Wayne-Tec

Hard to pick and rank but here's a tentative list of ten (not ranked and subject to change )

 

Detective 27

Detective 29

Detective 31

Action 1

Action 7

Cap 1

Bat 1

Supe 1

Marvel 1

Marvel Mystery 9

Great list.

My point is about pop culture not popularity. Lex Luthor is an inconic part of our culture. He gets about twice as many Google hits as Catwoman. Why? Because Lex Luthor embodies an idea -- the nerdy brainy foil to the popular strong athletic guy. If, in a sitcom, a character says: "Well, you're a regular Lex Luthor," we all understand the message conveyed. Catwoman has no similar pop culture significance. Not only has she appeared in far fewer comics, tv show episodes, cartoons, etc., she is far less a referent point in pop culture.

 

While pop awareness of her character may occasionally peak, and I don't doubt that she's considered a cooler sexier character more likely to inspire Halloween costumes, her overall penetration of the pop psych is far far less. She's just another super villain that just doesn't stand for anything else than as a plot device.

 

I would think that there are more Google hits on Catwoman just for the eye candy alone.

 

We have to agree to disagree. I don't think Luthor is very popular with the general public at all(or even with comic fans. Every time Luthor is announced as the villain for the next Superman movie, collective groans of "Luthor AGAIN?" are heard all over the interwebs). Catwoman is one of the most recognizable comic book characters to the general public, while Luthor is so one dimensional(at least in his GA and SA appearances) that the movies had to have Hackman and Spacey camp it up for the character to make any kind of impression. Don't get me wrong, I thought Hackman was great. He has some of the best lines from any comic book movie. But he was barely playing the character that was being featured in the comic books at the time. And as far as crossovers in the comics are concerned, Catwoman faced off with Superman in two issues of Lois Lane in the sixties, and with Wonder Woman during the Bronze Age.

 

I personally like the "Smallville" portrayal of Luthor, and Rosenbaum did not camp it up at all and made quite an impression. And I would argue that the best screen portrayal of Catwoman to date was by Pfeiffer, who most certainly camped it up right along with Danny devito in the Burton Batman sequel. Hathaway was utterly forgettable in her portrayal and the Halle Berry movie was an abomination.

 

Luthor's character has certainly evolved over the decades right along with the rest of our other favorite characters. It's what has allowed him to become iconic and timeless, and yes because superman does not have nearly as many foes as batman, he will eventually almost always show up in the movies, if as nothing else, the string puller, the master manipulator behind the action. If you think super man's rogue gallery is weak with luthor, my goodness what would it be without him?

 

-J.

Catwoman is far from a plot device. She's an iconic, instantly identifiable, indespensible part of the Batman lore. She is as important to Batman as any other villain sans the Joker. She had her own feature film, and has been a supporting character in others played by top-tier Hollywood actresses.

I've referenced this several times, but her inclusion as a playable, important character in Arkham City is a major success on a new, modern front.

While I still stand by my criticisms of the Luthor character, I am pleasently surprised and enthused by the passionate responses in support of his character. This is a good example of these messages boards at their very best. We all have our own day to day things to do in life, but the fans in us keep driving us back here to debate about it.

Good stuff.

What has long disappointed me about Superman is the caliber of his rogues gallery. Luthor is the most famous and since he was Superman's first notable foe sans the Ultra-Humanite, he also has almost 75 years of history with DC's poster boy. But one of the many things that has allowed Batman to dwarf Superman in popularity many times over is his deep rogues gallery. The same can be said of Spider-Man.

On paper, the matchup between Lex's brain and Superman's brawn is interesting. Many great writers and artists have tackled both characters, so it shouldn't shock anyone that we've seen a number of good portrayals over the years. With that being said, I still feel that Superman lacks Batman's Joker. He's fought the brains of Luthor and the brawn of Darkseid, Doomsday, etc. but I still don't feel that DC has ever created a character truly worthy of stepping toe to toe with Superman. It's not difficult to brainstorm a character "strong" enough, and it's not difficult to simply create a character "smart" enough. This is not to say that Luthor, Darkseid, Brainiac, Zod and others aren't good characters. They are, and they're ahead of many lesser-tiered villains. But in comparison to many of Batman's foes, not the least of which being the Joker and Catwoman in particular, I don't find Superman's rogues to be on the same level collectively. Ask anyone outside of comicdom to quickly name five Batman villains -- and I bet most people could do it with little trouble. Ask people to name five Superman villains, and they struggle.

Lex shares Superman's iconic nature and (to a lesser degree) recognizability. But he absolutely benefits from the fact that Superman doesn't have a remarkably deep, popular collection of foes. By sheer default of being Superman's number one nemesis, many want to put him on the Joker's level when (although subjective), he isn't.

It seems like we are talking about two different things... the popularity of Catwoman vs. Luthor in mainstream in one hand and historical importance in the other.

 

Outside of comicdom, Catwoman is by far more well known. Just think about how many Catwoman costumes you see on Halloween vs Lex Luthor.... or how many cosplay Catwoman & Luthors you see. Hand down Catwoman wins by a landslide.

 

On the side of historical significance, Lex Luthor wins by a mile, being Superman's arch foe.

 

Each side of the debate has its own merit.

I agree to some degree.

Catwoman is certainly more popular in the mainstream. But I'm not 100% sure that Luthor is more historically significant. The Luthor of the GA has little in common with the Luthor we know today. Catwoman (known as "The Cat" in Batman #1) still shares similarities with her first incarnation: a strong woman, clever, with her own agenda, capable of rivaling Batman. She is one of, if not the, strongest female character in all of comics.

Superman and Luthor share the fact that they're both iconic.

But outside of comicdom, they're not necissarily exceptionally popular. Luthor benefits from the big fish in a small pond scenario that is Superman's rather weak collection of rogues (at least in comparison to Batman). There have been good portrayals, and many forgettable ones.

Lex has not been the star of any feature films.

Lex has not experienced success in other forms of media, such as gaming, the way Catwoman did in Arkham City. If you're not into modern gaming, that example won't mean much, but within my demographic (mid 20's), it's a big deal.

I for one, loved Michael Rosenbaum's portrayal of Lex in Smallville.

Though I haven't watched every episode in the series, it is my understanding that Lex's character ceased being a regular part of the cast and as time when on, the series lost its momentum. I'm certain there are others better qualified to comment in that regard.

Lex Luthor is far from an afterthought and Hackman's portrayal of the character is certainly an added bonus. Don't forget though, that he also portrayed Lex in Superman IV and that isn't a movie many Superman fans want to remember.

Catwoman, as has been mentioned, is FAR more than just "another" member of Batman's rogue's gallery. Character's of that caliber rarely, if ever, receive the treatment of their own feature film. For anyone who has played the critically acclaimed, commercially successful Arkham City, you know that Catwoman played a major role as a playable character.

While Wonder Woman may be the more iconic character, Catwoman is the is the top female character in all of DC Comics, IMO.

Batman #1 would sell itself based on it being the first issue alone.

Being the 1st app. of the Joker adds a lot of luster to some collectors.

The addition of the 1st app. of Catwoman will mean a lot to some collectors, and little to others. The book, content-wise, it just packed with history.

Lex Luthor is far from an afterthought, but I don't feel he's one the same level as Catwoman. If anything, he is more popular than he would be otherwise by virtue of the fact that he is Superman's most notable antagonist.

Superman does not have the same caliber of rogues that Batman does, so Luthor is a big fish in a small pond in that respect. Superman may be more iconic than popular, so naturally, his most notable nemesis is going to gather some notoriety.

Bat 1s are forever popular. Even if someone pays a little more than current market value, the long term investment potential is real and the satisfaction of owning a Bat 1 is fulfilled. (thumbs u

 

You really hit the nail right on the head.

 

I've been fortunate enough to own some great books over the years, but none of them could compare to my Batman #1. If I had to choose between Tec #27 and Batman #1, I'd choose Tec #27 because of value and rarity but in terms of overall enjoyment, it's Batman #1 all day long.

 

There's many more Bat pages in Bat 1 than Tec 27. And someone called the Joker I think.

 

This is something that is a bit overlooked IMO. In the CGC era that we live in today, many books remain encapsulated. When looking at a slabbed Action #1 or Tec #27, it's easy to overlook the fact that the majority of those books are comprised of non-Superman and non-Batman content. Fewer stories, fewer pages = less history in respects to a page by page measure.

 

While I do feel that the supporting stories of both books are a bit underrated, they still do not hold a candle to their superhero counterparts. If they did, pre-hero issues of Detective, More Fun and Adventure would sell at rates comparable to their superhero counterparts. Those of us who love the history of the medium can appreciate them, but we're not likely to see billion dollar film franchises based off of them either.

 

Batman #1 doesn't just have bulk-content -- it introduced, arguably, the two most famous villains in all of DC Comics -- in addition to being the first issue of the solo series dedicated to DC's more popular hero.

 

Joker, yes, but Catwoman is definitely not more famous than Lex Luthor.

I beg to differ.

Though it was a flop, Catwoman had her own feature film.

It's debatable, for sure, but I do not feel that Luthor is more famous than Catwoman.

Bat 1s are forever popular. Even if someone pays a little more than current market value, the long term investment potential is real and the satisfaction of owning a Bat 1 is fulfilled. (thumbs u

 

You really hit the nail right on the head.

 

I've been fortunate enough to own some great books over the years, but none of them could compare to my Batman #1. If I had to choose between Tec #27 and Batman #1, I'd choose Tec #27 because of value and rarity but in terms of overall enjoyment, it's Batman #1 all day long.

 

There's many more Bat pages in Bat 1 than Tec 27. And someone called the Joker I think.

This is something that is a bit overlooked IMO. In the CGC era that we live in today, many books remain encapsulated. When looking at a slabbed Action #1 or Tec #27, it's easy to overlook the fact that the majority of those books are comprised of non-Superman and non-Batman content. Fewer stories, fewer pages = less history in respects to a page by page measure.

While I do feel that the supporting stories of both books are a bit underrated, they still do not hold a candle to their superhero counterparts. If they did, pre-hero issues of Detective, More Fun and Adventure would sell at rates comparable to their superhero counterparts. Those of us who love the history of the medium can appreciate them, but we're not likely to see billion dollar film franchises based off of them either.

Batman #1 doesn't just have bulk-content -- it introduced, arguably, the two most famous villains in all of DC Comics -- in addition to being the first issue of the solo series dedicated to DC's more popular hero.

Bat 1s are forever popular. Even if someone pays a little more than current market value, the long term investment potential is real and the satisfaction of owning a Bat 1 is fulfilled. (thumbs u

You really hit the nail right on the head.

I've been fortunate enough to own some great books over the years, but none of them could compare to my Batman #1. If I had to choose between Tec #27 and Batman #1, I'd choose Tec #27 because of value and rarity but in terms of overall enjoyment, it's Batman #1 all day long.

Well the Sparkle City .5 didn't hit $10,000

 

Did anyone honestly think it would?

 

-J.

 

I am actually amazed at how high it did close. It was a beyond ugly copy and incomplete to boot.

 

+1. It petered out at just under the highest I thought it might go for, though I am a bit surprised it even broke 8k with such poor eye appeal. Looking forward to that 4 on comic link now. Any thoughts on FMV on that one?

 

-J.

 

In the grand scheme of things, I suspect the sale of the 0.5 copy will look like an absolute steal down the road. Considering a coverless, brittle paged copy missing the entire first wrap and centerfold sold for just under 6K, a copy with the centerfold, with the first wrap, with the front cover and superior, non-brittle PQ is a comparative steal.

 

The only problem here is the assmption that the 6K price for a brittle incomplete interior is sustainable. I don't think it is and I think that was a fluke and isn't likely to occur again.I can buy a nice complete interior for 7K ish any day of the week.

 

There have been several sales on .5 copies missing the back cover in the 7-8K range which I think it right, after all I can buy a 3.5 restored copy for 13K, which is a better deal then an incomplete ugly beat up copy for 8K IMO.

 

James G

I felt the same way about coverless copies until I saw price escalation. The copy that sold for about 6K sold for over 5K on Heritage months before that. While its only two examples, the price is trending upward.

Well the Sparkle City .5 didn't hit $10,000

 

Did anyone honestly think it would?

 

-J.

 

I am actually amazed at how high it did close. It was a beyond ugly copy and incomplete to boot.

 

+1. It petered out at just under the highest I thought it might go for, though I am a bit surprised it even broke 8k with such poor eye appeal. Looking forward to that 4 on comic link now. Any thoughts on FMV on that one?

 

-J.

In the grand scheme of things, I suspect the sale of the 0.5 copy will look like an absolute steal down the road. Considering a coverless, brittle paged copy missing the entire first wrap and centerfold sold for just under 6K, a copy with the centerfold, with the first wrap, with the front cover and superior, non-brittle PQ is a comparative steal.

Sparkle City currently has a Universal CGC .5 copy of Batman #1 up for auction.

 

LINK

 

It will be interesting to see how much this entry-level copy goes for.

 

$8,427 was the final sales price.

A great deal IMHO.

If I had the mullah I would choose:

 

1. Bat 1

2. Bat 1

3. Bat 1

4. Bat 1

5. Bat 1

 

I went to update the club list, but we've had no new additions.

Maybe someone will win the Sparkle City copy tonight.

I might rewrite this five times just tonight.

 

1. Detective Comics #27

2, Batman #1

3. Action Comics #1

4. Superman #1

5. Captain America Comics #1

6. All Star #8

7. Whiz Comics #2 (#1)

8. Planet Comics #1

9. Detective Comics #31

10. Detective Comics #33

 

I really like your list Rob.

 

I take it you're more of a Batman fan than a Superman fan?

 

Guiltr as charged! 11-20 would have another few Bat-books (and, to be fair, Superman #14)

I too am a bigger fan of Batman than Superman, but I still put Action #1 ahead of Tec #27. The historical significance of the book trumps the 1st app. of my favorite hero.

With that said, I also put Batman #1 ahead of Superman #1.

I might rewrite this five times just tonight.

 

1. Detective Comics #27

2, Batman #1

3. Action Comics #1

4. Superman #1

5. Captain America Comics #1

6. All Star #8

7. Whiz Comics #2 (#1)

8. Planet Comics #1

9. Detective Comics #31

10. Detective Comics #33

I really like your list Rob.

I take it you're more of a Batman fan than a Superman fan?

Looks like great minds think alike Bill...

1. Action Comics #1

2. Detective Comics #27

3. Batman #1

4. Superman #1

5. Captain America Comics #1

6. Marvel Comics #1

7. Detective Comics #31

8. Action Comics #7

9. More Fun Comics #52

10. Whiz Comics #2 (#1)

1. Action Comics #1

2. Detective Comics #27

3. Batman #1

4. Superman #1

5. Captain America Comics #1

6. Marvel Comics #1

7. All American Comics #16

8. Adventure Comics #40

9. More Fun Comics #52

10.Flash Comics #1

 

Honorable mention to Whiz Comics #2 (#1)

If we get into value in terms of $$$$/comic, my list would be a lot different.

You could always create one list based on FMV, and another based on personal preference. (thumbs u

Hey guys,

I thought it would be fun to rank our favorite Golden Age Superhero books by degree of desirability. FMV can certainly play a role in the selections, but it's really up to personal preference. I've found that my list has changed frequently over the years --a trend that will likely continue-- but off the top of my head, my Top-10 would look something like this:

1. Action Comics #1

2. Detective Comics #27

3. Batman #1

4. Superman #1

5. Captain America Comics #1

6. Marvel Comics #1

7. Detective Comics #31

8. Action Comics #7

9. More Fun Comics #52

10. Whiz Comics #2 (#1)

How about you?

Well if someone feel they need an affordable 'blue chip' Bat #1, complete with a frontcover. 10K could very well be the entry level figure for the ground floor ...

Pepole always talk about first Joker. But hey guys dont forget Bat 1 has first Catwoman as well. She is a great character. Michelle Pfeiffer did her in one of Burtons movies: fantastic ...

I've said many times that from a content perspective, Batman #1 has no peers.

The historical significance of Action Comics #1 trumps it, but Batman #1 has the best collection of content you'll ever find in a Golden Age comic book.

*1st Batman solo book.

*1st app. of the Joker.

*1st app. of Catwoman.

*Classic cover.

*Final Pre-Robin Tec story.

*2nd app. of Hugo Strange (made famous in Arkham City).

*3rd app. of Robin.

*Origin of Batman reprinted.

When you add the fact that Christopher Nolan used the two Joker stories from the book to help derive his interpretation of Heath Ledger's Joker, you're adding a modern, extremely relevant, extremely cool factor into the mix.

It's tough to top all that.

Agreed. I'm definitely passing on it as well. There comes a point where a book is so ugly to look at and/or too incomplete, there is just no pride or point in even owning it. Especially at an exaggerated or exorbitant price point. Sometimes "just having one" isn't enough. There was a low grade cap 1 on ebay a while ago that I felt the same way about. Guess I'll just have to keep waiting...

There's really no right or wrong when it comes to preference. I mentioned this in a thread not too long ago, but I believe in situations like this, it really comes down to what you value more as a collector...

Historical significance/content --or--- condition/preservation.

It's certainly not definitvely black or while, for anyone really. I can only speak for myself by saying that naturally, the higher the grade the better. But when it comes to expensive books, that's just not practical. With books like Batman #1 --and we're now talking the 4th most valuable book on the planet-- most can't afford to be picky. If 10K or so is the entry level price to acquire a copy with at least the front cover, a collector has to decide if they want to own a copy of one of the greatest comics of all time, or if they want several higher graded copies of forgettable issues.

I find that a lot of non-key GA books are mostly appreciated for their artwork and/or the desire to complete a run. You probably won't hear comic book historians talking about Batman #5 in any documentaries. So the value of the book to most collectors is not related to the content of what's in between the pages.

We collect whatever we enjoy, so again, it's all subjective. But a lot of collectors really treasure the content and historical significance of books like Batman #1 so much so that it easily overshadows the sacrifice in grade usually needed to obtain a copy.

Hmm .... this particular .5 copy it could shiff 12Kish regions. Just a poor mans guesstimate ....

 

It won't be sniffing my 12K regions.

 

 

Well one never knows : this particular book is the poor man's tec 27

 

 

More like "moderately well-to-do man's" Tec 27.

 

With a low grade copy such as this, there's always the potential to see bids from collectors who view this as their holy grail comic book, especially since Tec #27 is out of most people's price ranges. But no "poor man" is getting close to a Batman #1, the prices are exceedingly strong.

 

I'm with you Wayne-Tec. This book could fetch more than it normally fetches because of the "out-of-reach" Tec 27 prices. (thumbs u

To whoever ends up winning this copy, it's hard to go wrong with a blue label Batman #1.

Hmm .... this particular .5 copy it could shiff 12Kish regions. Just a poor mans guesstimate ....

 

It won't be sniffing my 12K regions.

 

 

Well one never knows : this particular book is the poor man's tec 27

 

 

More like "moderately well-to-do man's" Tec 27.

With a low grade copy such as this, there's always the potential to see bids from collectors who view this as their holy grail comic book, especially since Tec #27 is out of most people's price ranges. But no "poor man" is getting close to a Batman #1, the prices are exceedingly strong.

8-10K? last 0.5 incomplete GPA sale was north of $7.5...I don't know what that book looked like though or what it was missing...just a guess...sparklecity seems to get get pretty good action on their bids so only time will tell...who knows I might be short with that guesstimate I think 8 would be a fair price though for both buyer and seller

Well, a coverless copy missing the entire first wrap, with brittle pages sold at auction a few months back for $5,923. This copy has everything except the back cover, with cream to off-white pages. 8-10K wouldn't be out of line at all. I wouldn't be shocked to see it exceed that.

Sparkle City currently has a Universal CGC .5 copy of Batman #1 up for auction.

LINK

It will be interesting to see how much this entry-level copy goes for.