Sfilosa starts to cash out.

[october]

And on these boards, I would say the ratio of those that repeatedly say "Buying a 9.4/9.6/9.8 is not worth the price difference compared to a 9.0/9.2/9.4" to those that vocally thumb their noses at lower grades books is, oh, twenty to one or so.

So true, Doc. Actually, I would say it's more like a thousand to one. As I said in my response to Mattbird, I genuinely can't recall people vocally thumbing their noses at lower grade books, as you put it.

 

Even I would have to agree with that statement. As far as I know, it's a complete fiction. The disdain seems to go the other way about 99.9% of the time.

[tth2]

And on these boards, I would say the ratio of those that repeatedly say "Buying a 9.4/9.6/9.8 is not worth the price difference compared to a 9.0/9.2/9.4" to those that vocally thumb their noses at lower grades books is, oh, twenty to one or so.

So true, Doc. Actually, I would say it's more like a thousand to one. As I said in my response to Mattbird, I genuinely can't recall people vocally thumbing their noses at lower grade books, as you put it.

 

Even I would have to agree with that statement. As far as I know, it's a complete fiction. The disdain seems to go the other way about 99.9% of the time.

I will henceforth no longer call you "know nothing newbie"!

[october]

And on these boards, I would say the ratio of those that repeatedly say "Buying a 9.4/9.6/9.8 is not worth the price difference compared to a 9.0/9.2/9.4" to those that vocally thumb their noses at lower grades books is, oh, twenty to one or so.

So true, Doc. Actually, I would say it's more like a thousand to one. As I said in my response to Mattbird, I genuinely can't recall people vocally thumbing their noses at lower grade books, as you put it.

 

Even I would have to agree with that statement. As far as I know, it's a complete fiction. The disdain seems to go the other way about 99.9% of the time.

I will henceforth no longer call you "know nothing newbie"!

It only took 1.5 years and 8,000 posts!

[whomerjay]

so when tth2 writes:

What are we collecting here? Numbers or comic books?

Uh, how about both? You seem to be completely overlooking the thrill of the hunt as a part of collecting.

 

Is there really a 'thrill to the hunt' of looking for a collection of these 9.4/9.2 books, when it seems to be simply a matter of willingness to spend the money? Again, I understand the desire to own ulta perfect, best known copies. But picking a CGC number to collect, which I see very often, seems arbitrary to me- even moreso given the methods by which these books achieve the grade.

Ah, but the point is when you start getting up to that grade of book, supply declines significantly, and it's not just about having money. Perhaps picking an a minimum CGC level is arbitrary, but that's the point, to introduce an artificial hurdle to make the challenge harder. All the money in the world won't help if you can't track a book down (just to be clear, I'm talking primarily about early SA and GA books). So a lot of the work (and fun) goes into networking and researching to try to figure out where the books are and to put yourself in the right place at the right time if any of those books should ever come on the market. Hence the thrill of the hunt.

 

How many of the HG slab collectors had similar buying habits pre-CGC? Where very slight differences in grade meant you would spend 2x the money on one book versus another?

The desire by collectors to upgrade based on minute differences was in existence well before CGC, as has been the willingness to pay higher prices for those differences. Look at some of the old PCE or Marnin Rosenberg ads that have been posted here, there were differences in prices depending on whether a book was NM-, NM, NM+ and NM/M. A lot of the collectors who flocked to buy the PC collection already had NM books in their collections (particularly the Marvel collectors), but they went nuts over the ability/opportunity to upgrade their NMs to NM+ or NM/M.

 

Was the difference 2X? No, but the fact that higher multiples are paid post-CGC for small differences in grade than pre-CGC represents a lot of different factors that weren't present in the raw world, such as theoretically objective grading, general market acceptance of that objective grading, greater liquidity because of the market acceptance, and the grade (and book) theoretically being "locked" in via the slabbing process.

 

I just get tired of the condescending attitude of some non-HG collectors.

 

The door truly swings both ways here. Almost by definition, the HG collector is saying that lesser copies are simply not worthy of collecting. Any time a high grade / low grade thread comes up, there are always multiple comments to the effect of "I would not want to own that".

I'm truly surprised to read this. I don't know if you're talking about statements made in the BA, Copper or Modern forums, which I don't usually go into, but I honestly can't recall any HG collector in the General, GA or SA forums denigrating someone's lower grade book or criticizing people for collecting lower grade books. And just in case you're talking about my comments about spitting on 9.2s, please realize it was a joke, usually between me and FFB.

 

I really doubt there are many snobbish HG GA collectors- there are just not enough HG GA to go around and GA collectors must learn to like lower grade books. For some titles (like Catman) ANY grade is acceptable for me. For some titles, like Planet comics, I'm striving for a HG (7.5 minimum, preferably slabbed) run, but am ALSO trying to collect every issue in lowgrade so I can read them.

 

I have recently gone through what I've bought in GA (started 5 years ago) and found that most of what I've bought is in the VG/F to F range, and I'm quite happy with the books. I've scrutinized books well before buying and have tried to maintain a decent standard for eye appeal, and I tend to make "value" buys. That I have so many VG- F books tells me that this is what is available and this is what my collection will continue to be as it grows. Would I like everything 8.0 or higher? Sure, but that is just unrealistic and if I want to acquire books at a reasonable rate I'd better be happy with mid grade.

[SuperBird]

I don't look at comics looking to see how perfect they are. I look at them to appreciate the art and other qualities you mention.

 

Absolutely, and based on your want list, it's a good thing you're not a HG collector!

 

Yup. All the money in the world and a lifetime to search and it would still be impossible to complete my run in high grade! I doubt it could be done in 7.5, actually.

[SuperBird]

the point is when you start getting up to that grade of book, supply declines significantly, and it's not just about having money. Perhaps picking an a minimum CGC level is arbitrary, but that's the point, to introduce an artificial hurdle to make the challenge harder. All the money in the world won't help if you can't track a book down (just to be clear, I'm talking primarily about early SA and GA books). So a lot of the work (and fun) goes into networking and researching to try to figure out where the books are and to put yourself in the right place at the right time if any of those books should ever come on the market. Hence the thrill of the hunt.

 

I'm admit I have a Golden Age point of view, here, but here's a quick glance at random SA/GA unrestored issues in the census-

 

Amazing Spider Man 14 - 26 copies in 9.4 and above

 

Action Comics 14 - 7 copies TOTAL

 

So, as a GA collector, when I read things like such-and-such an issue is hard to find in HG, I tend to think that they really are not that hard to find. Posts by sfilosa and others back this up as he'd stated he was willing to let these books go, being certain he could pick them up again in the future. This is NOT to say I look down upon SA collectors, as I collect in SA as well. I just would not label even high grade as particularly rare. I'm certain there are specific issues that are, just not on the whole.

 

If you want to talk 9.8, that would be different, and I 100% understand the money spent on those books.

[SuperBird]

And on these boards, I would say the ratio of those that repeatedly say "Buying a 9.4/9.6/9.8 is not worth the price difference compared to a 9.0/9.2/9.4" to those that vocally thumb their noses at lower grades books is, oh, twenty to one or so.

So true, Doc. Actually, I would say it's more like a thousand to one. As I said in my response to Mattbird, I genuinely can't recall people vocally thumbing their noses at lower grade books, as you put it.

 

Even I would have to agree with that statement. As far as I know, it's a complete fiction. The disdain seems to go the other way about 99.9% of the time.

 

What is coming across to you as 'thumbing my nose' is actually simply a lack of understanding on my part, given the vaguaries of the CGC grading system, where what separates a 9.2 from a 9.4 can be very arbitrary.

[drbanner]

I don't look at comics looking to see how perfect they are. I look at them to appreciate the art and other qualities you mention.

 

Absolutely, and based on your want list, it's a good thing you're not a HG collector!

 

Yup. All the money in the world and a lifetime to search and it would still be impossible to complete my run in high grade! I doubt it could be done in 7.5, actually.

 

I collect a bit of GA, SA, and BA, and many of my favorite books are restored and/or low-grade GA books (covers detached, pieces missing, etc.,.), so I understand where you're coming from. For most BA books however, high grade copies are both relatively available, and relatively affordable, so that's what I go after there!

[SuperBird]

yeah, for BA and newer, no need to go lower than vf/nm or so. Unless it's a grail book that you just don't want to spend the $ on.

[tth2]

I'm admit I have a Golden Age point of view, here, but here's a quick glance at random SA/GA unrestored issues in the census-

 

Amazing Spider Man 14 - 26 copies in 9.4 and above

 

Action Comics 14 - 7 copies TOTAL

 

So, as a GA collector, when I read things like such-and-such an issue is hard to find in HG, I tend to think that they really are not that hard to find. Posts by sfilosa and others back this up as he'd stated he was willing to let these books go, being certain he could pick them up again in the future. This is NOT to say I look down upon SA collectors, as I collect in SA as well. I just would not label even high grade as particularly rare. I'm certain there are specific issues that are, just not on the whole.

 

If you want to talk 9.8, that would be different, and I 100% understand the money spent on those books.

Well, ASM is not a good example because the title started relatively late, it's always been the most popular Marvel title, therefore the most hoarded, and therefore by far the easiest title to accumulate in high grade. Better examples might be Marvels pre-1964, in particular Fantastic Four 1-20, Hulk 1-6, Journey into Mystery in the 80s, Tales of Suspense in the 40s, Strange Tales in the 100s, etc.

 

And don't even get me started on pre-1964 SA DCs, which are exponentially more difficult to find in HG than Marvels. In fact, I would posit that finding copies of DCs from 1956-1961 (and for all of the 1950s for that matter) in 9.4 and above is often harder than finding GA DCs in 9.4 and above.

[Aman619]

strange... but true! thumbs up

[tth2]

thumbs up

There's a graemlin for that.

[adamstrange]

I'm admit I have a Golden Age point of view, here, but here's a quick glance at random SA/GA unrestored issues in the census-

 

Amazing Spider Man 14 - 26 copies in 9.4 and above

 

Action Comics 14 - 7 copies TOTAL

 

So, as a GA collector, when I read things like such-and-such an issue is hard to find in HG, I tend to think that they really are not that hard to find. Posts by sfilosa and others back this up as he'd stated he was willing to let these books go, being certain he could pick them up again in the future. This is NOT to say I look down upon SA collectors, as I collect in SA as well. I just would not label even high grade as particularly rare. I'm certain there are specific issues that are, just not on the whole.

 

If you want to talk 9.8, that would be different, and I 100% understand the money spent on those books.

Well, ASM is not a good example because the title started relatively late, it's always been the most popular Marvel title, therefore the most hoarded, and therefore by far the easiest title to accumulate in high grade. Better examples might be Marvels pre-1964, in particular Fantastic Four 1-20, Hulk 1-6, Journey into Mystery in the 80s, Tales of Suspense in the 40s, Strange Tales in the 100s, etc.

 

And don't even get me started on pre-1964 SA DCs, which are exponentially more difficult to find in HG than Marvels. In fact, I would posit that finding copies of DCs from 1956-1961 (and for all of the 1950s for that matter) in 9.4 and above is often harder than finding GA DCs in 9.4 and above.

 

This is born out so far by the CGC census, which is still a woefully incomplete picture of the total population of books. And we've discussed the probable scarcity of DCs relative to Marvels on more than one occasion so I'll just say Ooops! I mean thumps up.

[Aman619]

thumbs up

There's a graemlin for that.

 

I use quick reply 99% of the time... so I have to learn the graemlins by typing them. SOme I know otheres I guess at!

[Aman619]

[Aman619]

that was a test. see. Im learning!

[DKB]

Back on topic, doesn't look like the Daredevils were met with much enthusiasm. I'm sure the ToSs will do well though.

[FFB]

I just get tired of the condescending attitude of some non-HG collectors.

 

The door truly swings both ways here. Almost by definition, the HG collector is saying that lesser copies are simply not worthy of collecting. Any time a high grade / low grade thread comes up, there are always multiple comments to the effect of "I would not want to own that".

I'm truly surprised to read this. I don't know if you're talking about statements made in the BA, Copper or Modern forums, which I don't usually go into, but I honestly can't recall any HG collector in the General, GA or SA forums denigrating someone's lower grade book or criticizing people for collecting lower grade books. And just in case you're talking about my comments about spitting on 9.2s, please realize it was a joke, usually between me and FFB.

 

I cannot remember the last time I saw a high grade collector insult or pooh-pooh someone on these forums just because that person collects reader copies.

 

If I had a nickel for every comment I've seen on these boards by collectors of reader copies who bash high grade collectors by calling them insufficiently_thoughtful_persons or opining about how these people should spend their money, I could buy the Church copy of Action #1.

 

Of course, Stephen Fishler of Metropolis said that the Church copy of Action Comics #1 is a mere 9.2, so I'd probably have to spit on it or burn it as soon as it became part of my collection.

 

[sfilosa]

Back on topic, doesn't look like the Daredevils were met with much enthusiasm. I'm sure the ToSs will do well though.

 

 

The most recent DD's were not mine. My DD's were listed several weeks ago. I did well on a lot of the later issues #20 up and sold a few early ones. Not all of mine are 9.4's unfortunately.

 

But the TOS's going up now are mine, as were the TTA's (40% of the total dollar worth sold in one week so not bad).

[DKB]

Back on topic, doesn't look like the Daredevils were met with much enthusiasm. I'm sure the ToSs will do well though.

 

 

The most recent DD's were not mine. My DD's were listed several weeks ago. I did well on a lot of the later issues #20 up and sold a few early ones. Not all of mine are 9.4's unfortunately.

 

But the TOS's going up now are mine, as were the TTA's (40% of the total dollar worth sold in one week so not bad).

 

If the Curator 48 was yours...big thanks for selling it!