lou_fine

I think this scenario as you have laid out here really only comes into play when you have the odd random HG book that comes in and takes out your current "Highest Graded Copy". This is not the same situation here as you have an uber HG GA OO collection (i.e. an once in a lifetime generational collection) that will be taking out not only your current highest graded copy, but also many many other highest graded copies at the same time. As a result, I believe the pricing scenario which you have laid out in your post above will not be the one that comes into play here. In addition, the other point to remember is that if your current highest graded copy is not and was not going to be coming to market anytime soon, it is actually kind of irrelevant to the pricing valuation going forwards anyways. How do you even know that your copy is worth $5K in the first place if it is the highest copy and hasn't actually come to market to test this estimated price point of yours. Especially true if there have also been no other close equivalent graded copies to come to market recently to give you a valid estimate in the first place. For example, how do we really know how much a HG copy of All-American 61 with the classic Solomon Grundy cover is really worth. So, even if the Promise Copy is only the second highest graded copy out there, this auction here will finally provide some kind of real benchmark after all this time for the marketplace to give us some idea as to its true value. Notwithstanding CL which hides everything, it looks like the highest graded copy of AA 61 to come to public market and easily trackable is the HA CGC 7.5 graded copy that sold for $4,780 back in 2011 and then resold for $27,750 on CC for $27,750 in 2018, after they had sold a different CGC 7.5 copy for $4,527 back in 2013. So, only 2 CGC 7.5 graded copies sold in the past 10 years with a total of 3 sales which makes it kind of hard for the owners of the CGC 9.8 highest graded copy, the owners of the slightly lower graded copies at CGC 9.4, 9.2, and 8.5; or heck even the owners of still HG raw copies to figure out what their copies are truly worth in today's hyper red hot marketplace. So, if I was the owner of any of these copies, I would actually be ecstatic and waiting impatiently for this auction to take place hoping for the highest dollar possible at the same time This is actually a big unexpected positive because there's finally going to be an auction that's going to help acclerate my book into the next pricing level, without me having to sell my own personal HG copy in order to do that. So, with the auctioning off of this historic and hobby place changing Promise Collection, it's actually quite possible that the pricing scenario which you laid out above might actually play out quite differently and possibly even in your favor here. Is it possible that your current highest graded copy might actually be worth either slightly less or slightly more than your $5K price point since it has not come to market recently, or for any other closely graded copies? So, instead of the Promise Copy selling for $6,500 as per your scenario above, it's actually quite possible that it might even sell for $8K, and in reality pull your now 2nd highest graded copy above the $5K price point that you thought it was worth when it was the then highest graded copy. Who really knows, but you can't rule out this possibility also, and even more so, is your copy even relevant if you was not even intending to sell it anytime soon in the first place anyways? What you have now is a even higher sale confirming the actual value of your copy which if history has shown us, will usually only continue to move upwards from there. This scenario which I laid out for the CGC 9.6 graded copy of AA 61, I believe, will also play out the same way for a lot of other HG GA in-demand books (either raw or slabbed) that have not come to market recently because they have been locked away in private collections for decades. Bottom-line: I strongly believe this Promise Collection is going to be a big win-win for all GA collectors, even the ones that will be losing their former "highest graded copy" status (unless you was planning to sell it soon) because the price you will receive eventually for your book when it does come time for you to sell it will most likely be markedly higher with the discovery and release of this Promise Collection than it would have been without it.

Are you saying that you brough some Church books from Chuckles at 2/3 of guide (i.e. two thirds guide) or do you mean that you brought them at a multiple of 2 to 3 times guide which seems to be much more likely?

So, the storage unit has an attic installed in there where the books were locked away for the past 70+ years?

Did you check the Grader's Notes to see the possible reason(s) why, especially since the notes are supposedly free of charge if you are the submittor?

That's one of the big problems with having your books encased in those huge bulky slabs as they take up far too much storage space. Much better to simply have them in beautiful glossy mylar bags where your big safety deposit can probably hold over 100 of those GA books.

Why.........was you being naughty again? Nope, still open as far as I can tell here, although it probably should be locked and flushed based upon the last few posts there:

So, if this thread is wiped clean by tomorrow and we don't see you posting here forever more, we'll at least know the exact reason why.

wait a minute, just what are you implying here???? Well then, I guess you must be pretty naughty if you aren't getting your presents every Christmas, candies from the Easter Bunny , and money under your pillow from the Tooth Fairy.

I'm not seeing it listed in this upcoming auction when I do a search on the Heritage June Auction site. It looks like a few books maybe were pulled back for a future auction?? Well, if you scroll down to the bottom of the attached link for this Auction Preview, it clearly states that the bidding starts on May 28 and the auction dates are from June 17th to the 19th. I am sure they will have all of these already posted Promise Collection books listed properly well before the May 28th bidding start date.

That's the one. Absolutely gorgeous book. I would love to see the 9.8 and/or the Church book, if they aren't the same book. And I cannot wait to see what this book sells for--this one, at least, earned its grade. Even with a CGC 9.8 graded copy out there, it's really irrelevant because that copy (whether it be the Church copy or not) has never been in the public marketplace before as far as I am aware and also not going to be anytime soon. As a result, I see this seconded highest graded Promise Collection copy of AA 61 being able to hit into the 6-figures very early on in this upcoming auction here.

Decided to take a quick flashback to the big Jon Berk Auction thread to see what the ambiance was like in that thread there from 2017. Looks like it was actually 175 pages, with virtually all of the front end of the thread being a rather joyful and happy sharing of Berk's wonderful and magnificant collection, especially with respect to the earlier HTF GA books whether they were in low grade condition or even in restored condition. Don't have time to reread everything, but I clearly don't remember any controversy or the same angst about the possibility of overgraded books that we seem to be seeing in this thread here so far. In fact, the only time that grading came into question was towards the end of the thread after the auction was already over and the issue then was with respect to the books from the Jon Berk Collection being UNDERGRADED, as opposed to being overgraded. Especially when dealers like Steve Ritter and his Worldwide company by then were already doing either the straight resub or CPR on the books for higher grades and then reselling them for higher dollars. Surprisingly, we even saw long time boardies like @buttock and not so surprisingly, the usual CGC acolyte juice drinkers who always hold the viewpoint that CGC can do no wrong actually take the slant in that particular case there, that it only made perfect business sense for CGC to have undergraded the Berk collection: I guess this time it makes perfect business sense for CGC to lean the other way since it's really "all within the family".

Do you also believe that 5G is responsible for Covid? I would assume the answer is "Yes" for you if you actually believe the Promise Collection books are going through the CCS and CGC processes and being given the same treatment in terms of turnaround times and pricing as all of the other regular submittors. If so, then I guess you must also believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy.

You are an even worse businessman than Lou_Fine! Says the man who is happily willing to leave easy money on the table for the next person to pick up.

You really think that was because of CC and not Jon? No, not CC because in this case here, it was most likely really more Jon (long time old school comic book collector) working in conjunction with Fishler (long time old school comic book dealer). The auction house will always do what the consignor wants, but often times the consignor will choose the auction house and the people there where he feels they speak the same language and can easily understand one another, especially if they have had past dealings going back decades.

The Promise books are being auctioned off on Heritage, not Comiclink. All of them will go up on the floor for live bidding, where they will go up sequentially so you won't be trying to juggle multiple extended bids at the same time. Even any that might be put into the internet-only last day will still get the benefit of live bidding. How is that different from CC's extended bidding? Not sure if you ever participated in a CC Event Auction with the multiple 3-minute extended bidding time periods, but it's completely different from the usual live sequential auction format that Heritage uses. With the sequential one and done format before moving onto the next lot, you don't actually have that much time to decide if you are going to bump the bid up to the next increment or not. I remember in the Jon Berk auction, every single lot that I won took over 10 mintues of actual extended bidding time and the one lot that I really went after took almost 30 minutes of actual extended bidding time. For a smaller time player like me and possibly others who can't throw around 6-figures or even 5-figures for a single comic book, these 3-minute extended bidding time periods gives you lots of time to mull over your decision to raise the bid up to the next increment or not, and something which the HA sequential format does not afford you.

I guess it's easy to tell who here has never worked in the private sector. So, I guess you saying that those who work in the private sector don't have a sense of humor at all.

With me always loving this all-time GA classic cover , I definitely don't really see much wrong at all with your copy of All-American 61 here.

Well, from checking on the CGC serial number here, it would appear that you submitted this book in for grading just last year and sadly, made the classic mistake of NOT playing the game according to CGC's rules and got punished for it accordingly. After all, with Matt it's all about those tiny near invisible NCB ticks and creases (i.e. additional revenue generating defects) which you can see only with the book held up at a certain angle to the light which he hammered, as opposed to those horrid looking misaligned off-centered (i.e. non-additional revenue generating defects) books which you could see clear across the convention floor which he gave a free pass to. With Matt now firmly in charge of CGC grading since he moved over from the CCS side of the operations back in 2016, if you don't at least send your book in for a pre-screen for pressing at a minimum (for an additional fee of course ), you and your book will be taken out behind the woodshed and be given your just and deserved dues accordingly upon grading.

I imagine you must be referring to this absolutely gorgeous and stunning All-American 61 book here, with the classic Solomon Grundy cover: https://comics.ha.com/itm/miscellaneous/all-american-comics-61-the-promise-collection-pedigree-dc-1944-cgc-nm-96-off-white-to-white-pages/p/7244-175041.s?ic10=AllCategoriesResults-ItemImageDesc-05051 Makes me wonder who's the lucky guy (was it Veryzl ) that has the CGC 9.8 graded copy stashed away into their own private personal collection and if it's the Edgar Church copy of All-American 61?

If there are any, they will most likely be encased in shiny new CGC 9.0 to CGC 9.4 Pedigree slabbed holders though.

Ummmm..................I believe you are not living in the real world here and probably in some kind of idealistic dream world if you actually believe this collection of books is sitting parked at the end of the line behind all of the other books that CCS and CGC received for pressing and grading prior to getting these books in from the Promise Collection here. If anything, these books will be both pressed and graded according to the rollout schedule which Heritage wants, as opposed to being done based upon CCS's and CGC's schedule. In fact, I actually believe there is a very very strong chance here that the books posted so far from the Promise Collection here did not even follow the standard operational process that all other regular books would have taken when submitted into CCS and CGC for processing, and were actually given their own unique processing flow.

Yes, indeed!!!

And that fact is that the virgin unpressed 9.4 likely had a plump rounded spine, which has now been pressed flat in the 9.6 version. Many collectors (at least those who have been around long enough to see those unicorns) would prefer the former to the latter. Are the two of you also one of these grumpy old men from way back in the day before Heritage arrived on the scene back in 2002 and before Matt took over the grading side of the business back in 2016? If so, it's no longer the Stone Ages as we are now into the 21st century where it's all about not only the square corners, but also flat, flat, flat like a tasty yummy pancake. So, if you even dare to turn in one of those co-called unicorns of yours with the plump rounded spines, just know that you and your book will be taken out behind the woodshed and given your just and deserved dues upon being graded.

I guess it's really a case of to each, their own, but personally I would have much prefer the books were going through CC as opposed to HA. Any bets that if the books were going through CC, there would be far far fewer cases of "damaged" books encased in what are rather obviously and sometimes blatantly overgraded holders. Think back to the big Jon Berk Auction on CC back in 2017 when we had this wonderful 150+ page "group hug" thread on these very same boards here and as far as I can remember, not a single post about possibly overgraded books while the auction was taking place. Of course, no real incentive there for CGC since CC is a competitor to their very own affiliated auction house. As for an auction catalog, CC also produces one for their Event Auctions like the one they did for the Jon Berk Auction, but definitely not as nicely laid out and formated like the one from Heritage. As for their auction listing descriptions, they are most definitely the worst by far as in most cases, they just simply list the title, grade, PQ, CGC label notes, and then sort of expect the book to sell itself after that. Definitely not the all out hype that CL does when it comes to their auction listing descriptions for their Featured Auction books, whereby you are almost tempted to throw in a bid after reading that flowery overblown description of theirs, even though you might have had zero interest in the book to start with. Being a bit selfish though, I guess there's also a personal reason why I would have prefer the books to have gone through CC, as opposed to going through Heritage. I believe the auction would have been done in a slightly different format and rollout which might possibly have made it a bit easier for some of the smaller players with shallower pockets to have a better shot at getting some of these books here. I also like their 3-minute extended auction format because that 3 minutes is actually a very very long time in the midst of a live auction and I remember winning almost all of my Berk books based upon last minute impulses because that's more than enough time to analyze and decide if you are going to bump your bid up to the next level or not. Of course, it would also appear that both auctions had completely different goals in mind. One of the main purposes of the Jon Berk Auction as he himself had stated at the time, was to pass his collection into the hands of the next generation of comic book collectors to love and care for, similar to how he had been the caretaker for the books for all of those long decades. With the Heritage Auction of the Promise Collection, I get the distinct feeling that even though it was already an once in a lifetime generational GA OO collection that would have set record prices and also had an overwhelming number of highest graded copies in there right from the start, that was still not good enough for them. Even with the record dollars expected for the books as they were, if there was even a chance of squeezing that one more last dollar out of the book, risk of potential damage to the book be dammed, let's go ahead and do it. Hence, my personal take on it is that if the collection had gone through CC, it would have been better for the comic book hobby place, whereas by going through Heritage, it's better for the comic book marketplace.

Yeah, that would most definitely be a big hit since I consider FF 5 to be one of the most key SA books out there, and pretty much the only SA book that I was hoping to acquire for my personal collection back in the day. Sadly, never did managed to pick one up before the prices for it moved past what I was willing to pay for a copy of one. Any idea if the dealer or person you had brought the book from was even aware that there was color touch on the cover? If you was collecting at that time, I am a bit surprised that you was not aware of restoration back then. Especially since restoration was seen as actually ADDING VALUE to an unrestored book for several years back then during the late 70's and very early 80's. I guess much like how current activities auch as pressing and cleaning have now been deemed as also adding value to an unrestored book ever since it was outed on the boards here about 15+ years ago. Which always makes me wonder what would happen to the value of pressed books if say 20 years from now with the rapidly improving technology, they come up with a fast and cost effective method to identify artifical pressing. Just imagine another grading company coming in and differentiating pressed books from the untouched virgin books due to the overwhelming marketplace demand. Needless to say, that would definitely be a huge game changer in the comic book marketplace with the unpressed "virgin" books surging even much higher in value due to high demand coupled with a low supply, while the once uber HG pressed copies would most likely end up selling for only fractions of what they once sold for due to low demand coupled with a huge supply.