Stocks vs. Comics

[Rip]

Ah its nice to see the thread back on track......

 

[blazingbob]

Gordan, You are the man for the job.

 

Set up the Options market for the top 100 CGC books and start trading those Put's and Calls!

 

Hulk 181 CGC 9.6 Strike price $5000 Calls $500, Puts $500 expiratlon Date 1/21/2004.

 

Ok, let's start trading boys.

 

 

[Zonker]

Not true, as companies have real world assets (not to mention serious cash reserves) that have actual value and liquidity.

 

Is theory this is true. But when it comes to practice, companies like Enron are skilled at hidding their corruption in order to look like they have such things.

 

Here's the limit of my stock picking advice-- ya might want to look at stocks that actually ship dollars to their shareholders on a regular basis (i.e. a dividend). The Enrons and Worldcoms have shown us that paper profits are easy to fudge and revenue recognition is easy to manipulate. But if real dollars are transferring from company to shareholder on a quarterly basis, that tends to be a bit of tangible evidence that some sort of value is being created somewhere within the company!

[OldSchoolTerry]

Not true, as companies have real world assets (not to mention serious cash reserves) that have actual value and liquidity.

 

Is theory this is true. But when it comes to practice, companies like Enron are skilled at hidding their corruption in order to look like they have such things.

 

Here's the limit of my stock picking advice-- ya might want to look at stocks that actually ship dollars to their shareholders on a regular basis (i.e. a dividend). The Enrons and Worldcoms have shown us that paper profits are easy to fudge and revenue recognition is easy to manipulate. But if real dollars are transferring from company to shareholder on a quarterly basis, that tends to be a bit of tangible evidence that some sort of value is being created somewhere within the company!

 

But, keep in mind at the same time that a lot of companies paying dividends are large companies that are now slow growers, without much room for more real growth, as far as entering into new markets, etc. They're paying dividends, because there's no more reason to plow the money into expanding the company. So, they pay the dividends. The dividends also attract and keep investors in the stock, because there will not likely be any huge appreciation in the stock price itself.

[delekkerste]

Please scan these so called reports for us, so we can see with our own eyes.

 

Hey, it's my favorite shill stalker, Mister_Mean! Sorry to call your bluff, M_M, but I'm sure I can dig up any number of prescient calls that made or saved people big money (most notably my spectacular forecast in December 1993 predicting what turned out to be the exact top to within 0.01 on $/yen and its subsequent collapse that cost people betting against me literally billions of dollars in early 1994). I don't have an image hosting capability for this, but any doubters who want to be beaten into a state of whimpering silence regarding my prognosticating abilities can PM me with their e-mail address and I'll e-mail you a scan or two. I can try attaching a reduced size version to a post here, though I'm not sure how easy it will be to read.

 

While at Salomon, I wrote with great success about stocks, bonds, gold, currencies, oil...didn't matter to me. If it's a market, even a comic book market, it's ruled by human psychology and human psychology can be gamed (it just requires you to take off your fanboy hat and spend some time doing research). Just look for the lemmings running mindlessly towards and throwing mad money at the overpriced high-grade SA/early Bronze Marvels perched on the cliff edge and then wait to pick 'em off as they plunge to the bottom.

 

Gene

[delekkerste]

Gordan, You are the man for the job.

 

Set up the Options market for the top 100 CGC books and start trading those Put's and Calls!

 

Hulk 181 CGC 9.6 Strike price $5000 Calls $500, Puts $500 expiratlon Date 1/21/2004.

 

Ok, let's start trading boys.

 

 

I think it would take someone with Valiantman's technical abilities to set up a proper online exchange. I think we may run afoul of the SEC and some anti-gambling laws as well, but if someone wants to set it up, sign me up for some long-term puts on Marvel Premiere #15, Marvel Feature #1, Marvel Spotlight #5 and Defenders #1. Hulk #181's too risky for my blood!

 

Gordon

[blazingbob]

Man, you gotta go take the fun out of it don't you by mentioning that legal stuff

 

[Zonker]

But, keep in mind at the same time that a lot of companies paying dividends are large companies that are now slow growers, without much room for more real growth, as far as entering into new markets, etc. They're paying dividends, because there's no more reason to plow the money into expanding the company. So, they pay the dividends. The dividends also attract and keep investors in the stock, because there will not likely be any huge appreciation in the stock price itself.

 

That's certainly true-- I was speaking from a defensive position to one worried about outright fraud and the desire to own a tangible asset. Certainly capital gains is where the real money is to be made in the stock market-- but to some extent a rising stock price absent dividend growth (or at least real, un-cooked earnings growth) is the result of the 'greater fool theory,' not unlike the thinking behind now buying a slabbed 9.6 (watch me, guys, I'm about to say it) Incredible Hulk 181!

[whetteon]

[qoute]Comic books generate no interest, dividends or earnings. They are only "art" and "history" to the limited group of people who read and collect them, whose ranks are thinning slowly but surely over time. They have almost zero intrinsic value. [/qoute]

 

As is the Mona Lisa, any pablo paintings, ect, ect and yet I don't see a decrease in their value. Do you? So I'm not sure what your point is here sir. If it is that comic books will eventually stop being worth anything then I think you are mistaken and have taken your examples to the extreme in order to prove a half truth. If its to prove that the market is over-valued then your preaching to the choir.

[valiantman]

I think it would take someone with Valiantman's technical abilities to set up a proper online exchange. I think we may run afoul of the SEC and some anti-gambling laws as well, but if someone wants to set it up, sign me up for some long-term puts on Marvel Premiere #15, Marvel Feature #1, Marvel Spotlight #5 and Defenders #1. Hulk #181's too risky for my blood!

 

Gordon

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I doubt my technical abilities would

be up to writing the code for a stock exchange, even if it is comics.

 

Stock options are a complex way to start the market, wouldn't you say?

 

We should probably start with the "simple stuff" and build from there.

 

Someone with an Amazing Spider-man #1 in CGC 8.0 could sell

"shares" in the book. Determine a good market value and divide it by

the number of shares available... maybe 1,000 shares for the book.

 

The "shareholders" would literally own 0.1% of the book for each share they own,

and if 50.1% of the "shares" ever voted to sell the book on Ebay/Heritage/Privately,

the book is sold and the proceeds (profit or loss) would be split.

 

Otherwise, you would need a way to buy and sell the shares themselves,

even though the comic would not be put on the market.

 

Whoever originally owned the book (and is holding onto the book)

was the one who received the payments for the shares to begin with, so he/she

would be automatically required to "buy back" the shares, but not necessarily

for the original purchase price. (Small details to be worked out later...)

 

The "market value" of the book could be determined by the latest "share price"

assuming that the shares are bought and sold regularly.

(1,000 times the latest share price would be the approximate

"market capitalization value" for the book, possibly.)

 

It would definitely take a while to get all the rules in place, and all of the kinks worked out...

but if it all started with 100 or 1,000 shares in a single book...

the "comic book stock market" might spring up from there...

and eventually the "options market" could have legs, too.

Or maybe I'm just... ... or ...

 

(Think about it though, most of us will never own ASM #1 CGC 8.0,

so why not have the opportunity to own PART of one?)

[whetteon]

I would like to think that the comic market is 2-3 years from actually doing something like this. What's the difference between buying comic books and buying gold bars? I would ultimately like to see wall street firms investment portolio's holding a couple of comics as well as bonds, gold and oddles of stock.

[lighthouse]

I would like to think that the comic market is 2-3 years from actually doing something like this. What's the difference between buying comic books and buying gold bars? I would ultimately like to see wall street firms investment portolio's holding a couple of comics as well as bonds, gold and oddles of stock.

 

Who says Greg Buls wasn't ahead of his time?

[delekkerste]

I would ultimately like to see wall street firms investment portolio's holding a couple of comics as well as bonds, gold and oddles of stock.

 

OK, now you're just pulling my leg. I can see it now, "And this morning, Goldman Sachs' Abby Joseph Cohen reduced her stock allocation to 60% from 70% and advised clients to increase their high-grade pre-65 Marvel keys exposure to 25% from 15%. In related news, Merrill Lynch announced that an exchange-traded basket of professionally graded Golden Age keys will begin trading on the NYSE under the company's HOLDRs program as of Thursday under the symbol CGC."

 

If you think this is a good idea, I suggest you open your history book and look at what happened to the high-grade coin market in the late '80s and early '90s after Merrill Lynch put their clients into that market. By the mid-1990s, prices had crashed through the floor, giving back the huge gains that were made temporarily and then some.

 

As for comparing the value of mass-produced dimestore funny books to works by Leonardo da Vinci and Pablo Picasso...I don't think we even need to go there.

 

Gene

[ArAich]

As for comparing the value of mass-produced dimestore funny books to works by Leonardo da Vinci and Pablo Picasso...I don't think we even need to go there

 

I agree....those two guys sucked!!!...

[supapimp]

Gordan, You are the man for the job.

 

Set up the Options market for the top 100 CGC books and start trading those Put's and Calls!

 

Hulk 181 CGC 9.6 Strike price $5000 Calls $500, Puts $500 expiratlon Date 1/21/2004.

 

Ok, let's start trading boys.

 

 

if so, i'm going "short" on HULK 181& MS 5.

[whetteon]

As for comparing the value of mass-produced dimestore funny books to works by Leonardo da Vinci and Pablo Picasso...I don't think we even need to go there.

 

I'm not sure why we can't compare. Are you telling me your an art critic as well as stock investor? Many early comic covers are considered "classic" and are indeed placed in art galleries as pop art.

 

On the note about the early coin market in the 90's... I was unaware that this genre was tried before. I will INDEED open some history books and investigate.

[clobberintime]

No - he is an Ivy leaguer from NYC and that being the situation, all else is irrelevant. The next time that you dare respond to a thread from one of the NYC know it alls, make sure you show the proper respect or you shall be severely chastised.

[BachelorOfComix]

No - he is an Ivy leaguer from NYC and that being the situation, all else is irrelevant. The next time that you dare respond to a thread from one of the NYC know it alls, make sure you show the proper respect or you shall be severely chastised.

[whetteon]

No - he is an Ivy leaguer from NYC and that being the situation, all else is irrelevant. The next time that you dare respond to a thread from one of the NYC know it alls, make sure you show the proper respect or you shall be severely chastised.

 

Sorry, if I came off as confrontational. I was actually debating a topic that I felt was interesting. In fact, I feel Gene is very knowledgable about this subject and it was an honor to listen to his rebutals

[scottish]

As for comparing the value of mass-produced dimestore funny books to works by Leonardo da Vinci and Pablo Picasso...I don't think we even need to go there.

 

I'm not sure why we can't compare. Are you telling me your an art critic as well as stock investor? Many early comic covers are considered "classic" and are indeed placed in art galleries as pop art.

 

On the note about the early coin market in the 90's... I was unaware that this genre was tried before. I will INDEED open some history books and investigate.

 

I would venture this thought in regard to actual Art vs comics:

 

There is ONE Mona Lisa and usually only ONE original of any specific painting by an artist. Add to the fact that Da Vinci lived what 400-500 years ago?

 

Taking everyone's favorite example: How many Hulk 181s are there? Certainly many, many more than one. Even Action Comics 1 has more than a few copies floating about.

 

Finally, the 'perceived' value and historical significance of a Da Vinci, Michaelangelo, etc., completely DWARFS that of ANY comic book in existence.

 

Please note that the above is ONLY MHO and should not be taken as gospel.