I'm confused. I thought the Golden Age Human Torch and the FF one..

[Jeffreykli]

 

3. Robin - There was not GA version. The original Robin, Grayson, became Nightwing. Batman had a second Robin, Jason Todd, who was thought to be dead, but recently emerged as a hero/villain named Red Hood. The current Robin, Tim Drake, is with the Teen Titans.

 

There's a GA version of Grayson, who on Earth-2 grows up. He crosses over in an issue of Justice League of America. I think he died in the original Crisis, though.

[awe4one]

I stopped buying the title when Torch figures out that his wife is the Skrull Lyja.

What ever happened to that relationship?

 

An egg...

 

And never to be re-examined...which is a shame as I was interested at the time...

 

Jim

[Rocketeer]

 

3. Robin - There was not GA version. The original Robin, Grayson, became Nightwing. Batman had a second Robin, Jason Todd, who was thought to be dead, but recently emerged as a hero/villain named Red Hood. The current Robin, Tim Drake, is with the Teen Titans.

 

There's a GA version of Grayson, who on Earth-2 grows up. He crosses over in an issue of Justice League of America. I think he died in the original Crisis, though.

 

..here's when he took over for batman,..nice copy but not mine,.. mine is a 9.4 with white pages,...

 

[mica]

I stopped buying the title when Torch figures out that his wife is the Skrull Lyja.

What ever happened to that relationship?

 

An egg...

 

And never to be re-examined...which is a shame as I was interested at the time...

 

Jim

I don't regret leaving then. I picture everything on hold at that point.

[Shield]

 

3. Robin - There was not GA version. The original Robin, Grayson, became Nightwing.

 

I'm quite sure there's some Detective #38 and up owners who would disagree with you....

[nearmint]

Obviously Bucky from Captain America died

 

Uh, Shield, we need to talk...

[Shield]

Ok, when did all these GA characters meet their end?

 

Supes, Batman, etc. Can anyone specifically point out their last issue in their original format?

 

If Submariner is the same character, how does Crisis explain that?

 

So confusing..I'm glad I'm stuck in 1935-1955!

[nearmint]

If Submariner is the same character, how does Crisis explain that?

 

Crisis only affected the DC universe.

 

Whatever you do, don't cross the streams!!!

[mica]

So confusing..I'm glad I'm stuck in 1935-1955!

On a lesser scale that is what I've done. Many things after the 1980's didn't happen as far as I'm concerned.

[deathlok]

Ok, when did all these GA characters meet their end?

 

Supes, Batman, etc. Can anyone specifically point out their last issue in their original format?

 

If Submariner is the same character, how does Crisis explain that?

 

So confusing..I'm glad I'm stuck in 1935-1955!

As nearmint said, Crisis only affected the DC universe.

 

If you really truly want to know, go pick up the Crisis on Infinite Earths TPB. This should explain many of your questions about the different timed characters.

[RDK]

That's why I don't get too caught up in wanting perfect continuity. We're talking about characters who've been around for 40-70 years, with nearly monthly adventures... most aimed at kid/teenage readers who might only read a book for a few years before discovering the wonders of girls, books, and adult life...

 

In order to remain relevant, the characters have to grow with the times, and yet they can't do that (over a period of decades) without aging. So compromises have to be made, characters need to either be "reinvented" or simply allowed to change without us geeky fanboys getting all pissy about it. I'd rather have a good story told regardless of strict continuity. It's less confusing that way and it gives me fewer reasons to stress out...

[Ares]

Can someone tell me how many members are in the Fantastic Four?

 

They started at four.

Went to five with Crystal (issues in the 70s) and almost at the same time went to six when Franklin was born. Then back to five when Crystal had to leave (issue 99 started a arc which lead to, a few issues later, sickness from pollution mading her return to the Hidden Land).

 

Then Sue and Franklin left making it three, but Medusa joined soon after getting them back up to four.

 

Sue and Franklin returned (issue 149) and Medusa left and we are back to five.

 

Powerman replaced the Thing for a bit. Still five.

The Impossible man show up for awhile after the Thing returned and Powerman left (issue 176). That's six.

 

They all broke up in issue 190.

Down to zero.

 

They returned to fight Doc Doom climaxing in issue 200.

The five (Ben, Sue, Reed, Johnny, Franklin) are back.

 

Don't even get me going on that Herbie stuff.

 

Some copper/modern guys can fill in the rest.

I can carry the ball a little farther.

 

She-Hulk replaced the Thing round about Secret Wars - FF #265 or so. The Thing came back from Battleworld, hung around with the West Coast Avengers for awhile, and finally came back to the FF around #296, phasing She-Hulk back out to the (East Coast) Avengers.

 

Reed and Sue "retired" around FF #305, leaving a slightly estranged Thing and Torch (that happens when you court and marry your buddy's ex while he's enjoying temporary humanity on another planet) to recruit Johnny's ex-girlfriend Crystal and the Sharon Ventura Ms. Marvel (who becomes a She-Thing in #311). If that sounds like a typical Steve Englehart soap opera, go to the head of the class, but Stainless Steve did turn out some good yarns during this time. Reed and Sue came back around the end of Englehart's run (#327 or so) and the original four were together again.

To keep the ball in Play

Luke Cage

 

After he was reward for foiling a robbery attempt, Cage sold himself as a super-powered mercenary. Slow business picked up after hooking up with Nightwing Restorations and he opened Heroes For Hire with Iron Fist. It was during this time the Reed Richards employed Cage to replace the Thing after he had temporarily lost his powers. Ben was quite upset until he found that Cage was only to be a replacement until Reed could finish building his Thing exoskeleton for him.

 

Fantastic Four, vol 1 #347

Fantastic Four, vol 1 #348

Fantastic Four, vol 1 #349

The FF is

Spiderman

Hulk

Ghost Rider

Wolverine

[Zonker]

 

1. Superman - The GA version was thought to be dead, until recently.

 

2. Batman - The GA version is dead.

 

3. Robin - There was not GA version. The original Robin, Grayson, became Nightwing. Batman had a second Robin, Jason Todd, who was thought to be dead, but recently emerged as a hero/villain named Red Hood. The current Robin, Tim Drake, is with the Teen Titans.

 

4. The Spectre - Is just a force of nature and not confined to one person. so has changed hosts over time.

 

5. Hawkman - I have no idea about his history.

 

6. Wonder Woman - Again, not the same GA character. Her mother, Hippolyta, became Wonder Woman for a time.

 

7. The Vision - The GA character, not the same as the current Vision. As was mentioned the current vision is an android created from the original Human Torch, and downloaded with Wonder Man's memories. Vision has been destroyed a couple times only to transfer his memory to a Avengers mainframe computer to be downloaded into a new body later.

 

8. Lois Lane - not the same as the GA character. I believe it is the same as the one in the Superman GF title, but I could be wrong.

 

 

Shield,

 

Hang on, this is gonna get messy. Even messier than the previous posts may have led you to believe!

 

A. PRE-Crisis on Infinite Earths continuity (the way things worked until 1985)

Golden Age = Earth 2 Silver Age = Earth 1

 

Superman, Batman, Robin, Hawkman, the Spectre, Wonder Woman, Lois Lane all got their start in the WWII period. Apart from Lois and Robin, they were Justice Society of America members and appeared in the Golden Age All-Star Comics. By the time the Silver Age rolled around, it was revealed that all these characters existed on Earth-2. The new stories of that time, the Silver Age, featured characters appearing on a parallel world of Earth-1. There were a couple of reasons for this: First, it explained the revamped Silver Age versions: Barry Allen Flash vs. Jay Garrick Flash, Hal Jordan GL vs. Alan Scott GL. Second, it let the 1960s versions of the heroes be always relatively youthful, rather than tied to their WWII era origins.

 

The Earth-1 Silver Age versions in some cases (Superman, Batman, Robin, Wonder Woman, Lois Lane) were almost identical to their Golden Age Earth-2 counterparts. A trivial difference was the SA WW's mother was a blond, whereas the GA WW's mother was a brunette. In other cases, the Earth-1 versions were different: Barry Allen was Flash, Hal Jordan was GL, Ray Palmer was the Atom. In each case, the Hawkman of Earth 1 & 2 was named Carter Hall, but the GA version was a reincarnated Egyptian prince, whereas the SA version was an alien lawman Katar Hol, Anglicized to "Carter Hall." Originally there was no Earth-1 Spectre-- his Silver Age series was explicitly specified as occuring on Earth-2. By the 1970s this became confused due to his several teamups with the then-current Batman in Brave & Bold. This was one among many reasons for launching the Crisis on Infinite Earths reboot.

 

B. Post-Crisis continuity.

In 1985 DC essentially said: "Nothing published up until now ever happened. It all starts over, and only if we explicitly reference an old story can you consider that old story to have actually happened." There was no more Earth-1 or Earth-2. On the single post-Crisis Earth, Superman, Batman, Robin, WW never existed during WWII, they were ret-conned as 1980s latecomers to the super-hero party. Spectre and Hawkman existed as JSA members from WWII. The Silver Age version of Hawkman was kind of in limbo, and attempts to reconcile his history with the Golden Age history and the new Tim Truman "Hawkworld" revamp eventually collapsed under their own weight. As Deathlok mentions above, later ret-cons were built on top of these ret-cons, for example with the post-Crisis WW's mother going back in time to act as the Wonder Woman during WWII, rescuing from limbo all those Golden Age All-Star Comics stories with WW prominently featured as a JSA member. Post-Crisis continuity became an even bigger mess than before. If you're really a machoscist, try pulling up some Wikipedia references to the subject. (I've only scratched the surface).

 

C. Post-Infinite-Crisis continuity.

Coincidentally, DC is right now in the middle of another re-vamp. Earth-2 is at least temporarily brought back, along with the Golden Age Superman & Lois Lane. Hints are that the Golden Age WW is also coming back. Within the next two months, we'll hopefully see a resolution of these storylines, and the entire DC continuity jumps forward One Year Later. What is unknown at this point is whether that continuity will pick up from the post-Crisis 1985 timeline, or whether the outcome of Infinite Crisis is yet another history re-write.

[Mister_Comics]

CRISIS was ment to simplifly the DC universe. Make it easier to understand. All it did was make it more confusing.

 

They were better off with having different worlds. I actually liked that better.

 

DC and MARVEL should both come out with books that explain all this stuff that we are talking about. It would help thier business with new readers.

[Timulty]

You don't even want to go into Earth-S and others.

[deathlok]

You don't even want to go into Earth-S and others.

Earth-Prime

[FlyingDonut]

Ok, when did all these GA characters meet their end?

 

Supes, Batman, etc. Can anyone specifically point out their last issue in their original format?

 

If Submariner is the same character, how does Crisis explain that?

 

So confusing..I'm glad I'm stuck in 1935-1955!

 

I'm doing this from memory while I wait for my [embarrassing lack of self control] pricing guys to get my proposal done, so bear with me. Note that this is all pre-Crisis, as all of the reboots after that make Hulk's head hurt.

 

Superman - last Golden Age appearance was never really done, he just sort of morphed into the Silver Age Superman, who's last appearance was Superman 232. Superman 233 is the first Bronze Age Superman. The first Silver Age "appearance" of the Golden Age Superman is Justice League of America 74 (or 75, I can't remember). The Golden Age Superman married Lois Lane in Superman Family 211.

 

Batman - last Golden Age appearance was Detective Comics 326, with the "New Look" Silver Age Batman changing in Detective 327. This is an easy one to spot - Batman with no yellow circle around his chest logo = the Golden Age Batman. The first Bronze Age Batman (time for controversy) is Batman 217. The Golden Age Batman appeared in back up stories in Adventure, and died (and didn't get better) in Adventure Comics 462.

 

Spectre - last Golden Age appearance in his own series was in More Fun #101, while he bowed out of the JSA almost simultaneouslyin All-Star #23. First Silver Age Spectre is in Showcase 60. First Bronze Age Spectre is in Adventure Comics 431.

 

Flash - last Golden Age appearance of the Jay Garrick Flash was All-Star 57. First "Silver Age" appearance of the new Barry Allen Flash was Showcase 4, with the first appearance of Jay Garrick in the Silver Age in Flash 123. First Kid Flash was Flash 110, first Kid Flash as Flash was Crisis 8(?).

 

Wonder Woman - last Golden Age appearance of Wonder Woman is rather arbitrarily set as Wonder Woman 104, with the first Silver Age appearance in Wonder Woman 105. The first Bronze Age Wonder Woman is probably Wonder Woman 201, but it isn't really a real date.

 

others?

[Timulty]

Actually, Wasn't the Gog Go outfit Wonder Woman Bronze Age?

[Zonker]

That looks correct-- Amazing memory!

 

But it might be misleading to Shield and others not steeped in this continuity stuff: The Bronze Age versions of these characters may have been written a tad more realistic, but they were understood to be the same characters as the Silver Age versions. Unlike say, the Golden Age Flash versus the Silver Age Flash: entirely different characters.

 

And, as my previous post mentioned, the Silver Age Spectre was actually the same character as the Golden Age Spectre, picking up his adventures on Earth-2 after a 20 year gap up until that point.

 

Bronze Age WW? Hmmm, I'd guess maybe #212, the first Julie Schwartz edited issue. Particularly since immediately preceeding it, they were publishing a series of retro-Golden Age stories, I believe even re-using Golden Age scripts, and drawing them in a distinctly cartoonish style compared to other books of the day.

[Shield]

This is so confusing. When they show the original golden age superheroes, are they all grey-haired and old? If not, how do they explain the time that's passed? Also, let's say the 1956 Flash is the "new" Flash. That's 50 years ago - assuming he was 18 at the time, he'd be 68 years old!

 

Why not just make all heroes immune to time or something, a la Archie Andrews? That kid's been a 17 year old high school junior forever!