I'm confused. I thought the Golden Age Human Torch and the FF one..

[mica]

Also if the idea of two Torch's seems a bit much to you, well the latter came about his powers accidentally and assumed the name of the Original.

Sort of a tribute.

Hope this helps.

[deathlok]

So, who's going to address my post about all the characters that were "reinvented" vs. the ones that still exist from the 1940's?

 

Sorry guys, I went from being an Archie guy to really getting into the early Archie stuff, to completely being blown away by the golden age.

 

P.S. For a comic to have the golden age Torch vs. the "modern" Torch fighting each other is absurd to me. Sorry, I guess I just don't get it.

 

I'm quite sure if I'd read these as a kid I'd love them, but I just didn't.

Shield, very few of the Golden Age characters still exist in todays comics. The problem with using the same characters ftome that time period is age. It is unlikely that a character that fought crime in the 1940s would still be around fighting crime today in the 2000s.

 

So each company, Marvel and DC, devised ways around this.

 

DC used the theory of having multiple Earths, which had different time periods. So all the Golden Age heroes still exist on a seperate Earth from the current Earth heroes. So basically there were at least two sets of heroes, only they existed on different Earths. That was until the 80s when DC had Crisis on Infinite Earths, where they merged the multiple Earths into one Earth. Many of the duplicated heroes died in the porcess, and some survived.

 

Marvel on the other hand, kinda ignored history. The Human Torch has been talked about already. The Sub-Mariner is the same GA character he is today. Ka-Zar I think is the same person.

 

The reason that Johnny Storm was made into the Human Torch, was that Stan Lee wanted each of the four to have a superpower based upon the elements. So when it came to the element of fire, there isn't much choice in design. So you could say it was an homage to the Torch of yesteryear.

[Shield]

So, who's going to address my post about all the characters that were "reinvented" vs. the ones that still exist from the 1940's?

 

Sorry guys, I went from being an Archie guy to really getting into the early Archie stuff, to completely being blown away by the golden age.

 

P.S. For a comic to have the golden age Torch vs. the "modern" Torch fighting each other is absurd to me. Sorry, I guess I just don't get it.

 

I'm quite sure if I'd read these as a kid I'd love them, but I just didn't.

Shield, very few of the Golden Age characters still exist in todays comics. The problem with using the same characters ftome that time period is age. It is unlikely that a character that fought crime in the 1940s would still be around fighting crime today in the 2000s.

 

So each company, Marvel and DC, devised ways around this.

 

DC used the theory of having multiple Earths, which had different time periods. So all the Golden Age heroes still exist on a seperate Earth from the current Earth heroes. So basically there were at least two sets of heroes, only they existed on different Earths. That was until the 80s when DC had Crisis on Infinite Earths, where they merged the multiple Earths into one Earth. Many of the duplicated heroes died in the porcess, and some survived.

 

Marvel on the other hand, kinda ignored history. The Human Torch has been talked about already. The Sub-Mariner is the same GA character he is today. Ka-Zar I think is the same person.

 

The reason that Johnny Storm was made into the Human Torch, was that Stan Lee wanted each of the four to have a superpower based upon the elements. So when it came to the element of fire, there isn't much choice in design. So you could say it was an homage to the Torch of yesteryear.

 

Keep going, this is very interesting. I'll throw out some characters, and please tell me which version exists today. If it's not the original, please tell me what happened to them.

 

1. Superman

2. Batman

3. Robin

4. The Spectre

5. Hawkman

6. Wonder Woman

7. The Vision

8. Lois Lane

 

That's all for now.

[Timulty]

The Spectre(formerly Jim Corrigan) is now Crispus Allen. Was Hal Jordan(formerly SA Green Lantern) before Crispus and After Corrigan. You don't even want to talk about Dr. Fate or Starman for that matter.

[Red Hook]

I'm actually sitting here reading this thread with my mouth open in amazement. I guess it just proves that a lot of us have expertise in a relatively narrow area of comic collecting. Enjoy the discoveries, Shawn!

 

I think it's rarer though, for someone to start collecting much older books (GA) and then work their way into contemporary stuff, then it is for a collector to move from contemporary and then backwards in time.

 

Red

[Shield]

I'm actually sitting here reading this thread with my mouth open in amazement. I guess it just proves that a lot of us have expertise in a relatively narrow area of comic collecting. Enjoy the discoveries, Shawn!

 

I think it's rarer though, for someone to start collecting much older books (GA) and then work their way into contemporary stuff, then it is for a collector to move from contemporary and then backwards in time.

 

Red

 

Well close your mouth, you'll catch flies like that! Actually, I should pick up some more archives. It's not like I'm close minded or anything, I just have a big stack of golden age Strange Adventures I haven't read yet, and I'm still finishing up the Action archives and Blackhawk. I've read every MLJ book ever printed, including Archie 1-100 though. I've almost read every EC book too.

 

I realize how popular the silver age stuff is, and I do like the artwork on the covers, but it just doesn't do it for me. Maybe if I start reading some archives it will!

 

So what silver age archive editions are there that I can buy? I haven't read a whole lot of Spiderman, and certainly not the early stuff.

 

I need help here people!

[Rocketeer]

 

Keep going, this is very interesting. I'll throw out some characters, and please tell me which version exists today. If it's not the original, please tell me what happened to them.

 

1. Superman

2. Batman

3. Robin

4. The Spectre

5. Hawkman

6. Wonder Woman

7. The Vision

8. Lois Lane

 

..Only Superman and Lois Lane, who have been brought back in Infinite Crisis,...and Lois is hanging by a thread as it is,...but before last year the answer would have been none...

[Ares]

Two torches is no big deal..

Its not like there were Two Spider-men

[Timulty]

[RDK]

I'm actually sitting here reading this thread with my mouth open in amazement. I guess it just proves that a lot of us have expertise in a relatively narrow area of comic collecting. Enjoy the discoveries, Shawn!

 

I think it's rarer though, for someone to start collecting much older books (GA) and then work their way into contemporary stuff, then it is for a collector to move from contemporary and then backwards in time.

 

Red

 

Well close your mouth, you'll catch flies like that! Actually, I should pick up some more archives. It's not like I'm close minded or anything, I just have a big stack of golden age Strange Adventures I haven't read yet, and I'm still finishing up the Action archives and Blackhawk. I've read every MLJ book ever printed, including Archie 1-100 though. I've almost read every EC book too.

 

I realize how popular the silver age stuff is, and I do like the artwork on the covers, but it just doesn't do it for me. Maybe if I start reading some archives it will!

 

So what silver age archive editions are there that I can buy? I haven't read a whole lot of Spiderman, and certainly not the early stuff.

 

I need help here people!

 

Pick up a few of the Marvel Essentials (if you can stomach B&W) or the Marvel Masterworks hardcovers if you can afford them. I'd start with the FF (what I feel is the greatest superhero comivc book of all time) or Spider-Man.

[Darthdiesel]

 

Keep going, this is very interesting. I'll throw out some characters, and please tell me which version exists today. If it's not the original, please tell me what happened to them.

 

1. Superman

2. Batman

3. Robin

4. The Spectre

5. Hawkman

6. Wonder Woman

7. The Vision

8. Lois Lane

 

..Only Superman and Lois Lane, who have been brought back in Infinite Crisis,...and Lois is hanging by a thread as it is,...but before last year the answer would have been none...

 

 

Yeah Crisis on Infinite Earths happened and all of the "originals" have been redone a bit.

 

1. Superman - today's is the same as the one intro'd in Byrne's Superman 1?

2. Batman

3. Robin - 4th incarnation now? Grayson - the original is now Nightwing, Jason Todd = Red Hood, might be next Nightwing after this current Crisis, the 3rd was a girl who is the Spoiler but she may or may not be dead?

4. The Spectre - just recently was floating around w/o a host, wreaking havoc on magic users and magic itself; it's like he went all far right Christian on Harry Potter and just got tied down to a new human host, some dude shot by a corrupt Gotham cop?

5. Hawkman - Don't know who is under the mask now...it isn't that egyptologist still, is it?

6. Wonder Woman - Wonder Woman from Byrne series continuity; no longer Diana Prince from back in the day?

7. The Vision - dead from Avengers Disassembled; latest reincarnation in Young Avengers where his essence was locked in some armor from the future? So you have the same storyline wherre his thought patterns get saved

8. Lois Lane - definitely not the one from the Superman's GFE series

[Mister_Comics]

Supposenly when the "NEW LOOK" accord, thats when the Earth 1 Batman stories ended. Earth 2 Batman is always shown with the yellow bat symbol on his chest. No where does it come out and say this. Its kind of been mentioned in stories over time. Books like B&B#200, JLA's, Batman #300, that sort of books.

 

And according to an old batman story in Detective. Bruce wore the Robin costume once as a kid. So tech. he's the 1st Robin.

[awe4one]

Yeah Crisis on Infinite Earths happened and all of the "originals" have been redone a bit.

 

1. Superman - today's is the same as the one intro'd in Byrne's Superman 1?

 

Good reboot...

 

2. Batman

 

Good reboot...

 

3. Robin - 4th incarnation now? Grayson - the original is now Nightwing, Jason Todd = Red Hood, might be next Nightwing after this current Crisis, the 3rd was a girl who is the Spoiler but she may or may not be dead?

 

 

Good reboot but becoming too complicated...

 

4. The Spectre - just recently was floating around w/o a host, wreaking havoc on magic users and magic itself; it's like he went all far right Christian on Harry Potter and just got tied down to a new human host, some dude shot by a corrupt Gotham cop?

 

The Spectre has been a complete mess...

 

5. Hawkman - Don't know who is under the mask now...it isn't that egyptologist still, is it?

 

Ditto...a complete mess.

 

6. Wonder Woman - Wonder Woman from Byrne series continuity; no longer Diana Prince from back in the day?

 

Good reboot after Crisis...can't speak to any changes Byrne made...

 

7. The Vision - dead from Avengers Disassembled; latest reincarnation in Young Avengers where his essence was locked in some armor from the future? So you have the same storyline wherre his thought patterns get saved

 

Most screwed over character in the Marvel Universe in my opinion...first Byrne, fixed by Harras, now ruined yet again by Bendis... Just sad...

 

8. Lois Lane - definitely not the one from the Superman's GFE series

 

Rebooted with Supes...good reboot...

 

Jim

[Rocketeer]

Supposenly when the "NEW LOOK" accord, thats when the Earth 1 Batman stories ended. Earth 2 Batman is always shown with the yellow bat symbol on his chest. No where does it come out and say this. Its kind of been mentioned in stories over time. Books like B&B#200, JLA's, Batman #300, that sort of books.

 

... The "New Look" Batman is considered to be the start of the "Silver Age" Batman,...not necessarily the present day Batman as per Comic Buyer's Guide last month,...

[uclapeterg]

Can someone tell me how many members are in the Fantastic Four?

 

They started at four.

Went to five with Crystal (issues in the 70s) and almost at the same time went to six when Franklin was born. Then back to five when Crystal had to leave (issue 99 started a arc which lead to, a few issues later, sickness from pollution mading her return to the Hidden Land).

 

Then Sue and Franklin left making it three, but Medusa joined soon after getting them back up to four.

 

Sue and Franklin returned (issue 149) and Medusa left and we are back to five.

 

Powerman replaced the Thing for a bit. Still five.

The Impossible man show up for awhile after the Thing returned and Powerman left (issue 176). That's six.

 

They all broke up in issue 190.

Down to zero.

 

They returned to fight Doc Doom climaxing in issue 200.

The five (Ben, Sue, Reed, Johnny, Franklin) are back.

 

Don't even get me going on that Herbie stuff.

 

Some copper/modern guys can fill in the rest.

 

So what you're really saying is.. it depends.

 

BTW I don't count Franklin as a FF "member" because he's too young (except in 245).

[JuliusSeizure]

Supposenly when the "NEW LOOK" accord, thats when the Earth 1 Batman stories ended. Earth 2 Batman is always shown with the yellow bat symbol on his chest. No where does it come out and say this. Its kind of been mentioned in stories over time. Books like B&B#200, JLA's, Batman #300, that sort of books.

 

... The "New Look" Batman is considered to be the start of the "Silver Age" Batman,...not necessarily the present day Batman as per Comic Buyer's Guide last month,...

 

Except...the first Batman to join the JLA (Earth-1) had the old chest symbol (no yellow oval). And in Batman #183, the fact that the symbol changed is a plot point (a Batman impostor is caught because he's using the old symbol). So the Earth-1 Batman did use the old symbol, and predates Batman #164 / Detective #327. I don't know enough about that era to have an opinion on when the change did occur.

[deathlok]

 

 

1. Superman - The GA version was thought to be dead, until recently.

 

2. Batman - The GA version is dead.

 

3. Robin - There was not GA version. The original Robin, Grayson, became Nightwing. Batman had a second Robin, Jason Todd, who was thought to be dead, but recently emerged as a hero/villain named Red Hood. The current Robin, Tim Drake, is with the Teen Titans.

 

4. The Spectre - Is just a force of nature and not confined to one person. so has changed hosts over time.

 

5. Hawkman - I have no idea about his history.

 

6. Wonder Woman - Again, not the same GA character. Her mother, Hippolyta, became Wonder Woman for a time.

 

7. The Vision - The GA character, not the same as the current Vision. As was mentioned the current vision is an android created from the original Human Torch, and downloaded with Wonder Man's memories. Vision has been destroyed a couple times only to transfer his memory to a Avengers mainframe computer to be downloaded into a new body later.

 

8. Lois Lane - not the same as the GA character. I believe it is the same as the one in the Superman GF title, but I could be wrong.

[deathlok]

Can someone tell me how many members are in the Fantastic Four?

 

They started at four.

Went to five with Crystal (issues in the 70s) and almost at the same time went to six when Franklin was born. Then back to five when Crystal had to leave (issue 99 started a arc which lead to, a few issues later, sickness from pollution mading her return to the Hidden Land).

 

Then Sue and Franklin left making it three, but Medusa joined soon after getting them back up to four.

 

Sue and Franklin returned (issue 149) and Medusa left and we are back to five.

 

Powerman replaced the Thing for a bit. Still five.

The Impossible man show up for awhile after the Thing returned and Powerman left (issue 176). That's six.

 

They all broke up in issue 190.

Down to zero.

 

They returned to fight Doc Doom climaxing in issue 200.

The five (Ben, Sue, Reed, Johnny, Franklin) are back.

 

Don't even get me going on that Herbie stuff.

 

Some copper/modern guys can fill in the rest.

 

So what you're really saying is.. it depends.

 

BTW I don't count Franklin as a FF "member" because he's too young (except in 245).

It was a future version of Franklin, not the small child. Franklin used the Time Machine to travel back. I think he had his mothers powers of telekinesis. He led the group in a title called Fantastic Force.

[JuliusSeizure]

Can someone tell me how many members are in the Fantastic Four?

 

They started at four.

Went to five with Crystal (issues in the 70s) and almost at the same time went to six when Franklin was born. Then back to five when Crystal had to leave (issue 99 started a arc which lead to, a few issues later, sickness from pollution mading her return to the Hidden Land).

 

Then Sue and Franklin left making it three, but Medusa joined soon after getting them back up to four.

 

Sue and Franklin returned (issue 149) and Medusa left and we are back to five.

 

Powerman replaced the Thing for a bit. Still five.

The Impossible man show up for awhile after the Thing returned and Powerman left (issue 176). That's six.

 

They all broke up in issue 190.

Down to zero.

 

They returned to fight Doc Doom climaxing in issue 200.

The five (Ben, Sue, Reed, Johnny, Franklin) are back.

 

Don't even get me going on that Herbie stuff.

 

Some copper/modern guys can fill in the rest.

I can carry the ball a little farther.

 

She-Hulk replaced the Thing round about Secret Wars - FF #265 or so. The Thing came back from Battleworld, hung around with the West Coast Avengers for awhile, and finally came back to the FF around #296, phasing She-Hulk back out to the (East Coast) Avengers.

 

Reed and Sue "retired" around FF #305, leaving a slightly estranged Thing and Torch (that happens when you court and marry your buddy's ex while he's enjoying temporary humanity on another planet) to recruit Johnny's ex-girlfriend Crystal and the Sharon Ventura Ms. Marvel (who becomes a She-Thing in #311). If that sounds like a typical Steve Englehart soap opera, go to the head of the class, but Stainless Steve did turn out some good yarns during this time. Reed and Sue came back around the end of Englehart's run (#327 or so) and the original four were together again.

[mica]

I stopped buying the title when Torch figures out that his wife is the Skrull Lyja.

What ever happened to that relationship?