Why Sellers Should Consider "0 Feedback" Bidding Policies

[dopy02]

same spoon is jacking up bid on SM CGC 9.6 Item number: 250046671537 right now

[dopy02]

SM 34

[esquirecomics]

Beginning today, we will automatically remove feedback ratings left by buyers who do not respond to the Unpaid Item process on eBay. This means the rating (whether positive, neutral or negative) will no longer affect the recipient's feedback score, although the feedback comment itself will remain. An administrative note from eBay will be added to the comment, indicating that the feedback rating was removed because the member did not participate in the Unpaid Item process on eBay.

 

I feel at least somewhat more reassured that something will be done by ebay to resolve my situation (assuming the buyer doesn't respond to the unpaid dispute notification), but I find it objectionable that the comment itself still remains. If that truly is the case I intend to try and modify that policy.

[BronzeBruce13]

Yup… I'm watching him too. He could turn out to be legit on this one, but his behaviour was definitely very suspicious when he "jacked" me on the Paradise Comics auction I won (see first post). If (IF) he's not legit, now he's possibly cost someone serious money $222.

 

One thing's clear… he's a seller's best friend right now. Especially those without 0-Feedback bidding restrictions..

 

 

 

 

same spoon is jacking up bid on SM CGC 9.6 Item number: 250046671537 right now

[dopy02]

I don't believe he is the sellers best friend but the opposite. I mostly sell Silver Surfer books on ebay and blocked him when I saw him bidding up Surfer auctions. He just don't look right.

[BronzeBruce13]

Well the seller (Paradise Comics) that he "jacked" me up on does not share your point of view. They do not currently have any sort of "0/Low Feedback" policy in place to protect legit bidders like myself. What's more, the seller wanted to give this 0-Feedback bidder (and his questionable "bid retraction" behavior) the "benefit of the doubt". My position and satisfaction as the winning bidder seemed to be a secondary concern judging from the responses I received. The primary concern appeared to be exploring the possibility of getting the highest sale possible by giving the underbidder options after the fact. As I pointed out in an earlier post, I have several objections to that course of action.

 

Here's the Paradise Comics auction bid history that he jacked me on…

 

[kc120us]

Well the seller (Paradise Comics) that he "jacked me" up on does not share your point of view. They do not currently have any sort of "0/Low Feedback" policy in place to protect legit bidders like myself. What's more, the seller wanted to give this 0-Feedback bidder (and his questionable "bid retraction" behavior) the "benefit of the doubt" (small wonder). My position and satisfaction as the winning bidder seemed to be a secondary concern judging from the responses I received. The primary concern appeared to be exploring the possibility of getting the highest sale possible by giving the underbidder options after the fact. As I pointed out in an earlier post, I have several objections to that course of action.

 

Here's the Paradise Comics auction bid history that he jacked me on…

 

 

Bruce, isn't Paradise Comics a forum member here? maybe you can pm them and make them aware of this thread. they may not be aware of the situation.

[kc120us]

Beginning today, we will automatically remove feedback ratings left by buyers who do not respond to the Unpaid Item process on eBay. This means the rating (whether positive, neutral or negative) will no longer affect the recipient's feedback score, although the feedback comment itself will remain. An administrative note from eBay will be added to the comment, indicating that the feedback rating was removed because the member did not participate in the Unpaid Item process on eBay.

 

I feel at least somewhat more reassured that something will be done by ebay to resolve my situation (assuming the buyer doesn't respond to the unpaid dispute notification), but I find it objectionable that the comment itself still remains. If that truly is the case I intend to try and modify that policy.

 

Good luck, Mark. Let us know how things turn out.

[dopy02]

The position your seller took bites. No argument there. I'm saying low feedback bidders who run up auctions are not good for ANYONE.

[BronzeBruce13]

Yes, they are… as I referenced above, I had several communications with Pete in which I politely voiced my concerns and position regarding this auction, but I was left with the distinct impression that the underbidder's position was more important than mine and the preferred course of action was to give the "more than suspicious" underbidder all the options to obtain the book anyway, regardless. So, I voiced my disagreemnet and disappointment with his "point of view" on the matter. I then paid the "jacked" amount in full as I did want the book, regardless of the fact that my high bid was clearly "explored".

 

I also suggested that Paradise consider adopting some kind of "0/Low Feedback Bidding Policy" to avoid having other future winning bidders feel that they were taken advantage of like I felt.

 

I did not hear anything back after that.

[BronzeBruce13]

Sharp… I had not noticed nor considered the possibility that the 2nd underbidder may be the culprit as you describe. I reported the auction to Ebay and they will investigate both IDs to see if they can make a connection.

 

 

I always assume that shill bidder questions are in regards to the seller.

My mistake.

On second review of the bids, it is without doubt clear that "d.andr.comics " switched over to his shill account to find out what the high bid was.

Look at the timing on the bids. Fifteen minutes later his zero account takes over the $4-5 dollar bumps.

 

Report him Bruce, this is pretty cut and dried.

[Dmac538]

I recently had to put in an Unpaid Item into Ebay from a 0 feedback person, so i will change my policy in the future. I hate the hassle of doing it , but it has to stop.

[Kevin Boyd]

I did not hear anything back after that.

 

Probably because Peter went to Dallas?

 

Bruce, I'm somewhat aware of this situation because Peter explained his point of view to me, and he did share some of your points with me as well, on our trip to Dallas this past weekend for the Wizard show.

 

I understand your frustration, and if I were in your position the red lights would be going, but I can assure the more skeptical forumites that the 0 feedback bidder was not a shill for Paradise Comics.

 

As Peter explains it, why adopt a zero feedback bidder policy when, as a seller, you have had many uneventful but positive transactions with zero feedback bidders?

 

Are you suggesting that newbies not be allowed to bid on eBay transactions? I'm inclined to go with Pete on this, because as a seller I've had positive transactions with zero feedback bidders. However, while I don't know about Pete, I do bar people with multiple recent negatives and recent bid cancellations from bidding on auctions when I do list items.

 

As he explained it, and you also confirmed here, you contacted Pete and said, this bidder is fishy, therefore I want to buy the book for $67 instead of the final auction price of $75.99. The seller's reaction is no, the final price was $75.99 because we don't know that the underbidder was not going to honor his last bid of $74.99, but if you don't want to pay the $75.99 he could contact that person and see if they would pay the $74.99 - is that not a realistic means of gauging whether or not the bidder was fishing or bidding appropriately? eBay is still charging the seller a Final Value Fee based on the $75.99 price why not see if the underbidder was legit? I'm sure he would have informed you what happened. If the seller wasn't interested then you were correct in your suspicions of a thrill bidder.

 

I do know he told you he didn't know if there was a policy to deal with this situation to everyone's satisfaction, but that if you knew of one he would be willing to follow eBay's recommendation.

[Kevin Boyd]

Sharp… I had not noticed nor considered the possibility that the 2nd underbidder may be the culprit as you describe. I reported the auction to Ebay and they will investigate both IDs to see if they can make a connection.

 

 

I always assume that shill bidder questions are in regards to the seller.

My mistake.

On second review of the bids, it is without doubt clear that "d.andr.comics " switched over to his shill account to find out what the high bid was.

Look at the timing on the bids. Fifteen minutes later his zero account takes over the $4-5 dollar bumps.

 

Report him Bruce, this is pretty cut and dried.

 

I personally have met the bidder d.andr.comics (he's a collector who lives just outside of Toronto and comes to a lot of local events) and I really hope that he would not stoop to such illegal actions as using a shill to find out other bidder's max bids. I find this disturbing.

 

If he was using a shill and this can be proven then the account should be removed by eBay and from the auction completely and you should get a refund of the additional price bumps. I'm sure that Paradise would honor if that was revealed to be the case.

[BronzeBruce13]

Hey Kevin,

 

As you are aware from my comments in this thread, I made it clear a few times that I had little if no concern that Paradise Comics was involved directly in shilling. My issue is primarily with the Underbidder(s), his/their possible motives, and what rules are currently in place (or should be) to protect bidders (and sellers too) from this activity.

 

I relayed to Pete in our communications that I considered Paradise above such behavior… and to ebay as well when I asked them to investigate the underbidders when I filed a complaint last night

 

I don't know Pete very well Kev, but I'll tell you that most of my confidence in Paradise is directly connected with my belief in your charcter, your stellar reputation in the hobby, and knowing you're associated with the company.

 

I sought feedback from others here due to the differing positions Pete and I had and because I wanted to learn more about the rules in place and what experiences and policies others have concerning this topic.

 

I firmly believe I presented the facts and information fairly.

 

As to a few of your points…

 

• Probably because Peter went to Dallas?

 

Kev, I believe Paradise is a large enough operation that the owner could easily relay to an employee to follow up on an important communication if he wished. Even if it was nothing more than an alert that the owner would be unreachable for "x amount" of time and would follow up a communication when he returned. So, if Pete wanted to follow up, he could have. In Dallas, or not… if he felt the situation was important enough, I don't feel that's a good excuse, especially when he knew the underbidder was at very least "suspect" and a legit winning bidder was not happy for unquestionably valid reasons.

 

• As Peter explains it, why adopt a zero feedback bidder policy when, as a seller, you have had many uneventful but positive transactions with zero feedback bidders?

 

Simply because there are a fair amount of experiences that go the other way and protecting established customers from even occasional "0/Low Feedback BS" would seem to me to be a concern a wise businessman would have. As I mentioned, these bidders "do not have to be excluded" either, the policy could be as simple as asking for email contact prior to bidding from 0, or less than 10 feedback bidders to attempt to establish their sincerity. A hassle and loss of time?… yes. Worthwhile?… It would have been in this case as I would have felt there was at least a policy in place to "try" and prevent the "more often" suspect habits of 0/Low Feedback bidders from causing harm.

 

• Are you suggesting that newbies not be allowed to bid on eBay transactions?

 

No, see above. I just feel a "policy of some sort" (basically a good-faith measure) that demonstrates that legit customers are considered "more important" to the seller than the potential extra revenue that these type of 0/Low Feedback bidders are more likely to cause… would be a good thing.

 

• As he explained it, and you also confirmed here, you contacted Pete and said, this bidder is fishy, therefore I want to buy the book for $67 instead of the final auction price of $75.99. The seller's reaction is no, the final price was $75.99 because we don't know that the underbidder was not going to honor his last bid of $74.99, but if you don't want to pay the $75.99 he could contact that person and see if they would pay the $74.99 - is that not a realistic means of gauging whether or not the bidder was fishing or bidding appropriately?

 

Firstly, I pointed out the underbidder's activity and asked Pete that if he agreed that the underbidder was not legit to revise my invoice. If not, please LMK why not. I was open-minded initially, but was indeed turned off with Pete's reply in which he wanted to consider the bidder legit and give him options to prove it. That surprised and disturbed me, and no I don't feel its the appropriate direction for the seller to take in this case for many reasons I've relayed to Pete and posted in this thread.

 

Had the bidder only "bid me up" and not taken the lead by $5 and then retracted in within seconds afterwards, I'd lean Pete's way. That said, I may not have even arrived at the same conclusion had he not bid, bid, bid, then retracted.

 

Honestly, Kev… I think Pete's preferred course of action is not fair to a winning bidder. It benefits the seller and gives him options to better his position by using the suspect bidders bids as leverage. Even if the underbidder accepted, I don't think that definitively proves anything… much less that his actions were noble during the auction. Please review the points I made specific to this point earlier in the thread and in the email to Pete.

 

• I do know he told you he didn't know if there was a policy to deal with this situation to everyone's satisfaction, but that if you knew of one he would be willing to follow eBay's recommendation.

 

That's wonderful, Kev… no disrespect, but he would have to wouldn't he? If I was in Pete's shoes as the seller, I'd take it upon myself to look into the matter and take the winning bidder's position and concerns seriously, regardless if it meant a lower end result. I would not leave it up to the bidder to prove… at least not in a case as suspect as this one. I would want my customers to know that I would not tolerate such behavior and place their best interests as close to, if not before, my own.

 

I'm off to work and will respond later to any comments you and Pete may have,

[Kevin Boyd]

I always like to clarify that while Peter and I are friends and partners in the convention business, I am not a partner in his brick and mortar store (just a customer there). Certainly we talk about things like this that come up.

 

I don't answer for Peter, he's got to do that for himself.

 

I understand you didn't like Peter's e-mail responses re: his position on the matter, and as I understand it you relayed that in your communication with him. I appreciate that you would like a zero feedback policy adopted, and Peter to do things the way you prefer, but that's up to the seller to decide.

 

I get the feeling that I'm now entering into a debate with you, and I think that's a little of what was going on behind the scenes. I don't want to debate you on this, as this isn't my decision or policy, I'm just relaying some of the whys as they were explained to me - and while I can see your point, I also can see Peter's.

 

Paradise being a big operation or not, the transaction, as it was explained to me, was done because you decided not to wait to see what the underbidder had to say, you paid. I think they feel this is over with and they sending the book (or they have already). I don't know how communication ended, you say you had an additional query, maybe they feel it was over and done with or that, with Peter away, that the one store employee who would have been monitoring e-mails over the last few days thought it was something that could wait for Peter's return rather than reply to say "Peter is away and will respond when he returns on Tuesday".

 

Again, in your response, I hear a lot of judgement about how you want things done, or would prefer they be done, and hey... I respect that as the customer that is your right. I can't make this better, or get them to change. I can only make recommendations as a friend and interested party from another aspect of the business.

 

That you decided to bring the matter up to the court of public opinion here on the boards, because you don't like Peter's position on this matter. Fine... perhaps that will also get Peter to review his policy...

 

I'm sorry that things did not work out. As a person that prefers to see the customer happy, I certainly regret that Peter may have lost your future business, but ultimately as a consumer with personal choice - if you don't like his policy as a seller and he isn't going to change it, I don't see any future transactions between you.

[THE_BEYONDER]

I recently had to put in an Unpaid Item into Ebay from a 0 feedback person, so i will change my policy in the future. I hate the hassle of doing it , but it has to stop.

 

If everyone blocks 0/low feedback users from bidding, how are collectors new to Ebay going to be able to buy anything?

 

I remember when I was a 'zero feedback bidder'. it would have been severely lame if I couldn't bid on the books I wanted back then because the sellers had adopted such a policy.

[dopy02]

has this guy ever bought anything or does he just run up the bid?

 

Member Profile: drsmez (0)

 

Member since: May-30-98

 

 

Bidder Bid Amount Date of bid

 

sifi-relic( 333) US $55.67 Nov-03-06 17:30:28 PST

 

 

 

willn.( 1584) US $55.00 Nov-04-06 09:41:16 PST

 

 

drsmez( 0 ) US $48.00 Nov-04-06 07:44:29 PST

 

 

tonygoingonce1( 30) US $22.00 Nov-03-06 17:39:48 PST

 

 

tonygoingonce1( 30) US $20.00 Nov-03-06 17:39:20 PST

 

 

tonygoingonce1( 30) US $17.00 Nov-03-06 17:39:04 PST

 

 

tonygoingonce1( 30) US $15.00 Nov-03-06 17:13:18 PST

[the_Greatest]

I recently had to put in an Unpaid Item into Ebay from a 0 feedback person, so i will change my policy in the future. I hate the hassle of doing it , but it has to stop.

 

If everyone blocks 0/low feedback users from bidding, how are collectors new to Ebay going to be able to buy anything?

 

I remember when I was a 'zero feedback bidder'. it would have been severely lame if I couldn't bid on the books I wanted back then because the sellers had adopted such a policy.

 

I've never seen anything in writing regarding rules on blocking low feedback bidders.

I mentioned before, I'm curious if it even matters if you request emails from low feedback bidders prior to their bidding.

If a zero snipes your auction with 5 seconds left, I doubt that you can cancel his bid. I'm guessing that if I'm cancelling low feedback bids, and they complain about it, I'm the one with the problem.

In case there are sellers who aren't aware, there are limited restrictions that you can impose. Selecting Bidder Requirements

 

The most helpful I think is requiring bidders to have paypal accounts, which doesn't necessarily mean they have to use paypal, but should weed out a large portion of the riff raff.

[THE_BEYONDER]

The most helpful I think is requiring bidders to have paypal accounts, which doesn't necessarily mean they have to use paypal, but should weed out a large portion of the riff raff.

 

I actually love this idea. To be honest, I'd like to deal exclusively through Paypal in all my Ebay dealings.