Mathimatical breakdown of making a living flipping comics

[1Cool]

Buying a collection on ebay and piecing it out on ebay again is a fools errand. The idea of buying one of Neat Stuff's lots and piecing it out on ebay reminds me of a guy on the beach with a metal detector.

 

Comics, maybe. Too many people know the value of comics (and the ones that don't actually think they're worth MORE than they are), so it's difficult to buy a lot cheap enough. Now I have a friend who buys lots of old sports programs on eBay, and parts them out and makes a ton! He buys the lots for about $1 per program, and sells them for $5 ea + $5 shipping (and he pays $2 media mail...I know, he bugs me all the time for not profiting off shipping, but I won't do it...he has 4.7 stars for shipping cost). I don't understand why people pay $5 for one program, but let a lot for $1 ea go by, but they do! He does quite well!

 

His recent purchases:

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...s=25&sort=3

 

Too bad you can't do this with comics.

 

You can and people do it every day. You just have to see something in a set that other people didn't see. I do agree that people who have nice books typically know what they are worth or the comics have been smashed into a box for 20 years and are worth a few bucks. You can't blame the owner since I would know what I had if I took the time to keep a book in great shape for most of my life and decided to sell it.

[Fazybones]

The only problem living in Canada and our fine Canada Postal system is I've never made one cent on any comic book(s) I've sold on e-bay or here.

[october]

Usually its not the selling where you make money, its the buying.

 

Truer words were never spoken. All of my best sales began as best purchases.

[Mr. Zipper]

Man, you guys are fast. I agree with the 15 minute per item estimate. Just considering shipping, here's what I do:

 

Open Selling Manager to see what I have to ship

Grab the comic, sandwich between two cardboard inserts

Tape the inserts together, one piece on each side

Get a Priority box, form it, fill the bottom with packing peanuts

Put sandwiched comic inside, fill the rest with peanuts

Print packing invoice from Selling Manager, sign "Thanks", put in box

Seal box

Weigh box

Print postage label from eBay/PayPal (includes typing in weight, accepting amount, etc)

Cut the label from the page that prints

Tape the label to the box

 

How do you do all of that in 2 minutes?

 

Yup. Add in another 10 minutes with a toddler hanging off you leg who wants to touch everything!

[greggy]

The only problem living in Canada and our fine Canada Postal system is I've never made one cent on any comic book(s) I've sold on e-bay or here.

[Mr. Zipper]

You can and people do it every day. You just have to see something in a set that other people didn't see.

 

True. But what makes or breaks the flipper is **time** and knowledge.

 

Knowing where there are arbitrage opportunities. Knowing the difference between obscure books that are tough in any grade and books that are only worthwhile in super HG.

 

And most importantly time. It takes a LOT of time and energy to scour ebay hour after hour, day after day finding hidden gems for flipping. Ask October. You won't succeed browsing for a few minutes here and there.

[october]

And most importantly time. It takes a LOT of time and energy to scour ebay hour after hour, day after day finding hidden gems for flipping. Ask October. You won't succeed browsing for a few minutes here and there.

 

Selling is VERY time consuming. It's a part time job and, frankly, isn't worth it unless you love what you are doing...and I do. It's fun for me, so I don't mind the time and risk involved. It can be lucrative, but it can be a hassle too. Here are some basic tips that make things a lot easier.

 

1. Deal only in markets that you know cold. Otherwise, be prepared to take losses or break even on books in that market until you do learn it.

 

2. If possible, buy and sell books that you wouldn't mind in your collection, because often times that's where they end up if they don't move.

 

3. Front end the work. Be a discerning, thrifty buyer. It saves a lot of hassle when you go to sell and you also get a rep for very fair prices as a nice little ancillary benefit.

 

4. Like I said before, unless you enjoy the "work" don't even consider flipping. Seriously.

[1Cool]

And most importantly time. It takes a LOT of time and energy to scour ebay hour after hour, day after day finding hidden gems for flipping. Ask October. You won't succeed browsing for a few minutes here and there.

 

Selling is VERY time consuming. It's a part time job and, frankly, isn't worth it unless you love what you are doing...and I do. It's fun for me, so I don't mind the time and risk involved. It can be lucrative, but it can be a hassle too. Here are some basic tips that make things a lot easier.

 

1. Deal only in markets that you know cold. Otherwise, be prepared to take losses or break even on books in that market until you do learn it.

 

2. If possible, buy and sell books that you wouldn't mind in your collection, because often times that's where they end up if they don't move.

 

3. Front end the work. Be a discerning, thrifty buyer. It saves a lot of hassle when you go to sell and you also get a rep for very fair prices as a nice little ancillary benefit.

 

4. Like I said before, unless you enjoy the "work" don't even consider flipping. Seriously.

 

 

October sounds like he has been doing this a lot longer than I have but I have a couple things that have helped me start up.

 

1. Don't leave any stone uncovered. Try selling to guys at the gym if you know he collects and don't be afraid to ask a frequent buyer if they want to buy from you direct rather than going through E-bay. Frequent buyers are all around you.

 

2. Always think - who am I going to sell this to. Is it a obsure item or a cool cover that CGC people tend to like or does Bob in accounting like Bronze Batman's. E-Bay is usually my last option in selling a book unless I know it will get a bunch more money.

 

3. Just like in poker - don't get pot committed without knowing it will sell. I have an opportunity to buy a 1967 Mustang Coupe with 66,000 miles in cherry condition for $15,000. Had to back out because this would have killed me if it doesn't sell for at least $18,000 and I don't have a buyer lined up.

 

4. Don't be afraid to ask people who have done it for advice. I am a very small fish in a very large ocean but every big fish had to start somewhere.

 

5. Last but most important to me - try to be fair and always honest in every transaction. I am not a perfect grader but I have no problem refunding some money make a buyer feel satisfied. Nothing worse than buying and feeling like you got taken.

 

Thanks for all the great input on this post

[KingOfRulers]

Flipping is what I do to get whatever cash I have. I've been doing it essentially for as long as I've been into comics. It started out as just selling some books that I didn't want, so I could afford books I did want. Now, it's a little more business oriented. Still, the same concept though.

 

I've been pretty successful at it. But it is difficult to do. Since eBay is of course the place with the most books, that's where most of the searching is. Unfortunately, most people on eBay cannot grade. It is VERY frustrating. Bad graders make up probably 98% of auctions. Also, another obstacle to flipping are the things that sellers get hit with, such as paypal fees and eBay fees. Also, other things that make it tough to net a profit are things like bags and boards which add at least another 12-15 cents per book. If you use Mytlies and fullbacks, that's another 50 cents per book. Also shipping supplies--however I use newspaper because it's cheap and I think it works perfectly.

 

The best way to do it is to find a collection. But with all of the competition from dealers who advertise in OS, it will be tough. I was so desperate one time, that when I had a mind numbing job going from door to door for an environmental group I actually took my own fliers with me saying that I buy collections. Sadly nothing came of it.

[Kramerica]

I will first have to say that its been slow at work and this leads me to thinking outside the box. And the following will definetely make my name a contradiction but here it is.

 

If you assume that it takes about 15 minutes to scan, post, package & ship each auction on e-bay then you can do 160 auctions per typical work week. If you average around $4 pure profit per auction and assuming that each auction does sell, then you have made $33,280 in profits. Of course you would need a large supply of comics that would be "flippable" without spending hours searching through other auctions.

 

My conclusion is that it is possible to live on flipping comics but thats a lot of work for $30,000. Anyone have anything to add to the equation??

 

About the same with me. I'm at work right now so my numbers aren't exact: I did $92,000 or so on Ebay and private sales in 2005. After factoring in cost of flippables (including CGC fees), shipping supplies, Ebay and Paypal fees, ESnipe fees, image hosting fees and USPS the number was down to $42,000 or so. Then the IRS took about 7 grand. So, working 70-80 hour weeks I just cleared about $35,000. So, it's there if you want it but so is a life that doesn't revolve around spending your Sundays getting 200+ auctions ready and working from home which begins to bug.

[joeypost]

Man, you guys are fast. I agree with the 15 minute per item estimate. Just considering shipping, here's what I do:

 

Open Selling Manager to see what I have to ship

Grab the comic, sandwich between two cardboard inserts

Tape the inserts together, one piece on each side

Get a Priority box, form it, fill the bottom with packing peanuts

Put sandwiched comic inside, fill the rest with peanuts

Print packing invoice from Selling Manager, sign "Thanks", put in box

Seal box

Weigh box

Print postage label from eBay/PayPal (includes typing in weight, accepting amount, etc)

Cut the label from the page that prints

Tape the label to the box

 

How do you do all of that in 2 minutes?

 

Multiply that by 2 or 3X if you are selling bulk lots. You have to sandwich the books between sturdy cardboard, put extra cardboard on the ends of the Priority flat rate boxes to keep the ends from caving in if the box is dropped. Add the additional padding on the sides (either cut foam or newspaper works for me). Taping them up and printing the label. Then their is the time spent to and from the PO.

 

Yup. Add in another 10 minutes with a toddler hanging off you leg who wants to touch everything!

[1Cool]

I will first have to say that its been slow at work and this leads me to thinking outside the box. And the following will definetely make my name a contradiction but here it is.

 

If you assume that it takes about 15 minutes to scan, post, package & ship each auction on e-bay then you can do 160 auctions per typical work week. If you average around $4 pure profit per auction and assuming that each auction does sell, then you have made $33,280 in profits. Of course you would need a large supply of comics that would be "flippable" without spending hours searching through other auctions.

 

My conclusion is that it is possible to live on flipping comics but thats a lot of work for $30,000. Anyone have anything to add to the equation??

 

About the same with me. I'm at work right now so my numbers aren't exact: I did $92,000 or so on Ebay and private sales in 2005. After factoring in cost of flippables (including CGC fees), shipping supplies, Ebay and Paypal fees, ESnipe fees, image hosting fees and USPS the number was down to $42,000 or so. Then the IRS took about 7 grand. So, working 70-80 hour weeks I just cleared about $35,000. So, it's there if you want it but so is a life that doesn't revolve around spending your Sundays getting 200+ auctions ready and working from home which begins to bug.

 

How does the IRS track your sales? Does it work on the honor program and you have to pay on the $42,000 you cleared? Always wondered how that worked. Paying for your own insurance would be the worst part of the deal.

[whomerjay]

 

My conclusion is that it is possible to live on flipping comics but thats a lot of work for $30,000. Anyone have anything to add to the equation??

 

 

You are so right. What is funny is that everyone reading this either knows it or deep down suspects it (and denies it) but are compelled to flip anyway.

 

Unless you deal mostly in >$100, relatively hot books, and you can sell them with an ~50% mark-up, you're making squat per hour. Or have a tremendous rate of flipping.

[sckao]

 

My conclusion is that it is possible to live on flipping comics but thats a lot of work for $30,000. Anyone have anything to add to the equation??

 

 

You are so right. What is funny is that everyone reading this either knows it or deep down suspects it (and denies it) but are compelled to flip anyway.

 

Unless you deal mostly in >$100, relatively hot books, and you can sell them with an ~50% mark-up, you're making squat per hour. Or have a tremendous rate of flipping.

 

I don't see it so much as flipping as "Comic book ADD"

 

There's always some other book you want for your collection which makes you want to cannibalize your current collection to get it. (As opposed to shelling out money for your hobby that you make from your full time job/disposable income.)

 

Another major reason for flipping is that the comic is currently "HOT" and will probably not be so hot after a specific time period.

 

I'd hazard that most of the money spent flipping is actually going back into the hobby to buy other books.

 

Most of us don't rely on comics/eBay for our full income and if we do, it's probably only because we're in-between jobs.

[Kramerica]

I will first have to say that its been slow at work and this leads me to thinking outside the box. And the following will definetely make my name a contradiction but here it is.

 

If you assume that it takes about 15 minutes to scan, post, package & ship each auction on e-bay then you can do 160 auctions per typical work week. If you average around $4 pure profit per auction and assuming that each auction does sell, then you have made $33,280 in profits. Of course you would need a large supply of comics that would be "flippable" without spending hours searching through other auctions.

 

My conclusion is that it is possible to live on flipping comics but thats a lot of work for $30,000. Anyone have anything to add to the equation??

 

About the same with me. I'm at work right now so my numbers aren't exact: I did $92,000 or so on Ebay and private sales in 2005. After factoring in cost of flippables (including CGC fees), shipping supplies, Ebay and Paypal fees, ESnipe fees, image hosting fees and USPS the number was down to $42,000 or so. Then the IRS took about 7 grand. So, working 70-80 hour weeks I just cleared about $35,000. So, it's there if you want it but so is a life that doesn't revolve around spending your Sundays getting 200+ auctions ready and working from home which begins to bug.

 

How does the IRS track your sales? Does it work on the honor program and you have to

[Mr. Zipper]

How does the IRS track your sales? Does it work on the honor program and you have to pay on the $42,000 you cleared? Always wondered how that worked. Paying for your own insurance would be the worst part of the deal.

 

I would presume that someone with $92K in revenue is filing as a small business and you keep receipts and claim your revenue. You can't just move that amount of money without the IRS possibly noticing. The upside is I would also presume that you can write off ebay/paypal and other fees as a business expense.

[jediknight]

This seller just won two Hulk 181 9.4s over the last few months one for $2000 and the other for $2300-2400. Now he is flipping one of these for 3.2k. If he makes 12 Franklins on this Hulk 181 then I will believe you can make big bucks flipping.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Hulk-181-CGC-9-4-1st...1QQcmdZViewItem

[sckao]

This seller just won two Hulk 181 9.4s over the last few months one for $2000 and the other for $2300-2400. Now he is flipping one of these for 3.2k. If he makes 12 Franklins on this Hulk 181 then I will believe you can make big bucks flipping.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Hulk-181-CGC-9-4-1st...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

I know him actually. He's got an incredible amount of stuff.

 

Figure about $200 for eBay and Paypal fees actually.

[tth2]

I will first have to say that its been slow at work and this leads me to thinking outside the box. And the following will definetely make my name a contradiction but here it is.

 

If you assume that it takes about 15 minutes to scan, post, package & ship each auction on e-bay then you can do 160 auctions per typical work week. If you average around $4 pure profit per auction and assuming that each auction does sell, then you have made $33,280 in profits. Of course you would need a large supply of comics that would be "flippable" without spending hours searching through other auctions.

 

My conclusion is that it is possible to live on flipping comics but thats a lot of work for $30,000. Anyone have anything to add to the equation??

 

About the same with me. I'm at work right now so my numbers aren't exact: I did $92,000 or so on Ebay and private sales in 2005. After factoring in cost of flippables (including CGC fees), shipping supplies, Ebay and Paypal fees, ESnipe fees, image hosting fees and USPS the number was down to $42,000 or so. Then the IRS took about 7 grand. So, working 70-80 hour weeks I just cleared about $35,000. So, it's there if you want it but so is a life that doesn't revolve around spending your Sundays getting 200+ auctions ready and working from home which begins to bug.

I'm seeing people use the concepts of revenue and net income interchangeably in this thread, which is not correct. When you say you did $92,000 on eBay, was that gross sales (i.e., total sales price of the books you sold) or profit on the books after taking into account the cost of the books? Then you have to factor in the various costs you mention, and you also have to factor in the amount of time you owned the books being sold. If you bought a book for $2 10 years ago and sold it for $4 today, that 100% profit sounds great until you factor in the time value of the original $2.

[1Cool]

How does the IRS track your sales? Does it work on the honor program and you have to pay on the $42,000 you cleared? Always wondered how that worked. Paying for your own insurance would be the worst part of the deal.

 

I would presume that someone with $92K in revenue is filing as a small business and you keep receipts and claim your revenue. You can't just move that amount of money without the IRS possibly noticing. The upside is I would also presume that you can write off ebay/paypal and other fees as a business expense.

 

I don't think he would have to "move" very much at one time. His Paypal account would have constant in/outs but his transfers into his bank account would probably be fairly minor each month. I'm just wondering if the IRS gets your Paypal receipts if you bring in 92K in transactions.