I'm confused. I thought the Golden Age Human Torch and the FF one..

[Ze-man]

 

Why reinvent a character from 1939?

 

New audience.

 

Cap, Subby etc.. they all got the SA treatment. But with the F.F. they gave ol hothead a much different story befitting the group's origin.

 

 

Or did ST 101 predate that.. I get confused sometimes myself bro.

 

 

 

Ze-

[Shield]

I take back my comments. I assumed MLJs was what Shield was into now, but that he had a broader comic background and would know about the original Human Torch, particularly because of his interest in GA.

 

I never owned any early MM's with the Torch's origins (only have some in the 30's) and I've never picked up any modern MM reprints, nor have I ever read FF. I'm not sure this by default makes my comics background NOT broad, it just means:

 

1. I can't affored early MM's, and

2. I haven't bought a new comic since the late 1980's.

 

So now I have a narrow comic book depth AND I'm a insufficiently_thoughtful_person? Where's FFB's "let's all get along thread"?

I'm sorry I didn't know this.

[Shield]

 

Why reinvent a character from 1939?

 

New audience.

 

Cap, Subby etc.. they all got the SA treatment. But with the F.F. they gave ol hothead a much different story befitting the group's origin.

 

 

 

Ze-

 

Thank you, that makes perfect sense. I am truly silver/bronze/modern/copper retarded. Don't all of you pile on, but..

 

You mean the silver age Captain America isn't the same person either?

 

(serious question, ducks out of everyone yelling)...

[Ze-man]

You should be thrilled this is all new to you. There is so much for you to yet discover.

The Captains history is pretty good, I dont wanna ruin it for ya.

 

Ze-

[Shield]

You should be thrilled this is all new to you. There is so much for you to yet discover.

The Captains history is pretty good, I dont wanna ruin it for ya.

 

Ze-

 

Hmm. You see, Mighty Crusaders in the 60's were also "revamped" incarnations of the 1940's MLJ superhero lines. I thought having a guy with the same name, same outfit, same powers YET being the son or grandson of the original was pure hogwash. Especially when you factor in the human element of being broke, no car, etc. It just didn't do it for me. Now you say wait, the Captain America/Flash/Torch stuff is all much better. I'm quite sure it is! However, to me it's all just a marketing ploy.

 

So, let me get this straight. Superman now is the original Superman, right? But didn't he "die" in the 90's? Keep in mind I don't read/buy modern comics. Batman is still the same Batman, right? Obviously Bucky from Captain America died, but the Flash, Torch and Captain America are all "new" versions of the old characters (similiar powers, outfits, exact same name, but different people?)

 

How can Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Archie and everyone else still be the same characters from the 1930's/40's yet we have "new" Torch, Cap, and Flash?

 

Maybe I live too much in the 1940's world, but there has to be come continuity problems here somewhere.

 

Is the Submariner from 1968 the same dude I know and love from the 40's? If he isn't, I suppose there's some story that explains how yet ANOTHER exact mirrored Marvel character appears yet again within 20 years of the others dying off? Is this just a Marvel thing, or what?

 

Same paragraph above, but replace "Submariner" with "Vision" or "Spectre". Is anybody original continuity wise?

 

See what happens when you don't own/read silver?

 

And does Blackhawk still exist? What about Captain Marvel - isn't he now owned by DC? If so, is he still in print? If he's still printed, is he yet another character that's not the same one from the 40's/50's?

 

Lots of questions. Please be patient and gentle with me. I'm very skeptical of all these new "versions" of 40's characters, but I do have an open mind....

[october]

Not sure it's "all just a marketing ploy". How many times can you go back to the well and re-hash the same stories month after month? How many times can the same old character do the same old things against the same old villains? Keep in mind books like Batman have been coming out for 70 years. SOMETHING had to give.

[Shield]

I take back my comments. I assumed MLJs was what Shield was into now, but that he had a broader comic background and would know about the original Human Torch, particularly because of his interest in GA.

 

You guys are just being elitists. Seriously, not everyone reads "modern" marvel!

 

You're telling me, as someone with a fair amount of intellect BUT just doesn't read Marvels past 1950 is TOTALLY crazy for thinking that these two characters LOOK IDENTICAL? See scan below.

 

NOTE: The above is from 1962, the below from 1954. A paltry 8 years, and I'm supposed to know the difference? Geesh, tough crowd!

 

 

[Shield]

Not sure it's "all just a marketing ploy". How many times can you go back to the well and re-hash the same stories month after month? How many times can the same old character do the same old things against the same old villains? Keep in mind books like Batman have been coming out for 70 years. SOMETHING had to give.

 

How DARE you say that to me! I've been waiting on Archie Andrews to finally graduate high school since I started reading comics in 1978!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Shield]

Hmmm. In doing some quick research, who's the that drew the Torch's hand backwards here? Something vewy vewy srewwy here...(Elmer Fudd voice)

 

[tth2]

I take back my comments. I assumed MLJs was what Shield was into now, but that he had a broader comic background and would know about the original Human Torch, particularly because of his interest in GA.

 

I never owned any early MM's with the Torch's origins (only have some in the 30's) and I've never picked up any modern MM reprints, nor have I ever read FF. I'm not sure this by default makes my comics background NOT broad, it just means:

 

1. I can't affored early MM's, and

2. I haven't bought a new comic since the late 1980's.

 

So now I have a narrow comic book depth AND I'm a insufficiently_thoughtful_person? Where's FFB's "let's all get along thread"?

I'm sorry I didn't know this.

Sorry, as I said, I thought you DID know all this stuff and that you were just being sarcastic when you reproduced the quote from Harley's auction. I mean come on, with all that Chuck Norris stuff you've been posting all over the place, how could I have thought you were being serious?

 

Believe it or not, my comment about your not being a insufficiently_thoughtful_person was not supposed to be critical of you. Just the opposite, I was surprised that people would believe straight off that you weren't familiar with some fundamental aspects of the Marvel universe.

 

I see I was wrong, so I withdraw my comments. No aspersions should be cast upon you (or any other comic collector) for not knowing about the different Human Torches.

 

[shadroch]

Shield,

If you never read SA or BA superheroes,how did you ever get into Golden Age books?

i don't think I've met anyone in my thirtyplus years of collecting that jumped from bronze age Archies to GA super-heroes without at least a mild stopover in erly Marvels or DCs?

Should be an interesting tale.

[Aces]

...were the same character? Are they not?

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Human-Torch...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

"The original Human Torch is a fictional character who was created in 1938 by Carl Burgos for Timely Comics’ first comic book, titled Marvel Comics. Not to be confuse with the modern day torch (a member of the Fantastic Four) , this Human Torch was an android, a mechanical being created by Professor Phineas T. Horton in hopes of creating a more perfect human."

 

I'm so confused.

 

When I talked to the modern day Torch last he said he hates how people confuse him with the one from World War two.

 

 

.........

 

Besides, I have FF annual 4 up on eBay now when the GA torch shows up and they both meet.

*Shameless Comercial Plug*

[Aces]

Geesh guys, it was a sincere question. The golden age and silver age characters sure look the same to me, and I've never owned or read Fantastic four. The text I copied and pasted was from the link to the auction I provided. Now I do know that Flash's silver age character was not the same as the golden age, especially due to the different costumes. But to a non-Marvel person, when "flaming" the silver age Torch looks just like the golden age.

 

Why reinvent a character from 1939?

 

Holy sh...!

 

I thought you were fooling.

 

It's hard to believe an old time collector who hasn't read FF 1 or a reprint is posting here. All four of the FF got their powers in FF 1 after being exposed to cosmic rays during a test space flight.

[Silver Surfer]

[Silver Surfer]

Can someone tell me how many members are in the Fantastic Four?

[Aces]

Can someone tell me how many members are in the Fantastic Four?

 

They started at four.

Went to five with Crystal (issues in the 70s) and almost at the same time went to six when Franklin was born. Then back to five when Crystal had to leave (issue 99 started a arc which lead to, a few issues later, sickness from pollution mading her return to the Hidden Land).

 

Then Sue and Franklin left making it three, but Medusa joined soon after getting them back up to four.

 

Sue and Franklin returned (issue 149) and Medusa left and we are back to five.

 

Powerman replaced the Thing for a bit. Still five.

The Impossible man show up for awhile after the Thing returned and Powerman left (issue 176). That's six.

 

They all broke up in issue 190.

Down to zero.

 

They returned to fight Doc Doom climaxing in issue 200.

The five (Ben, Sue, Reed, Johnny, Franklin) are back.

 

Don't even get me going on that Herbie stuff.

 

Some copper/modern guys can fill in the rest.

[AussieRuss]

Shield,

If you never read SA or BA superheroes,how did you ever get into Golden Age books?

i don't think I've met anyone in my thirtyplus years of collecting that jumped from bronze age Archies to GA super-heroes without at least a mild stopover in erly Marvels or DCs?

Should be an interesting tale.

 

Hi Shad.

 

This conversation has reminded me of my first 2 CGC comic purchases.

 

First CGC book was a modern age X-files #1 1994

 

Second CGC book Blackhawk #9 (#1) 1944

 

I have only started to discover marvel superheroes over the last 1-2 years.

 

Regards,

Russ...

[tth2]

Geesh guys, it was a sincere question. The golden age and silver age characters sure look the same to me, and I've never owned or read Fantastic four. The text I copied and pasted was from the link to the auction I provided. Now I do know that Flash's silver age character was not the same as the golden age, especially due to the different costumes. But to a non-Marvel person, when "flaming" the silver age Torch looks just like the golden age.

 

Why reinvent a character from 1939?

 

Holy sh...!

 

I thought you were fooling.

 

It's hard to believe an old time collector who hasn't read FF 1 or a reprint is posting here. All four of the FF got their powers in FF 1 after being exposed to cosmic rays during a test space flight.

Oh sure, where were YOU when I was being abused for being the only one who couldn't believe that Shield didn't know the ABCs of Marvel history?

[awe4one]

Geesh guys, it was a sincere question. The golden age and silver age characters sure look the same to me, and I've never owned or read Fantastic four. The text I copied and pasted was from the link to the auction I provided. Now I do know that Flash's silver age character was not the same as the golden age, especially due to the different costumes. But to a non-Marvel person, when "flaming" the silver age Torch looks just like the golden age.

 

Why reinvent a character from 1939?

 

Holy sh...!

 

I thought you were fooling.

 

It's hard to believe an old time collector who hasn't read FF 1 or a reprint is posting here. All four of the FF got their powers in FF 1 after being exposed to cosmic rays during a test space flight.

Oh sure, where were YOU when I was being abused for being the only one who couldn't believe that Shield didn't know the ABCs of Marvel history?

 

Don't fret...won't be long before Joey Q sees some hype possibilities on making them one and the same...

 

Jim

[tth2]

Don't fret...won't be long before Joey Q sees some hype possibilities on making them one and the same...

Actually, Steve Englehart was a master at writing revisionist histories back in the 70s, which led to some great storylines. His reconciliation of the 1950s Captain America with the Timely/Marvel universe was a masterpiece. His turning the origin of Falcon on its head was great too.