Some interesting general info about Edgar Church...

[lou_fine]

The search has already been done. I located Churchs daughter Doris back in late 2003. At that time she was alive and in her early 80's. I was hoping to do an article on the collection, so I wrote to her asking if she would be willing to talk about her father and his collection. She didn't respond.

 

After she didn't respond I turned over my info to Matt Nelson for possible use in the pedigree book. When I last heard from Matt approx. a year later, he hadn't had any luck in getting her to open up either. Who knows maybe over the last couple of years she has changed her mind and there will be some interesting stuff to read about the collection in the pedigree book.

 

Well, it sounds like you must have done some good investigative work here!

 

Maybe you should try for the grandchildren next.

 

Either that or we could ask Chuckles himself to give it the old college try since I am sure some of the Church heirs would just love to get their hands on old Chuckie.

[The Black Hand ®]

I remember reading Chuck's account of the Church collection and truly enjoying it.I don't know him but I think I saw him once in San Diego at his table. I have read a lot of what I perceive to be sarcastic remarks about him pertaining to the aquisition of the Mile High books and have to wonder how differently others would have behaved in the same situation. Does anyone think that Chuck outright cheated the family? I wonder.... if Chuck hadn't come along, would the books would have been tossed out in the garbage or would some more altruistic dealer have come along to alert the family of the collections potential value, while offering to take the books on consignment.

[mdandy8]

I think that you have to look at the time period involved here. Yes the books are highly valued TODAY, but then? They were stacked in a basement....just stacked on wooden shelves, in a closet, whatever. Sure there was some interest in saving them, but to suggest that he was somehow collecting them as a comic collector of today would is most likely not true. If this had been the case the I don't think that you would have the mostly random stacking of the comics (ie: books of lesser value stacked along side rare books). Also, if he collected and knew the value, then it would have been harder to buy them for what Chuck did. Also recall we are talking about a different time here: Fewer collectors, books not worth so much, and the money he spent was a lot to spend on comics at the time.

 

All that being said, I've never met Chuck, except on line, and have no idea what the REAL story is. Did he rip them? Sure, maybe. On the other hand they most likely thought they were getting a good deal at the time too, after all they had to AGREE to the deal, not like he held a gun to them? They had no action from anyone else...wanted to get rid of them.... I will say this about his stories of the MH and MH2 collections: They both share themes that I have to assume come from him and not from actual events. This is not so much "lies" as just a coloring of events that is the same from story to story.

 

The one thing I'm SURE is true is that Chuck has deep regrets about selling some of those books. Sure he made some good cash, but think about it: If he had any idea what was coming he would have hung on to a few more. Would he admit to this? No. He seems to have a good deal of pride and ego which would prevent that, but I don't think he is much different from any of us. I still kick myself for lost books, even the ones I made money on.

[Bronty]

Each year Chuck would go to his list of buyers (starting from the top) and call to see if they were interested in buying Church books. There was a minimum $10,000 order, meaning you had to come up with 10 Grand minimum to make a purchase. If you had $50,000, you would be the only purchaser of Church books that year, due to the cap Chuck put on his own selling! However, if you did not make a purchase, you were still on the list for next year, but you were put at the bottom of the list.

 

I wonder how rigidly he stuck to that plan, though. My (flawed) memory recalls him being set up at Houston Con in 1978 with high grade Golden Age. I remember being appalled at his prices. (You have to keep in mind this is back when Mint was something like 3X good in the guide.)

 

Well clearly something doesn't add up. If the tidbit earlier in the thread about chuckles netting 2 mil for the collection was true, and if the $50k per year ceiling was true, then that's enough books for 40 years...

[mdandy8]

Each year Chuck would go to his list of buyers (starting from the top) and call to see if they were interested in buying Church books. There was a minimum $10,000 order, meaning you had to come up with 10 Grand minimum to make a purchase. If you had $50,000, you would be the only purchaser of Church books that year, due to the cap Chuck put on his own selling! However, if you did not make a purchase, you were still on the list for next year, but you were put at the bottom of the list.

 

I wonder how rigidly he stuck to that plan, though. My (flawed) memory recalls him being set up at Houston Con in 1978 with high grade Golden Age. I remember being appalled at his prices. (You have to keep in mind this is back when Mint was something like 3X good in the guide.)

 

Well clearly something doesn't add up. If the tidbit earlier in the thread about chuckles netting 2 mil for the collection was true, and if the $50k per year ceiling was true, then that's enough books for 40 years...

 

You're not calling him a liar are you?! Heh...you're right, does not work out

[mdandy8]

 

The one thing I'm SURE is true is that Chuck has deep regrets about selling some of those books. Sure he made some good cash, but think about it: If he had any idea what was coming he would have hung on to a few more. Would he admit to this? No. He seems to have a good deal of pride and ego which would prevent that, but I don't think he is much different from any of us. I still kick myself for lost books, even the ones I made money on.

 

Here it is in his own words:As incredible as it may sound, I realized not that long ago that if I were now given the chance to trade my stock in Mile High Comics for the return of all the Edgar Church comics, I would keep my stock in Mile High Comics. While Edgar Church's comics were his legacy, Mile High Comics will be mine. Church's comics might still have greater value on paper, but Mile High is my creation, and it grows stronger every day. We've now shipped over $70,000,000 in orders to about 400,000 comics fans around the world.

 

It is, however, interesting reading if nothing else

[Bronty]

So he's obviously thought about it many times and probably regretted selling the church copies many times if he's only realized "not that long ago" that he'd rather keep his stock...

 

Not surprising really, how could anyone not regret keeping more of that collection. But it was a vastly different time and 2mil in proceeds back in the late 70s ain't exactly bad. No one could have known what comic prices would do 25 years out. And he did get good prices for them (at the time). Just surprising he didn't keep more of the church copies for himself, but I guess as he was trying to grow his business it was probably the easiest way to get capital.

[adamstrange]

So he's obviously thought about it many times and probably regretted selling the church copies many times if he's only realized "not that long ago" that he'd rather keep his stock...

 

Not surprising really, how could anyone not regret keeping more of that collection. But it was a vastly different time and 2mil in proceeds back in the late 70s ain't exactly bad. No one could have known what comic prices would do 25 years out. And he did get good prices for them (at the time). Just surprising he didn't keep more of the church copies for himself, but I guess as he was trying to grow his business it was probably the easiest way to get capital.

 

I don't know whether he regrets selling them or not. Chuck seems to be a merchant first, comic collector second (or third, after pottery). Ask any of the big dealers whether they regret selling their big score and they'll pretty much all tell you they're okay with it -- it comes with the territory.

[adamstrange]

Each year Chuck would go to his list of buyers (starting from the top) and call to see if they were interested in buying Church books. There was a minimum $10,000 order, meaning you had to come up with 10 Grand minimum to make a purchase. If you had $50,000, you would be the only purchaser of Church books that year, due to the cap Chuck put on his own selling! However, if you did not make a purchase, you were still on the list for next year, but you were put at the bottom of the list.

 

I wonder how rigidly he stuck to that plan, though. My (flawed) memory recalls him being set up at Houston Con in 1978 with high grade Golden Age. I remember being appalled at his prices. (You have to keep in mind this is back when Mint was something like 3X good in the guide.)

 

Well clearly something doesn't add up. If the tidbit earlier in the thread about chuckles netting 2 mil for the collection was true, and if the $50k per year ceiling was true, then that's enough books for 40 years...

 

The 2 million number is from my recollection of the CBG articles about the collection by Chuck. I think he's put them on his site so it's pretty easy to validate whether I remember correctly. Also, he certainly did not start immediately with the 50K per year sales -- there were clearly major sales of books in the early years. I had not heard about the 50k / year sales but suspect that was a way to limit the sales of the remainder of the book.

[Bronty]

Well, him being a merchant first was exactly my point in that selling them would have been the easiest way to get the money to grow his business.

 

But I'm still a little surprised he didn't hold a bit back. My experience has been that most dealers still have a tiny sliver of collector left in them... for example, look at fishler's mile high peps that he's keeping for himself along with the original art collection.

 

So I'm surprised that he didn't keep at least a couple of nice runs. The spirits that he supposedly kept don't really compare, you know?

[The Black Hand ®]

Ooooohhh....Mile High Peps...

[adamstrange]

Well, him being a merchant first was exactly my point in that selling them would have been the easiest way to get the money to grow his business.

 

But I'm still a little surprised he didn't hold a bit back. My experience has been that most dealers still have a tiny sliver of collector left in them... for example, look at fishler's mile high peps that he's keeping for himself along with the original art collection.

 

So I'm surprised that he didn't keep at least a couple of nice runs. The spirits that he supposedly kept don't really compare, you know?

 

Not all dealers care that much about collecting. Per Geppi: The difference between a dealer's stock and his collection? Six Months.

 

If the rumors are true, Fishler has more than a few books kept back. So do several other dealers, but in many cases it serves as a buffer in bad times or nest egg for the big purchase or retirement. At some point, the books you buy and sell and buy and sell lose some of their lustre.

[Bronty]

No question. I'm really not disputing any of that, and I'm not disputing that for most dealers even the personal collection can be sold for a price (really that's true of most collectors also). But still......

[The Black Hand ®]

It makes sense that if you work in a candy store you might become a bit immune to the allure of sweets.

[jmg3637]

I believe that he did keep some of the books. I remember reading about a few runs that he had kept and then while cleaning out a closet or barn or something he came across a bunch that had been put aside for his saint of a wife Nanette.

 

I have met Chuck a few times and talked with him on the phone as well. While he embelishes things he seems quite honest and genuine overall. I trust what he says far more than what most big dealers say.

[Arty]

I think that you have to look at the time period involved here. Yes the books are highly valued TODAY, but then? They were stacked in a basement....just stacked on wooden shelves, in a closet, whatever. Sure there was some interest in saving them, but to suggest that he was somehow collecting them as a comic collector of today would is most likely not true. If this had been the case the I don't think that you would have the mostly random stacking of the comics (ie: books of lesser value stacked along side rare books).

 

He stopped collecting comics in mid 50s at the age of around 67 after buying them for over 20 years. And then kept them untouched for another 20.

Was there any better ways to store comics at the time? -NO

He didn't know the value of his books: doesn't make him any less collector. Nor the fact he buy them new. (On the first years he bought used comics)

 

Also, if he collected and knew the value, then it would have been harder to buy them for what Chuck did

 

Even if he knew, he was 89, hospitalized and in his deathbed when Chuck bought his comics. Did anyone even tell him?

 

Also recall we are talking about a different time here: Fewer collectors, books not worth so much, and the money he spent was a lot to spend on comics at the time.

 

?

 

Does anyone except a collector buy 18000+ comics for a lot of money and never read them?

 

I'm even starting to think he was the first "modern" comic collector. He didn't buy them to read but just to keep.

[maxstuf]

 

The one thing I'm SURE is true is that Chuck has deep regrets about selling some of those books. Sure he made some good cash, but think about it: If he had any idea what was coming he would have hung on to a few more. Would he admit to this? No. He seems to have a good deal of pride and ego which would prevent that, but I don't think he is much different from any of us. I still kick myself for lost books, even the ones I made money on.

 

Here it is in his own words:As incredible as it may sound, I realized not that long ago that if I were now given the chance to trade my stock in Mile High Comics for the return of all the Edgar Church comics, I would keep my stock in Mile High Comics. While Edgar Church's comics were his legacy, Mile High Comics will be mine. Church's comics might still have greater value on paper, but Mile High is my creation, and it grows stronger every day. We've now shipped over $70,000,000 in orders to about 400,000 comics fans around the world.

 

It is, however, interesting reading if nothing else

 

And it does give a little more insight into how much he sells each year. I have no reason to doubt his numbers. I believe he wrote that article 2-3 years ago, and stated the 70 million in sales figure.

 

Today however he states that the number in just those 2-3 short years has now risen to the following. This is taken from his ebay listing:

 

In closing, I want to brag a little. Mile High Comics has been in business for over 37 years under my personal ownership. During those many decades that we've been in the business our team of seasoned professionals been chosen to ship over one hundred million dollars in back issue comics and magazines, to satisfied collectors all around the world."

 

 

Not bad for just selling funny books.

[sacentaur]

This is taken from his ebay listing:

 

In closing, I want to brag a little. Mile High Comics has been in business for over 37 years under my personal ownership. During those many decades that we've been in the business our team of seasoned professionals been chosen to ship over one hundred million dollars in back issue comics and magazines, to satisfied collectors all around the world."

 

Would that make him America's # 1 Comic Book Dealer (excluding auction houses like Heritage which stomp out the competition)?

 

STEVE

[metropoliscomics]

This is taken from his ebay listing:

 

In closing, I want to brag a little. Mile High Comics has been in business for over 37 years under my personal ownership. During those many decades that we've been in the business our team of seasoned professionals been chosen to ship over one hundred million dollars in back issue comics and magazines, to satisfied collectors all around the world."

 

Would that make him America's # 1 Comic Book Dealer (excluding auction houses like Heritage which stomp out the competition)?

 

STEVE

 

Hey, is that another unprovoked dig at Metropolis by Steve Carey? You know, I think it is.

 

S

[RareHighGrade]

OT: Can someone tell me what the earliest known Church book is? Actually, there may be two questions: (1) what is the earliest known book he bought off the rack, and (2) what is the earliest known book he bought second-hand?

 

Adam, maybe you know the answers to these questions?