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I'm confused. I thought the Golden Age Human Torch and the FF one..

Started by Shield,

122 posts in this topic

Aces

Aces

Posted
Posted
Geesh guys, it was a sincere question. The golden age and silver age characters sure look the same to me, and I've never owned or read Fantastic four. The text I copied and pasted was from the link to the auction I provided. Now I do know that Flash's silver age character was not the same as the golden age, especially due to the different costumes. But to a non-Marvel person, when "flaming" the silver age Torch looks just like the golden age.

 

Why reinvent a character from 1939?

 

Holy sh...! 893whatthe.gif

 

I thought you were fooling. tonofbricks.gif

 

It's hard to believe an old time collector who hasn't read FF 1 or a reprint is posting here. All four of the FF got their powers in FF 1 after being exposed to cosmic rays during a test space flight.

Oh sure, where were YOU when I was being abused for being the only one who couldn't believe that Shield didn't know the ABCs of Marvel history? poke2.gif

 

Playing Warcraft II blush.gif

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awe4one

awe4one

Posted
Posted
Don't fret...won't be long before Joey Q sees some hype possibilities on making them one and the same... 893scratchchin-thumb.gifinsane.gif

Actually, Steve Englehart was a master at writing revisionist histories back in the 70s, which led to some great storylines. His reconciliation of the 1950s Captain America with the Timely/Marvel universe was a masterpiece. His turning the origin of Falcon on its head was great too.

 

Not to mention revealing the Vision was actually the original Human Torch. grin.gif

 

One of my favorite Avengers storylines as a kid... cloud9.gif

 

Jim

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tth2

tth2

Posted
Posted
Don't fret...won't be long before Joey Q sees some hype possibilities on making them one and the same... 893scratchchin-thumb.gifinsane.gif

Actually, Steve Englehart was a master at writing revisionist histories back in the 70s, which led to some great storylines. His reconciliation of the 1950s Captain America with the Timely/Marvel universe was a masterpiece. His turning the origin of Falcon on its head was great too.

 

Not to mention revealing the Vision was actually the original Human Torch. grin.gif

 

One of my favorite Avengers storylines as a kid... cloud9.gif

 

Jim

thumbsup2.gif Yup, definitely one of the most underrated writers.

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Ares

Ares

Posted
Posted
No way...In fact, I believe the android that was the original Human Torch became the Vision...

 

Didn't the Vision start in Marvel Mystery #13? I have some Marvel Mystery's in the 30's, and there are Torch stories in there. Plus, the whole "Human Torch" Comics that lasted until the Atom age...

 

So if the original became the Vision, how could they run concurrently?

 

The Vision was made with spare parts left over when the First Human torch was created

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Timulty

Timulty

Posted
Posted

Okay guys, just to give you some insight into Shield. He primarily collects MLJ/Archie Comics. He is probably quite aware of Golden Age characters but I have never, ever heard him mention SA/BA or Copper comics, stories etc. So, cut him a little slack here. My grasp of SA character's continuity isn't much better. Since I consider the Silver Age a total loss. So, please guys, not every question that hits these boards(particularly those from long standing members) is a dig or veiled insult or nonsense.

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awe4one

awe4one

Posted
Posted
No way...In fact, I believe the android that was the original Human Torch became the Vision...

 

Didn't the Vision start in Marvel Mystery #13? I have some Marvel Mystery's in the 30's, and there are Torch stories in there. Plus, the whole "Human Torch" Comics that lasted until the Atom age...

 

So if the original became the Vision, how could they run concurrently?

 

The Vision was made with spare parts left over when the First Human torch was created

 

Actually the Vision was created by Ultron using the original Human Torch body, or a copy created by Immortus as outlined by Busiek in Avengers Forever, not spare parts, and was given the mind imprints of Wonder Man...

 

Unless this has been retconned to spare parts when I wasn't looking...

 

Jim

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Mister_Comics

Mister_Comics

Posted
Posted

If I remember right. Before Ultron, it was the Mad Thinker that used the original Human Torch to battle the FF in one of the Annuals. At the end of the story the original Torch was supposely killed. Then later Ultron used the original torch to create Vision. Not the same Vision as from the GA.

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awe4one

awe4one

Posted
Posted
If I remember right. Before Ultron, it was the Mad Thinker that used the original Human Torch to battle the FF in one of the Annuals. At the end of the story the original Torch was supposely killed. Then later Ultron used the original torch to create Vision. Not the same Vision as from the GA.

 

Was the original GA Vision made with spare parts from the Human Torch? confused.gif

 

Jim

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Ares

Ares

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Posted
No way...In fact, I believe the android that was the original Human Torch became the Vision...

 

Didn't the Vision start in Marvel Mystery #13? I have some Marvel Mystery's in the 30's, and there are Torch stories in there. Plus, the whole "Human Torch" Comics that lasted until the Atom age...

 

So if the original became the Vision, how could they run concurrently?

 

The Vision was made with spare parts left over when the First Human torch was created

 

Actually the Vision was created by Ultron using the original Human Torch body, or a copy created by Immortus as outlined by Busiek in Avengers Forever, not spare parts, and was given the mind imprints of Wonder Man...

 

Unless this has been retconned to spare parts when I wasn't looking...

 

Jim

Dam ....

Marvel.... Timelines....Duplicity...... Brain Exploding...

explodingmartian.jpg

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Forbush-Man

Forbush-Man

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Posted
Why is everyone taking Shield's comment seriously?

 

Can you please explain why we shouldn't?

Because I don't think Shield is a total insufficiently_thoughtful_person?

 

Now that's not very nice! Quick - tell me all you know about Bob Phantom! Oh wait, you don't know? Bob Phantom is as obscure to YOU as post-1960 Torch is to me. Sorry if that makes me a insufficiently_thoughtful_person!

 

(Why so mean tth?) frown.gif

 

 

Ya see, he's not a complete insufficiently_thoughtful_person.........you still have to add water. poke2.gif

 

 

 

acclaim.gif

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Shield

Shield

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So, who's going to address my post about all the characters that were "reinvented" vs. the ones that still exist from the 1940's?

 

Sorry guys, I went from being an Archie guy to really getting into the early Archie stuff, to completely being blown away by the golden age.

 

P.S. For a comic to have the golden age Torch vs. the "modern" Torch fighting each other is absurd to me. Sorry, I guess I just don't get it.

 

I'm quite sure if I'd read these as a kid I'd love them, but I just didn't.

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Darthdiesel

Darthdiesel

Posted
Posted

 

 

Ya see, he's not a complete insufficiently_thoughtful_person.........you still have to add water. poke2.gif

 

 

 

acclaim.gif

 

 

frown.gif

 

You're a insufficiently_thoughtful_person because you should have known that the Original Human Torch ran into Chuck Norris once and got roundhouse kicked from this plane of existence forever. Marvel had to come up with a new guy to replace him. I hear he's doing everything possible to avoid our favorite Texas Ranger...

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Forbush-Man

Forbush-Man

Posted
Posted

 

 

Ya see, he's not a complete insufficiently_thoughtful_person.........you still have to add water. poke2.gif

 

 

 

acclaim.gif

 

 

frown.gif

 

You're a insufficiently_thoughtful_person because you should have known that the Original Human Torch ran into Chuck Norris once and got roundhouse kicked from this plane of existence forever. Marvel had to come up with a new guy to replace him. I hear he's doing everything possible to avoid our favorite Texas Ranger...

 

893scratchchin-thumb.gif.............................................Darth does have a good point there. confused-smiley-013.gif

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selegue

selegue

Posted
Posted
41520036698.1.GIF

 

Writing as someone who thought the 60s Fantastic Four Annuals were big events, I'll add a scan of the cover of Fantastic Four Annual 4 (mentioned but not yet posted, I think).

 

1123163-FFA4.jpg

 

It's interesting to compare this cover to the 70s Human Torch 1. There was obviously an effort in the Annual to distinguish the two Torches. Kirby drew the GA Torch bulkier with more rounded flames, whereas the SA Torch looked more like a red version of Doom Patrol's Negative Man with the crackle of yellow flames around him. (Calm down -- I know that SA Torch was introduced before Doom Patrol, but Annual 4 is after.) A lot of this difference is probably thanks to Joe Sinnott's inks and the Unknown Colorist (probably Marie Severin or George Roussos).

 

You can see that even on the GA Human Torch reprints in Fantasy Masterpieces, there was an effort to make him look different from SA Torch -- this time by Gil Kane (Pencils) Frank Giacoia (Inks) Stan Goldberg (Colors) -- even when SA Torch wasn't nearby.

 

1123163-FM9.jpg

 

I was out of comics by the time the 70s Human Torch 1 came out. The two Torches look almost identical. When did Marvel stop worrying about whether they looked different? The cover has nothing to do with the stories inside, right? A reprint of SA Torch's solo debut in Strange Tales 101 (40s Human Torch didn't show up there as far as I remember) and a GA Human Torch reprint that obviously couldn't feature the SA Torch.

 

While I'm rambling about the appearance of the Torches, I'll add that the GA Torch and his sidekick Toro usually looked different in ways besides size -- different flame inking and coloring -- Alex Schomburg's pencils and inks here, unknown colorist.

 

1123163-HT11.jpg

 

I never could tell them apart from Torchy though.

 

Jack

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Shield

Shield

Posted
  • Author
Posted

 

 

Ya see, he's not a complete insufficiently_thoughtful_person.........you still have to add water. poke2.gif

 

 

 

acclaim.gif

 

 

frown.gif

 

You're a insufficiently_thoughtful_person because you should have known that the Original Human Torch ran into Chuck Norris once and got roundhouse kicked from this plane of existence forever. Marvel had to come up with a new guy to replace him. I hear he's doing everything possible to avoid our favorite Texas Ranger...

 

 

frown.gifforeheadslap.gif I made a mistake, a fatal mistake. I forgot to add teh Chuck Norris factor!

 

Yeah, I said "TEH Chuck Norris Factor". Like "teh sex". Feel free to use the phrase.

 

Shawn

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JuliusSeizure

JuliusSeizure

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Posted
Apparently everyone here believes Shield IS a total insufficiently_thoughtful_person since they believe he's really confused over whether the GA Human Torch is the same person as the FF Human Torch.

27_laughing.gif

 

I'm just imagining what would be going through a 'layperson's' mind (like my fiancee's), after stumbling across this sentence.

 

Geeks rule! thumbsup2.gif

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mica

mica

Posted
Posted
Sorry guys, I went from being an Archie guy to really getting into the early Archie stuff, to completely being blown away by the golden age.
Which is an interesting way to get into comic books. It's certainly a more PURE way than speculators who don't even read. thumbsup2.gif

 

P.S. For a comic to have the golden age Torch vs. the "modern" Torch fighting each other is absurd to me. Sorry, I guess I just don't get it.
Well think about the Original Torch getting knocked out of commision for awhile. Sort of a suspended animation, or merely being turned off for a few years.

So later when he awakens there is another Torch running around.

Eventually they would meet.

 

I'm quite sure if I'd read these as a kid I'd love them, but I just didn't.

Then pick up a Masterworks volume of the FF. Hopefully you'll like it. smile.gif

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