Dad&Son's Pressing Project ( follow up to Joeypost's project )

[Sid]

I personally have never seen before and after pics so yes to me it was sort of entertaining. I hear about pressing, and it was nice to see how it was done, even crudely by a non-pro.

 

As for your extreme analogy, I was referring to that I have never neen anyone suffer or have health issues from a pressed book, but have heard of people dying from steroid abuse, so yes I thought it was pretty extreme comparison.

 

Nik, you're still missing my point. I was comparing the results of the enhancement appearence. It would be like taking a before and after picture of a skinny guy who uses steroids and then being amazed that he got bigger.

 

I never talked about "evils", "health", or "death", so maybe if you'd quit adding imagined suppositions to my thoughts, it'd make more sense.

This thread obviously serves no purpose to you, why are you here pointing that out? I got it after the first lines and I think at least 3 or 4 people answered why everyone is 'wowed.' It is informative to me, because unlike your highness, I had never seen what a difference amateur pressing can make, let alone professional. Now just lay off and let me enjoy these 'experiments' without getting annoyed at the all knowing explaining what pressing something does.

 

With all due respect, and in my personal opinion, your response to Scheradon was out of line, as were some others as well. He was not being condescending or seeking to insult anyone. He made an analogy. Some will agree, some will disagree - depending upon your own individual interpretation.

 

The fact is that the examples in this thread have been repeated multiple times in other threads, including one that was live when this one started. Perhaps some newbies haven't seen those. That is certainly possible and to be expected. But it does not merit a response like above.

 

I don't think it was out of line at all. The fact is that people chimed in about why they felt this was "entertaining" or educational and yet he soldiers on about his agenda. I mean, if you can't get anything out of the thread aside from making snide comments, then you should either A) stay out or B) shut up and keep it to yourself. I'm new here and I definately don't want to form any character judgements but it does get irritating when it feels like me 'a newbie' or 'someone not in the know' is being looked down on for not being as educated and every time someone does attempt to actually show something physical there is that one guy to poke at it.

 

Scheradon hopefully knows I didn't mean to insult or 'push his button.' Honestly I think if NOD did more of these kind of examples instead of showing slab scans it'd be better for somebody like me. I understand your or Scheradon's point about "why is it so hard to understand what pressing can do?" but honestly I had never actually seen examples and it is suprising to me what it can do. If anything it has opened my eyes a bit more to why people consider pressing to be restoration and if this thread/joeypost's thread was worth anything then it served it's purpose for me.

 

So, I do want to apologize to Scheradon, I didn't mean to come off like a which now re-reading I did but I'm not that tactful with words.

[Sid]

I will .. it's just been a hell week at the office so I'll try to gather my things.. dust myself off and select a few candidates for this evening's events. I'll try to do some books that are 9.0ish and take close ups as best as I can.

 

[Sid]

Isnt Spongebob on now

 

WTF

 

I seriously hope you don't watch that...

I dont watch it because I dont have cable

 

 

btw Spongebob rocks, I have the DVDs.

[JoeRod]

When I buy a CGC graded book, I know what I'm getting. Rather than taking the chance in buying from someone on e-bay for example. (scans don't always show everything)

 

Is it just me, or does it seem some people just don't want to see books get pressed?

I try to grade my books in comparison to some cgc graded books I have, because everyone wants strictly graded books. CGC doesn't consider pressing as restoration if done correctly. Should I?

Just a thought I had.

 

Oh, and by the way... If I was to sell anything that I know had been pressed, I would disclose it. I'm a big believer in disclosure.

Disclosure = Honesty

[mica]

Go for it Paul

Try to pay attention this time.

[MrBedrock]

re: state of preservation vs. grade

 

There is definitely a distinction between the two.

 

A grade is determined by counting STRUCTURAL defects and, through a formula, arriving at a numerical or nomenclature designation which (based on the standards of the hobby) best describes the item being graded.

 

The state of preservation takes many more things into consideration. How an item was handled, how an item was stored, and what kind of environment the item was exposed to.

 

Grading of structural defects cannot take into account some preservation issues, such as paper quality (browning and/or brittling due to exposure), ink reflectivity, color loss or fading. CGC assigns a Page Quality notation, essentially grading the pages seperately. This page quality designation does affect the grade, but to what extent is unknown. There is no way to grade how much gloss a book has. There is no way to grade how rich the colors are on a book in relation to other copies of the same book. These are just some examples.

 

Where grade and state of preservation do overlap is in the area of handling and storage. The defects that affect the structural grade are THE SAME defects that determine the structural state of preservation. They are one and the same. If a book was dinged in handling, that ding counts of in grade. If the book got a crease because it was stored improperly, that crease affects the grade.

 

If a structural defect can be removed undetected, at that point there is no defect. Thus not only is the grade improved, but the state of preservation as well. The only monkeywrench would be if, in removing the defect, there was a change in paper quality, ink reflectivity, or color (but that would be detectable).

[ArAich]

I will .. it's just been a hell week at the office so I'll try to gather my things.. dust myself off and select a few candidates for this evening's events. I'll try to do some books that are 9.0ish and take close ups as best as I can.

 

 

Treat yourself to a crabby patty....

[Sid]

re: state of preservation vs. grade

 

There is definitely a distinction between the two.

 

A grade is determined by counting STRUCTURAL defects and, through a formula, arriving at a numerical or nomenclature designation which (based on the standards of the hobby) best describes the item being graded.

 

The state of preservation takes many more things into consideration. How an item was handled, how an item was stored, and what kind of environment the item was exposed to.

 

Grading of structural defects cannot take into account some preservation issues, such as paper quality (browning and/or brittling due to exposure), ink reflectivity, color loss or fading. CGC assigns a Page Quality notation, essentially grading the pages seperately. This page quality designation does affect the grade, but to what extent is unknown. There is no way to grade how much gloss a book has. There is no way to grade how rich the colors are on a book in relation to other copies of the same book. These are just some examples.

 

Where grade and state of preservation do overlap is in the area of handling and storage. The defects that affect the structural grade are THE SAME defects that determine the structural state of preservation. They are one and the same. If a book was dinged in handling, that ding counts of in grade. If the book got a crease because it was stored improperly, that crease affects the grade.

 

If a structural defect can be removed undetected, at that point there is no defect. Thus not only is the grade improved, but the state of preservation as well. The only monkeywrench would be if, in removing the defect, there was a change in paper quality, ink reflectivity, or color (but that would be detectable).

 

 

Except I believe page quality effects book only above 9.8. I disagree anything should even be considered in the 'Mint' grade range with anything less then WHITE pages but

 

I cringe at the thought of a 9.4 book with tan pages... and I believe they do exist.

[joker-fish]

so what do you guys REALLY think of pressing?

[rodan57]

I am worried that some collectors/dealers will think that pressing is easy and destroy some very nice books.

 

Dennis

[awe4one]

I am worried that some collectors/dealers will think that pressing is easy and destroy some very nice books.

 

We'll that's been illustrated here to a point. The GS Werewolf example added creases near the bottom edge of the spine...

 

One of my concerns about pressing has been that collectors would try the "home garage" method and subsequently damage perfectly good books. There is apparently a world of skill level involved between professional pressing and amateur flattening of comics. What we saw with this example illustrates how NOT to press a comic...

 

And really...it's all academic unless methods of pressing are revealed. I fear some will see threads such as this and think they can pull the iron out and have a go...and destroy some comics in the process. What would be interesting is what is used in the process to do an adequate job. At least it would give people inclined to experiment a basis and not needlessly screw-up their comics...

 

Jim

[Dad&Son-migration]

I am worried that some collectors/dealers will think that pressing is easy and destroy some very nice books.

 

We'll that's been illustrated here to a point. The GS Werewolf example added creases near the bottom edge of the spine...

 

One of my concerns about pressing has been that collectors would try the "home garage" method and subsequently damage perfectly good books. There is apparently a world of skill level involved between professional pressing and amateur flattening of comics. What we saw with this example illustrates how NOT to press a comic...

 

And really...it's all academic unless methods of pressing are revealed. I fear some will see threads such as this and think they can pull the iron out and have a go...and destroy some comics in the process. What would be interesting is what is used in the process to do an adequate job. At least it would give people inclined to experiment a basis and not needlessly screw-up their comics...

 

Jim

 

I've seen so many uneducated misconceptions from the anti-press gang in this, and Joey's thread, that I have decided not even to bother shedding light on the "how it's done" ... I'll simply show the before and after shots...

 

The crease created is from angle and light ...obviously the before and after pics aren't at the exact angle as it was tough to replicate that. Also, I did a flat press ( not unlike accelerating years of stacking ) The crease you think you're enlightening everyone to was present before and present after the first run..

 

Jim, your abrasive posts are coming off to people as someone speaking out with an inferiority complex or jealousy issue because you're not prevy to the "how" and "in the know". If someone is stupid enough to pull out an iron (as you eluded to them doing) to do this to prime candidates...then they should pay attention to the information that is trying to be shared from people that practice instead of the whiners. It is very interesting to see the critics of practicing being the ones that are so far off the mark on guessing the process of the practice..

 

 

ok folks...

next book I'm doing is a 9.0 and I will do the "full meal deal" on it and hopefully the camera can pick up on the small spine ticks that are removed and the improvement to the edges

[JoeRod]

[awe4one]

I've seen so many uneducated misconceptions from the anti-press gang in this, and Joey's thread, that I have decided not even to bother shedding light on the "how it's done" ... I'll simply show the before and after shots...

 

That's a rather lame excuse...I thought your intention was to enlighten people?

 

The crease created is from angle and light ...obviously the before and after pics aren't at the exact angle as it was tough to replicate that. Also, I did a flat press ( not unlike accelerating years of stacking ) The crease you think you're enlightening everyone to was present before and present after the first run..

 

The bubble was there...what you've done is flattened it into a rather noticeable crease...

 

Jim, your abrasive posts are coming off to people as someone speaking out with an inferiority complex or jealousy issue because you're not prevy to the "how" and "in the know".

 

That's quite the Freudian leap you've taken there...

 

And for your info...I do know some of the pressing methods. Nothing jealous about it...just pointing out the obvious..bottomline, you've badly pressed the comic...

 

Just showing pressing really isn't doing anyone here any good unless someone, not you apparently since you can't get it right, shows how they safely pressed the comic. That'll stop the "iron" crowd from getting any ideas...

 

If someone is stupid enough to pull out an iron (as you eluded to them doing) to do this to prime candidates...then they should pay attention to the information that is trying to be shared from people that practice instead of the whiners. It is very interesting to see the critics of practicing being the ones that are so far off the mark on guessing the process of the practice..

 

You need to go back to some of the old example pressing threads...irons were used on those. And don't think for a second some collectors, and I bet some here, haven't tried using that same exact method.

 

And you'll find some of the critics here apparently much more knowledgeable than you concerning pressing considering your defense of this botched job...

 

next book I'm doing is a 9.0 and I will do the "full meal deal" on it and hopefully the camera can pick up on the small spine ticks that are removed and the improvement to the edges

 

I hope you get it right this time...

 

Jim

[Dad&Son-migration]

Ok.. here's an attempt to illustrate by using a higher grade book... tought to really show the differences via camera with the flash wanting to go off constantly and the book displaying very minor flaws, so I'll try to point it out with the photos.

 

Before #1 ( the bottom edge creasing below the boy )

 

 

After #1

 

 

Before #2 ( The spin tick above the "A" near the corner and the corner itself, this tick was deeper... although still present.. much more minimized then before. It will be even more reduced with the continuous use of the non-evasive process on the spine.)

 

After #2

 

Before #3 ( the 2 spine ticks above the "S" with the bump in the middle, sorry for the after shot but analyse it close enought to see the straight shadow line and the ticks aren't there as they were much lighter. )

 

After #3

 

[Johnny G]

Ok.. here's an attempt to illustrate by using a higher grade book... tought to really show the differences via camera with the flash wanting to go off constantly and the book displaying very minor flaws, so I'll try to point it out with the photos.

 

Before #1 ( the bottom edge creasing below the boy )

 

 

After #1

 

 

Before #2 ( The spin tick above the "A" near the corner and the corner itself, this tick was deeper... although still present.. much more minimized then before. It will be even more reduced with the continuous use of the non-evasive process on the spine.)

 

After #2

 

Before #3 ( the 2 spine ticks above the "S" with the bump in the middle, sorry for the after shot but analyse it close enought to see the straight shadow line and the ticks aren't there as they were much lighter. )

 

After #3

 

 

very good job Paul...

 

keep doing what you love and let anyone who has a problem with it shove it where the sun don't shine! Well, I guess in some cases the sun apparently shines everywhere!

 

And BTW, I think you hit the nail on the head in your response above

[DeeDee-migration]

Excellent work Paul

[greggy]

You butchered that HOM 197

[Dad&Son-migration]

You butchered that HOM 197

[Dad&Son-migration]

Thanks John!!!!