So, what is Standard procedure????

[NoImSpartacus]

Okay! Lets say a customer buys a Raw book from a dealer and the dealer believes the book is 9.2. Nice looking book and everything the dealer thought it should be. Customer buys the book.

Sends it off to CGC and it comes back 8.5.

 

Well, now what does the dealer do?

The reason I ask is cause I can seen this type of thing happening all over the place. In stores and at shows. When the book comes back in higher grade then nothing is said and the book is kept without question. When it comes back lower, it goes back to the dealer.

 

Some dealers are not giving the money back saying that its only CGCs opinion as they dont look upon them as the number one authority.

Others refund the money instantly.

 

Is there a standard procedure that is usually followed? Otherwise this type of thing is going to happen all the time.

What are all your thoughts.

 

Five stars to all replies.

 

[deathlok]

Unfortunatly I think that the buyer should be aware of what they are buying. As I have said before sellers are like used car salesman in the respect that they are going to oversell the product. There will always be someone to come along and pay for it. The wiser the buyers are, hopefully the more honest the sellers will be. Pipe dream, I know. Anyway, as much as I would like to blame them, I don't think the sellers can be responsible.

[chromium]

There is a very interesting topic on this subject right here :

web page

 

You even get the seller's answer on why they won't accept a return on books that turned out to be overgraded...

[MrNice-migration]

OK, let's say that a buyer picks up a raw book from a seller that grades and auctions it as a 9.0 and it's submitted to CGC, who grades the book a 9.2 .

Does the buyer owe the seller 50 to 150% more because the book turned out to be better than as the seller described it.

 

The only way to flatten out both sides of the spectrum is to have a situation where CGC must pre-approve every transaction between a buyer and a seller on un-slabbed material before the transaction takes place. Sound feasible??

 

If it comes to a monopoly on the hobby like that, why advertise a raw book at all if CGC must give their approval before a transaction takes place. And while on the subject of fairness, all CGC graded material should be returnable to the seller in case the buyer doesn't agree with their findings, or an independent clearing house/tribunal should be formed for all transactions to be reviewed before being consummated (in which case, you'd have a 2 year waiting period on the purchase of a book, pending committee approval).

[Arty]

Okay! Lets say a customer buys a Raw book from a dealer and the dealer believes the book is 9.2. Nice looking book and everything the dealer thought it should be. Customer buys the book.

Sends it off to CGC and it comes back 8.5.

 

Well, now what does the dealer do?

The reason I ask is cause I can seen this type of thing happening all over the place. In stores and at shows. When the book comes back in higher grade then nothing is said and the book is kept without question. When it comes back lower, it goes back to the dealer.

 

I think that if you buy a book in a store or convention, you have already agreed with sellers grading. With the exeption that there is undisclosed restoration, something is missing (pieces from interior pages, value stamps etc) or that there is a huge gap between sellers grade vs CGC. (hmm... maybe three or more notches? usually in these cases there are some hidden flaws)

 

I think this somewhat applies even if you buy books from ebay , if you disagree with grading, you return them. If you keep them and then send them to cgc and they graded worse than expected, basically both you and the seller disagreed with CGC, so why seller should be responsible?

 

Maybe it would be best to ask about sellers return policy before sending books for CGC grading.

 

[Bugaboo-migration]

I think if you are buying the book in person, then when you purchase it, you are "agreeing" with the grade the dealer has given the book and must accept responsibility yourself. This is assuming the book doesn't come back restored.

 

When buying books over the internet, you should request large scans of the front and back cover if you are not familiar with the seller and their grading. Nobody is a hundred percent consistent in their grading, so being off a little is forgivable. However, if you receive the book and it's blatantly misgraded by more than a couple of notches, then a reputable seller should take responsability and refund your money.

 

In the example you gave, the book could theoretically have been an accurately graded 9.0 book.

 

The dealer simply being a notch too high and cgc possibly being a notch too low for it. That is certainly within the bounds of "grading being subjective" and the seller really couldn't be held at too much fault. This is just one of the risks of buying high grade raw books. Sometimes you win....sometimes you lose.

[Bugaboo-migration]

If you keep them and then send them to cgc and they graded worse than expected, basically both you and the seller disagreed with CGC, so why seller should be responsible?

Excellent point.

[aardvark88]

Depends if the dealer offered any type of guarantee that the book would be Cgc 9.2 or just graded per Overstreet 9.2. The onus is on the buyer to use his brain before shelling out the cash to determine his own grade on the comic. Cgc grading strictness/harshness fluctuates week to week depending on the gravity of the full moon.

 

What about the retail price side of the equation? I'd be upset if the dealer charged me 2x nm guide & the funny book came back cgc 8.5. Partial refund in that case or let the buyer beware?

[garthgantu]

Yeah, I'm with Odin on this one... if the seller actually guarantees that the book will come back from CGC within some range of seller's estimated grade, and it doesn't, then that's pretty straightforward. Otherwise, the buyer should beware, simple as that.

[Mushroom]

Buy the book not the label. If at the time of buying the raw book the buyer was happy with the transaction then that should be that. Unless there is undisclosed restoration...the buyer has had the chance to look at and handle the book.

 

To be honest....some cgc books with their printers flaws etc that are graded 9.4, 9.6 etc are worth less to me in eye appeal than a solid 8.5.

 

Why buy a raw book in person and then get it slabbed? I buy CGC's because it gives a high level of protection against unscrupulous dealers. If the raw book is being purchased and then slabbed for flipping purposes then the buyer is trying to beat the dealer at his own game and using CGC as a means of protection if he/she got it wrong. In the case of flipping...well let the buyer beware.

 

This is just MHO.

 

 

[DiceX]

It depends.

How about this type of situation...

Seller puts a book on eBay, loudly beating the CGC drum and claims it's "9.2 or better".

Bidding gets heavy and the auction closes at a very high price for the seller.

Perhaps even getting into the price of a slabbed 9.0 to 9.2 book.

The book arrives and it does not match the brief description given by the seller.

(Hmmm. Perhaps the seller says the corners are sharp, and they are not... )

The buyer figures at best the book is 9.0 and CGC would grade it no better than an 8.5.

 

Perhaps then, the seller thinks differently and tells the bidder to send it to CGC and if it grades less than 9.0, he would give a partial refund.

 

This type of thing *could* happen.

[NoImSpartacus]

Great incide given by each response. 5 Stars to all. Good collecting, Jeff

[ninanina]

It depends.

How about this type of situation...

Seller puts a book on eBay, loudly beating the CGC drum and claims it's "9.2 or better".

Bidding gets heavy and the auction closes at a very high price for the seller.

Perhaps even getting into the price of a slabbed 9.0 to 9.2 book.

The book arrives and it does not match the brief description given by the seller.

(Hmmm. Perhaps the seller says the corners are sharp, and they are not... )

The buyer figures at best the book is 9.0 and CGC would grade it no better than an 8.5.

 

Perhaps then, the seller thinks differently and tells the bidder to send it to CGC and if it grades less than 9.0, he would give a partial refund.

 

This type of thing *could* happen.

 

When you buy on e-bay, you take your chances. If the bidding gets heavy, you do have a choice of backing off at that time.

 

Do raw 9.2's sell for multiples of guide on e-bay?

[uclapeterg]

I basically agree with what everyone said. A difference between 8.5-9.2 is not THAT significant. If a book comes back restored (and the dealer claimed to be unrestored), then I think you really have the right for a refund.

 

But I'm not so sure about the couple of notches question. Is your own grading or your ability to look for flaws really so bad that it would come to that? I buy books with flaws I can stand no matter if CGC grades down for them or not.

[PovertyRow]

Buying a comic entails two entities: buyer and seller. The seller is trying to get a profit and the buyer is trying to get a deal. No difference between these two. Both are looking out for themselves. Usually, both sides are satisfied with what they got. Sometimes, as in this question, there is a perceived lop-sidedness. Well, when two entities enter into a deal, it can go one of three ways: 1) both happy 2) seller happy buyer sad 3) buyer happy seller sad. Usually it is going to be 3 (seller happy buyer sad) simply because the seller has had more time with the book to examine it and better light to examine it under. This is why it is important to NOT feel well-equipped simply because you have a price guide and even a grading guide. You have to really hold/examine a LOT of books before you start being confident in your assessment. You really should experiment with restoring junk books with any technique you can think of just to see the end result. Is this a lot of work? Yes. But if comics are something you are really interested in then it is fun work and you will be a much better buyer for it.

 

As far as what to do if a sold NM comes back from GCG as a VF? First make all notes you have observed BEFORE you send the book to CGC. Then call CGC after you get the lesser grade back. Get the full grader notes and compare to yours. Learn from it. (ALL first time or infrequent CGC submittors should make detailled notes on what they see and then compare with the CGC notes - even if the grades match.)

 

As far as trying to return the book? It depends, of course, on the dealer. They may welcome a CGC slabbed VF over a raw NM knowing that the slab may bring them more money. Or they may just feel bad things were off and refund you. Either way you are probably going to be out your CGC/shipping fees. But that would be an inexpensive lesson.

 

I tend to agree with the majority. Putting responsibility on the seller and absolving yourself of responsibility won't cut it. If you enter into this "hobby" (silly word) it is up to you to educate yourself.

 

And yes if you buy a book at VF and it comes back from CGC as F, you shouldn't decide you are deserved a refund for the difference unless you are willing to pay the dealer the difference when a F priced book comes back VF from CGC. This is what knowing how to grade and do a restoration check is about.

 

Last thing - CGC is not the final word on grade. As has been seen many times, resubs can get differing grades. Were CGC the absolute final word, then a split second before the final grade was determined, top members of the state and federal department of paper grading would have certified it to be dead on balls accurate.