choice! I just get tired of the condescending attitude of some non-HG collectors.

[jimm94]

I'm not a high grade collector, but there have been times when I've chosen a lower grade book because the structural differences were so minimal, and the undercopy had better eye appeal due to superior QP (quality of production).

Sure, I'm not saying that's not a perfectly valid choice. And probably a lot smarter choice! I just get tired of the condescending attitude of some non-HG collectors.

 

I agree.

[tth2]

in Canada if you put down a minimum of 25% you don't incur mortgage default insurance which is required where the equity/down payment is less than 25%. If the same holds true in the States, which I suspect it does, then why pay those premiums.

Same applies in the US, but the cut-off is 20%. In Hong Kong, it's 30%.

[october]

I just get tired of the condescending attitude of some non-HG collectors.

 

Me too! What a pack of jagoffs!

[VintageComics]

I just get tired of the condescending attitude of some non-HG collectors.

 

Me too! What a pack of jagoffs!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

me too.

[tth2]

I just get tired of the condescending attitude of some non-HG collectors.

 

Me too! What a pack of jagoffs!

[october]

I just get tired of the condescending attitude of some non-HG collectors.

 

Me too! What a pack of jagoffs!

[tth2]

I just get tired of the condescending attitude of some non-HG collectors.

 

Me too! What a pack of jagoffs!

Oh, sorry, you're not in the pack?

[october]

I just get tired of the condescending attitude of some non-HG collectors.

 

Me too! What a pack of jagoffs!

Oh, sorry, you're not in the pack?

[lou_fine]

Steve Borock told me years ago that the pedigree status of a book would have nothing to do with future pricing only the CGC grade. ( In reference to the Pacific Coasts books) so I assumed he was speaking of SA pedigrees.

Interesting comment, Tom. When CGC was starting, I too thought that might be the case, particularly as some pedigrees got slabbed quickly and came out at surprisingly low grades, causing collectors to realize that "X" pedigree didn't always translate into NM/M (or even NM).

 

However, it seemed like the momentum swung back to pedigrees quickly as it became clear that some pedigrees genuinely were superior in most cases to non-pedigree books. Also, that obsessive collector instinct drove many people to try to assemble runs from certain pedigrees, regardless of grade.

 

Tim;

 

Quite a few of the long time collectors also felt this way at the beginning and we always laughingly referred to it as the CGC pedigree. Personally, I always felt that it would be a combination of the two in the end.

 

Although I have always tried to be a HG collector when it comes to books I want, I know that I will always be willing to pay more of a premium for a pedigree copy in the same grade. I also believe some of the recent fiascos with respect to CGC grading may have reduce the importance of the CGC pedigree, with the pendulum swinging back towards the true named pedigrees.

 

Actually, this silliness works both ways since I can still remember back in the mid 90's when dealers were offering multiples to guide for GA pedigree books basically sight unseen. I remember being offered $10K for a Denver Timely that was guiding for only $2K at the time, with the rationale being that the dealers already had buyers lined up for the book at $15K. Even more silly when they didn't retract their offers when I told them the book was not in NM condition. This didn't even fazed them since they claimed the bottom-line was the status of the pedigree.

 

Oh, don't we missed those silly irrational exhuberence times around the Diamond opening when GA was at its peak, as Silver was plateauing and Moderns were taking a big hit in the mid-90's. Some really wild and crazy days back then with the big GA catch-up.

[tth2]

I also believe some of the recent fiascos with respect to CGC grading may have reduce the importance of the CGC pedigree, with the pendulum swinging back towards the true named pedigrees.

I don't know if that follows, Lou. Haven't you noticed that many of the GA press and resub books were Church copies, and many of the SA press and resub books were Pacific Coast copies? As Linmoth has rightly pointed out, the structural soundness of these pedigrees actually lends itself to pressing, because the edges and corners are often so sharp and clean so all that has to be "fixed" are those pesky non-color breaking creases.

 

Actually, this silliness works both ways since I can still remember back in the mid 90's when dealers were offering multiples to guide for GA pedigree books basically sight unseen. I remember being offered $10K for a Denver Timely that was guiding for only $2K at the time, with the rationale being that the dealers already had buyers lined up for the book at $15K. Even more silly when they didn't retract their offers when I told them the book was not in NM condition. This didn't even fazed them since they claimed the bottom-line was the status of the pedigree.

That was one of the things I hated most about the pre-CGC era. Major pedigrees often didn't even have a grade listed in the catalog, just the pedigree, because you were supposed to assume the books were NM/M. Of course, often they were not. I lost my rose colored glasses when I purchased my first pedigree, a raw White Mountain Atom 5 (no grade, just the pedigree designation), and was confounded at receiving a VF book. I should have returned it, but inertia got the better of me (as well as nagging doubt that perhaps I was grading too harshly, after all the big time dealer I bought it from couldn't have misgraded it that badly, could he? ). When I slabbed it, CGC agreed with me, giving it a 8.0. I subsequently sold it at quite a loss.