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Wayne-Tec
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Posts posted by Wayne-Tec
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I doubt that trend will hold up. Bat #1 is so clearly the better book. Its one of the few books that transcend the medium. Tec31 not so much (not yet at least; though its obviously a fantastic book)
My rule of thumb is:
If a book's value stems from something not firmly entrenched in sensible logic, then it's future value and/or it's future rate of "climbing" in value is more vulnerable to facing the test of time.
Tec #31 is a great book, beyond just the front cover. Some consider it to be Action #7's counterpart, but from a content standpoint, Tec #31 is easily more important. The 1st app. of the batarang, 1st app. of Julie Madison (Wayne's first love interest) and the 1st app. of the Monk (Batman's first super villain) all put it on a different level than books like Action #7, Action #10 and Tec #35 that thrive off the covers, but offer little in terms of important content.
But in comparison to Batman #1, it's not even close.
1st app. of the Joker (first two actually), 1st app. of Catwoman, 2nd app. of Hugo Strange, 3rd app. of Robin, final Pre-Robin Tec story (Batman takes a life) and reprinted Tec #33 origin with Tec #34 splash art all put Batman #1 out of any GA DC book's league sans Action Comics #1.
Rarity also plays a significant role. In instances like AF #15, the desirability easily trumps rarer books with "cooler" covers and the reality is, Batman #1 has yet to receive more universal appreciation for what makes it so special. If you remove all of the content mentioned above, it would still be one of the most valuable books in the hobby by virtue of "No. 1 syndrome." People know it's the 1st. app of the Joker and Catwoman, but to many, those are facts mentioned in passing as "neat" additions to an already cool book.
If you study the history and evolution of the comic book superhero, it's clear that Batman #1 is much more than that. Nolan used the two Joker stories as source material to help flesh out Heath Ledger's Joker in The Dark Knight, a film that went on to gross more than $1,000,000,000 worldwide. The content found in those first two Joker stories was revolutionary, or "transcending" as Bill alluded to.
When discussing which of the two books is more valuable now vs. which of the two will be more valuable going forward -- Tec #31 benefits tremendously from the reality of collectors not thinking too much into things, as Rick mentioned in a prior thread a little while back. The further you think and care about the content and significance of the books, the less appealing Tec #31 begins to look in comparison to Batman #1.
You can always fall back on the rarity factor and assume that alone will make the difference, but I disagree. For factors I mentioned at the beginning of this post, Tec #31 is a great book, and it's unsurprising that it continues to be cherished more and more. So I predict that it will continue to rise in value. But because the majority of Batman #1's luster, to many collectors, stems from the "No. 1 syndrome", I have faith that collectors will become more aware and more knowledgable in respects to appreciating the medium's history -- and that, in turn, will lead to much greater demand for Batman #1 in the long run.
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so is this a new GPA for Batman #1 in CGC 2.0 blue label?
sold for $33k
If this sale is legit, it seems like a steal next to the Tec #31 CGC 2.0 that recently sold on Heritage for $34,655.
I understand recent FMV may place the two books close, but in the long run, I don't see them as being anywhere near close.
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Paul was great to work with. His payment was prompt and I would not hesitate to work with him again in the future. Thanks!
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The Batman #1 on Heritage is up to $28,680 with a little under two weeks left. Any predictions?
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Hi All,
I hope it's ok to share this brand new to market Cap #1 with everyone. At 51 years old and having dealt on and off in comic books for a total of 21 years, up until now I have never handled a copy.
As much as I love my job (and I truly do), there is a point where you become a little jaded handling another ASM 1, etc. In this case, it was like being transported in time to 1975 or so and poring over Overstreet photos of rare books you never dreamed you might hold in hand one day. To answer some obvious questions:
1) The book was purchased by a local dealer from the original owner
. It was an 18 month process involving the sale of many other golden age books (none with the panache of this book but some cool stuff for sure).2) As much as I'd love to keep this, yes I will be selling it.
3) It is a tweener 4.0/4.5 as it sits. 4.25 if there was such a grade.
Awesome book Greg.
It would look great in a CGC slab, and I'm sure when you decide to sell, it's going to make some collector very happy. (thumbs u
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I believe I know what ciroac means, though I do not attempt to speak for him. But I do believe that he means that cap is not a "top tier character" (and I am inclined to agree with him) in that he is not transcendent in the way the actual top tier characters are....those characters being superman, batman, spiderman, and wolverine. These are top tier characters who are created, or redefined the entire craft of comic books. Captain America was originally a just a propaganda tool, which ultimately became dated and was eventually scrapped altogether until avengers 4. Batman, superman, spiderman have all been featured in continuous titles, usually multiple continuous titles, since their inception. Their enduring popularity is not related to how much box office the next movie makes. As others have pointed out, cap 1 was a slow book until the movies, and his recent popularity is because of and almost entirely based on his presence in movies. All comic book characters have benefited from the movies to varying extent, but captain America is no batman. He is comfortably in the second tier of characters along with the hulk and Thor however. Still very good company. (thumbs u
-J.
As always Jay, love your feedback. (thumbs u
I probably felt the same way about Cap before I started delving into the original S&K Golden Age run. If you mean "transcendent" the way Merriam-Webster defines it, I do believe Cap to be, in many cases (but certainly not all), "beyond the limits of ordinary experience" and "far better and greater than what is usual."
In the Golden Age, there are few books out there, IMO, much better than that original S&K run. Beyond the advances on the art side, the character delivered powerful messages and touched on themes that many people could relate to -- both back then, and today.
The Winter Soldier is the most recent example of how audiences can take to Cap when he is portrayed the right way. I believe Marvel is doing a great job on that front.
Like any character that's been around for about 75 years, there is good and there is bad. But there is plenty --and I mean PLENTY-- of bad Superman and Batman material out there that would detract from the transcendent label.
I'm not saying that decade-for-decade, cumulatively, that Cap has reached Superman/Batman status, but I also think it's important not to knock the immense global success he is experiencing now. And it is now that I feel Cap to absolutely be a top tier character.
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And when the Cap comic came out, he wasn't. Timely didn't really hit their stride until the 60s, as Marvel
Cap #1 was a monumental success on the newsstands -- selling 1,000,000 copies.
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Speaking of rumors, didn't MMehdy once post that he knew of a collector with a high grade Action 1 that was waiting on the submission of the Church copy and hoping a "page quality bump" might get his a higher grade?
why wait for the Church copy to submit first?
Just guessing here, but if the Church copy were to be graded as a 9.2 with CR/OW or OW pages, perhaps the owner of the other copy would hope that with superior page quality, their copy, even if less impressive overall, may get an equal or higher grade.
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IN addition to the reasons that he states, there is also the added desirability of owning the first appearance of Captain America over an issue '1' of a character that had already been out for a bit.
None of the other big-time GA books have the combination Cap #1 has:
*No.1 issue of a series devoted to that specific superhero.
*First appearance of a classic superhero.
*Origin of a classic superhero.
*First appearance of that superhero's arch nemesis (Red Skull).
*Classic cover.
*Impressive cover artistically/visually.
Action #1 -- an anthology series, one hero story, classic but artistically simple cover.
Tec #27 -- an anthology series, one hero story, no origin whatsoever.
Superman #1 -- no 1st app., mostly reprinted material, no notable villains.
Batman #1 -- not the 1st app., of the title character.
Marvel #1 -- No top-tier characters, no noteworthy villains.
In those respects, no other GA book is in Cap #1's league. And the combination of factors listed above are, to me, much more than "Oh yeah, that's neat" kind of stuff.
You say that in "those respects, no other GA book is in Cap #1's league", and that may be true based on the criteria that you defined, however based on the criteria I might define the same could be said about Action #1...
I don't usually put this much thought into ranking the top books based on personal desirability, but here goes...
Although I actually perform a calculation, I suppose that I typically implicitly look at the following criteria, in the order shown, when ranking the desirability of the best of the best Superhero books:
My highest weighted criteria:
(1) First Appearance of 1st Tier Superhero
(2) Cover Related: 1st cover appearance of Superhero &/or Classic Cover
(3) 1st time origin story told?
Bonus points if the book has this stuff:
(4) Arch Nemesis included?
(5) Is it a #1 issue of a book that has one or more solo stories in every issue for the Superhero in question; a bit of a bonus if the entire book is devoted to the Superhero in question
(6) Other noteworthy factors not covered above
I suppose I then implicitly assign ratings to each of the criterion above and then multiply those rankings by the applicable criteria weighting in order to arrive at the overall ranking of a given book
Based on the criteria I have identified above:
Action #1 -- Meets all of my criteria above and ranks high in each category IMO (bonus points for being a #1 issue and for being the 1st major ongoing superhero book)
Tec #27 -- No origin story, and while Bats appears on the cover, the cover isn't quite as classic as some of the others IMO. Very high ranking for criterion #1 / no noteworthy bonus points.
Superman #1 -- Not Supes first appearance and not the 1st origin story (although it is expanded on a bit). Bonus points for being a #1 issue and for being the first book devoted entirely to a superhero.
Batman #1 -- Not Bats first appearance, nor is it the first time his origin is told (although it does have a very early / very classic reprint). Borderline classic cover IMO (personally I'm not a big fan of Robin on the cover
). Big time bonus points for Joker first appearance and some more bonus points for being the #1 issue of the first book devoted to Batman.Marvel #1 -- 1st newsstand appearance / origin of Subby and 1st Human Torch, but neither are what I would call 1st tier superheros. Classic cover with the Torch but no Subby. Bonus points for being Marvel #1.
Cap #1 -- 1st appearance and origin of Cap, and while his stock has certainly gone up of late, I still wouldn't put him in the same category as Batman or Superman. Classic cover. Bonus points for being a #1 issue devoted to Cap and for the 1st appearance of the Red Skull.
If I were to actually work through the calcs (assigning weights to various criteria and ranking each book against each criterion, and then adding up total score for each book), based on my weightings / rankings, I believe I would probably end up with the following rankings:
Action #1
Tec #27
Cap #1
I'm sure everyone else has other criteria that they look at, and assign different weightings to their criteria than I do, if they were to take the time to try to explain how they personally rank various books...
P.S. Having said all that, I guess I don't always follow my own "rules" as my formulae above would probably rank All-Star #8 above Sensation #1, however I actually prefer Sensation #1 over All-Star #8
I like Sensation #1 over All Star #8 as well, I also like Wonder Woman #1 over All Star #8.
But Cap is not a first tier character. So putting him at #3 I can't get on board with
BLASPHEMY I say!!!!
(Hi Bill
) On a global box office scale, Cap currently is a top tier character.
The Winter Soldier has out- grossed both Man of Steel and Amazing Spider-Man 2 worldwide. So if Cap isn't currently a top tier character, neither are Superman or Spider-Man (which I don't agree with).
In this day and age, movies approaching the $1,000,000,000 are the highest measures of success. Superman is also suffering on the newsstands. Over the decades, cumulatively, there is no doubt that Superman is a top tier character. But in today's world, Cap is absolutely a top tier character.
Using that logic, I could negotiate a license to produce a comic book about Avatar and suddenly the first appearance would be as relevant as Captain America's first appearance? Or Superman's?
It's not based purely on box office performance, but that may be the largest measure. I am admittedly unfamiliar with Avatar, for the most part, so it's tough for me to comment. But when Avatar came out, it was extremely relevant and a top tier film.
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IN addition to the reasons that he states, there is also the added desirability of owning the first appearance of Captain America over an issue '1' of a character that had already been out for a bit.
None of the other big-time GA books have the combination Cap #1 has:
*No.1 issue of a series devoted to that specific superhero.
*First appearance of a classic superhero.
*Origin of a classic superhero.
*First appearance of that superhero's arch nemesis (Red Skull).
*Classic cover.
*Impressive cover artistically/visually.
Action #1 -- an anthology series, one hero story, classic but artistically simple cover.
Tec #27 -- an anthology series, one hero story, no origin whatsoever.
Superman #1 -- no 1st app., mostly reprinted material, no notable villains.
Batman #1 -- not the 1st app., of the title character.
Marvel #1 -- No top-tier characters, no noteworthy villains.
In those respects, no other GA book is in Cap #1's league. And the combination of factors listed above are, to me, much more than "Oh yeah, that's neat" kind of stuff.
You say that in "those respects, no other GA book is in Cap #1's league", and that may be true based on the criteria that you defined, however based on the criteria I might define the same could be said about Action #1...
I don't usually put this much thought into ranking the top books based on personal desirability, but here goes...
Although I actually perform a calculation, I suppose that I typically implicitly look at the following criteria, in the order shown, when ranking the desirability of the best of the best Superhero books:
My highest weighted criteria:
(1) First Appearance of 1st Tier Superhero
(2) Cover Related: 1st cover appearance of Superhero &/or Classic Cover
(3) 1st time origin story told?
Bonus points if the book has this stuff:
(4) Arch Nemesis included?
(5) Is it a #1 issue of a book that has one or more solo stories in every issue for the Superhero in question; a bit of a bonus if the entire book is devoted to the Superhero in question
(6) Other noteworthy factors not covered above
I suppose I then implicitly assign ratings to each of the criterion above and then multiply those rankings by the applicable criteria weighting in order to arrive at the overall ranking of a given book
Based on the criteria I have identified above:
Action #1 -- Meets all of my criteria above and ranks high in each category IMO (bonus points for being a #1 issue and for being the 1st major ongoing superhero book)
Tec #27 -- No origin story, and while Bats appears on the cover, the cover isn't quite as classic as some of the others IMO. Very high ranking for criterion #1 / no noteworthy bonus points.
Superman #1 -- Not Supes first appearance and not the 1st origin story (although it is expanded on a bit). Bonus points for being a #1 issue and for being the first book devoted entirely to a superhero.
Batman #1 -- Not Bats first appearance, nor is it the first time his origin is told (although it does have a very early / very classic reprint). Borderline classic cover IMO (personally I'm not a big fan of Robin on the cover
). Big time bonus points for Joker first appearance and some more bonus points for being the #1 issue of the first book devoted to Batman.Marvel #1 -- 1st newsstand appearance / origin of Subby and 1st Human Torch, but neither are what I would call 1st tier superheros. Classic cover with the Torch but no Subby. Bonus points for being Marvel #1.
Cap #1 -- 1st appearance and origin of Cap, and while his stock has certainly gone up of late, I still wouldn't put him in the same category as Batman or Superman. Classic cover. Bonus points for being a #1 issue devoted to Cap and for the 1st appearance of the Red Skull.
If I were to actually work through the calcs (assigning weights to various criteria and ranking each book against each criterion, and then adding up total score for each book), based on my weightings / rankings, I believe I would probably end up with the following rankings:
Action #1
Tec #27
Cap #1
I'm sure everyone else has other criteria that they look at, and assign different weightings to their criteria than I do, if they were to take the time to try to explain how they personally rank various books...
P.S. Having said all that, I guess I don't always follow my own "rules" as my formulae above would probably rank All-Star #8 above Sensation #1, however I actually prefer Sensation #1 over All-Star #8
I like Sensation #1 over All Star #8 as well, I also like Wonder Woman #1 over All Star #8.
But Cap is not a first tier character. So putting him at #3 I can't get on board with
BLASPHEMY I say!!!!
(Hi Bill
) On a global box office scale, Cap currently is a top tier character.
The Winter Soldier has out- grossed both Man of Steel and Amazing Spider-Man 2 worldwide. So if Cap isn't currently a top tier character, neither are Superman or Spider-Man (which I don't agree with).
In this day and age, movies approaching the $1,000,000,000 are the highest measures of success. Superman is also suffering on the newsstands. Over the decades, cumulatively, there is no doubt that Superman is a top tier character. But in today's world, Cap is absolutely a top tier character.
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Totally. I don't get other countries (except perhaps those very closely allied with US) being anything but turned off by "captain America." I guess he gets a pass as a result of being created in the 40s? I would expect more resistance
Captain America was created during a time in which the world was experiencing a horrific global conflict. Many countries and many people were victim's of Hitler's regime. Human beings can relate to and be supportive of a character who stands in opposition of that -- regardless of the colors he wears.
There's also a difference between not relating on the same level because the character represents a different country than yours, and being "turned off."
As an American, I can relate more to Captain America -- but if there was a Captain Chile (very similar flag and colors BTW, not that that's relevant) and he stood up to a great global evil and represented the same ideals -- I'd embrace that character as well.
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RedFury,
Love the feedback and passion bro. Awesome sig-line too!
Superman #1 should never be referred to as just "a collection of reprints" -- and students of history know that. I touched on this subject over four years ago here on the boards.
You shouldn't overlook the fact that it's mostly unoriginal content, but at the same time, it is the 1st app. of the Kents, it completes the first story of Action #1 and expands on Superman's scientific origin. Those aspects were new material -- even though it's rarely brought up.
I'm a young collector who some old-school collecting characteristics. To me, it is important that Superman #1 was the first book devoted to one superhero. When comparing the importance of that to the first app. of another major character, or the real life historical connections found in Cap #1 -- apples and oranges can certainly apply.
At the end of the day, it's going to come down to each person's personal preferences. People should realize, in more detail, why Superman #1 was so important. But at the same time, I believe that there is a lot in respects to Cap #1 that people have overlooked until recently.
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If we go by the most recent example, MOS vs. Winter Soldier, we actually see surprising results. MOS actually did better in the US (so far, WS is less than four months old), but overall globally, it's Winter Soldier that's been the most successful.
While there's no doubt that Cap is an American character, current global audiences outside the US don't seem to be effected negatively by this. A lot of that may have to do with how good WS was, but that's not something to be overlooked or mentioned is passing. These films are budgeted with hundreds of millions of dollars, and in WS's case, are close to grossing a BILLION dollars in the global market. The combination of current comics, cartoons and video games can't touch that -- not financially and not in terms of exposure. So as we speak, Cap is defying our previous conceptions of being more limited to US appeal.
In respects to Cap #1, the unfortunate reality of who Hitler was has left him a personality whom a great many people enjoy to see getting punched in the face. He wasn't just an enemy of the US, he was an enemy of many, many nations. So while the red, white and blue do showcase Cap as proudly American, who he was fighting is something that the globe can very much relate to.
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Thanks for the feedback Adam. Always appreciate your insight bro. (thumbs u
While there's obviously a much greater gap scarcity-wise, I like the Action #1/Hulk #181 analogy in respects to popularity. Similar principle contributes to Cap #1 being more valuable than AF #15. So I can't deny the tremendous impact it has, but I do think its worth considering that the scarcity-factor hasn't been enough to keep Marvel #1 ahead of Cap #1 -- so I think in the long run, a book needs more than scarcity to stay above another. Realistically, I don't see Cap #1 passing Superman #1 in the near future, but I won't be shocked if the gap is shortened some as time goes on.
This recent trend of early, classic cover books (e.g. Action #7, Tec #31) out-performing treasured books of significant content/ desirability (e.g. Batman #1, Cap #1, Marvel #1) does not have the legs, IMHO, to withstand decades. Those books simply don't have the relevant interior content to supersede the legendary books mentioned that have both classic covers and interior content that is very importantly and very directly related to the box office sensations that expose the globe to the character's exploits.
Factors of scarcity and cool cover syndrome won't be enough in the long run to keep them ahead, again, IMO. I believe that with greater knowledge, and the subsequent greater appreciation and love of history that comes with it -- certain books have a lot of room for growth. If trophy-syndrome and "it's cool" factors are enough to motivate people to drop five-six figures on these books, imagine how much more fun and engaging collecting them becomes when people realize how rich their history is, and how relevant the book's interior content has become.
Just my two cents.
I think they will have legs, because Action #7/#10 and TEC #29/#31 still came out before Supes and Bats #1, and I'm sure there are many others like me who find that more relevant and desirable than the later first issue books that are not even first appearances.
While I myself find the historical significance of the major books to be, amongst other factors, powerful, historically-enduring reasons to love these books, I think that it's a good thing for collectors to have different tastes. The common ground here is that we LOVE these books. We don't post on message boards early in the AM without sharing that passion.
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Thanks for the feedback Adam. Always appreciate your insight bro. (thumbs u
While there's obviously a much greater gap scarcity-wise, I like the Action #1/Hulk #181 analogy in respects to popularity. Similar principle contributes to Cap #1 being more valuable than AF #15. So I can't deny the tremendous impact it has, but I do think its worth considering that the scarcity-factor hasn't been enough to keep Marvel #1 ahead of Cap #1 -- so I think in the long run, a book needs more than scarcity to stay above another. Realistically, I don't see Cap #1 passing Superman #1 in the near future, but I won't be shocked if the gap is shortened some as time goes on.
This recent trend of early, classic cover books (e.g. Action #7, Tec #31) out-performing treasured books of significant content/ desirability (e.g. Batman #1, Cap #1, Marvel #1) does not have the legs, IMHO, to withstand decades. Those books simply don't have the relevant interior content to supersede the legendary books mentioned that have both classic covers and interior content that is very importantly and very directly related to the box office sensations that expose the globe to the character's exploits.
Factors of scarcity and cool cover syndrome won't be enough in the long run to keep them ahead, again, IMO. I believe that with greater knowledge, and the subsequent greater appreciation and love of history that comes with it -- certain books have a lot of room for growth. If trophy-syndrome and "it's cool" factors are enough to motivate people to drop five-six figures on these books, imagine how much more fun and engaging collecting them becomes when people realize how rich their history is, and how relevant the book's interior content has become.
Just my two cents.
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"most collectors don't --at this point in time-- put as much thought into the history of these books, or the combination of factors that makes them special."
You might want to re-think that. I've been collecting Golden Age comics for 30 years, and have met hundreds of Golden Age collectors. Virtually every single one of them puts a great deal of thought into the "history of these books." (thumbs u
You're right in the sense that I should be more careful with terms like "most" as it's really tough to quantify. If you scroll back a page or two to one of my prior posts, you'll see that I've expressed how fortunate I've been to know some really passionate collectors. And many of my experiences echo what you said above -- that they do know and love the history of these books and characters.
I was speaking in respects to those --however few or many-- who think more along the lines of "it's cool" as opposed to delving into the history.
Wayne-Tec, I hate to burst your bubble but Cap 1 will never have the iconic impact that Action 1 or Tec 27 have had on the hobby.I'm not sure what you mean in respects to iconic impact, I was just pointing out the combination of important, desirable factors found in Cap #1, and the fact that many of the other top books don't possess all of them in one single issue.
I wouldn't put Cap #1 ahead of Action #1 or Tec #27 -- but comparing it to Superman #1 is a different story.
I see. Thanks for clarifying.
(thumbs u
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"most collectors don't --at this point in time-- put as much thought into the history of these books, or the combination of factors that makes them special."
You might want to re-think that. I've been collecting Golden Age comics for 30 years, and have met hundreds of Golden Age collectors. Virtually every single one of them puts a great deal of thought into the "history of these books." (thumbs u
You're right in the sense that I should be more careful with terms like "most" as it's really tough to quantify. If you scroll back a page or two to one of my prior posts, you'll see that I've expressed how fortunate I've been to know some really passionate collectors. And many of my experiences echo what you said above -- that they do know and love the history of these books and characters.
I was speaking in respects to those --however few or many-- who think more along the lines of "it's cool" as opposed to delving into the history.
Wayne-Tec, I hate to burst your bubble but Cap 1 will never have the iconic impact that Action 1 or Tec 27 have had on the hobby.I'm not sure what you mean in respects to iconic impact, I was just pointing out the combination of important, desirable factors found in Cap #1, and the fact that many of the other top books don't possess all of them in one single issue.
I wouldn't put Cap #1 ahead of Action #1 or Tec #27 -- but comparing it to Superman #1 is a different story.
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And as Rick mentioned earlier, most collectors don't --at this point in time-- put as much thought into the history of these books, or the combination of factors that makes them special. But something to consider as time moves forward is that 2014 is a much different era than 2004, 1994, 1984, so on and so forth.
The characters who originated in the pages of the very books we treasure are experiencing success and exposure on levels many collectors could have never imagined. As technology advances by leaps and bounds, information is more readily available than ever before. You don't have to physically dig through the pages of a specific book that may or may not even be available at your local bookstore any more. Now, you can learn so much more about these characters, their history and the origins behind their creation, and you can learn about these things at your fingertips -- iPhones, iPads, MacBooks, Kindles, etc.
Do I expect most collectors to delve into it as much as I do? Probably not. But in an economy that's less than stellar, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect collectors who drop five-six figures to be a little bit more interested in what lies beneath the pages of the books they purchase. The leg-work past collectors had to put into learning has been drastically simplified, hence, making it much easier for collectors to be exposed to, and in-turn excited about, this kind of info.
The next generation of collectors will be, collectively, more up to snuff technologically and more easily equipped to gather the information that continues to become more readily available. I think in the long run, that perspective will be stronger --and more motivating-- than the "it's cool" mentality that seems to dominate current spending trends.
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IN addition to the reasons that he states, there is also the added desirability of owning the first appearance of Captain America over an issue '1' of a character that had already been out for a bit.
None of the other big-time GA books have the combination Cap #1 has:
*No.1 issue of a series devoted to that specific superhero.
*First appearance of a classic superhero.
*Origin of a classic superhero.
*First appearance of that superhero's arch nemesis (Red Skull).
*Classic cover.
*Impressive cover artistically/visually.
Action #1 -- an anthology series, one hero story, classic but artistically simple cover.
Tec #27 -- an anthology series, one hero story, no origin whatsoever.
Superman #1 -- no 1st app., mostly reprinted material, no notable villains.
Batman #1 -- not the 1st app., of the title character.
Marvel #1 -- No top-tier characters, no noteworthy villains.
In those respects, no other GA book is in Cap #1's league. And the combination of factors listed above are, to me, much more than "Oh yeah, that's neat" kind of stuff.
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I really like that Wayne Tec is so passionate about the books... But I believe you to be a. Exception to he general state of the hobby among "youts". The avg 20-30 is not , by any realistic means, putting that much thought or effort into it. Heck, many 40-50+ don't. I've asked buyers why they've purchased a cap 1 or supe 1 etc from me and more often than not I get "it's cool", "it's a good investment" or similar responses. No one has ever expanded too to much behind that
Now there are always exceptions to the rule. Satre is a great artist, his perspective is diff than many. Wayne Tec is analytically the exception to most. Me, I'm not that deep.
I appreciate the kind words Rick. (thumbs u
And I hear what you're saying regarding the degree of depth collectors put into making these choices and developing these preferences. I've been fortunate enough to get to know some great collecting minds, and fellow students of history so to speak. For me, the historical/analytical points I bring up bring me a deeper degree of enjoyment. I can very much relate to the same "cool" factors that we all appreciate, but it's all of that extra stuff that makes spending thousands and thousands of dollars on these funny books completely worth it to me.
If the two of us sat down and cracked open a few Coke Zeros, I bet you I could further ignite your enthusiasm and love for these books via historical reflection.
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Just my thoughts & opinions but I would think if you laid out all four books in front of a 20-to-35 year old collector and stated they all have equal value, Cap-1 would I bet would be selected first more than it wasn't.
I'm not sure I would go that far. Batman is, IMO, the most loved character of the three. Sure, Tec #27 doesn't have his origin and the cover is not on-par with Cap #1's, but the 1st app. of, arguably, the most loved comic book character in the world is likely to be the most desirable.
What I find interesting is your disclaimer, saying if "they all have equal value", which one would be picked? I find that a lot of collectors are highly influenced by "perception of hierarchy" and that includes myself. When you spend x-number of years as a collector and the collective group says Action #1 is book No. 1, Tec #27 is book No. 2 and Superman #1 is book No. 3 -- you tend to convince yourself that it all makes sense. After all, x-number of comic collectors can't be wrong in a subjective world, right?
With me, I've found myself having interest in certain books --not because of their content, and at times, not even because of any kind of personal connection-- but because of the "perception" of their desirability, that trophy-syndrome.
If you had no familiarity with the hobby, if you got into it today and the group told you that:
*Action #1 is No. 1 (birth of the superhero genre, first app. of Superman)
*Tec #27 is No. 2 (first app. of Batman, the most popular superhero going)
*Cap #1 is No. 3 (first app. of Marvel's most loved GA character)
*Superman #1 is No. 4 (first solo superhero title)
..you probably wouldn't blink. You may think, "Superman gets his love in Action #1 as the most valuable book of all, so it's no surprise that the most valuable Marvel comic is No. 3."
Scarcity wasn't enough to keep Marvel #1 ahead of Cap #1.
Scarcity wasn't enough to keep FF #1 ahead of AF #15.
There are a lot of sensible factors at play here -- but I'm not saying that alone makes my opinion the right one because it really is all subjective. What I'm saying is, it's hard to overlook the tremendous impact of the "this is how it's always been, and it's probably going to stay that way" type of mentality.
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The "Marvel #1 vs. Cap #1" comparison is very similar to "FF #1 vs. AF #15."
Marvel Comics #1 and Fantastic Four #1:
*Older
*Rarer
*Birth of a new universe
*Once considered "more valuable" by an older generation
Captain America Comics # and Amazing Fantasy #15:
*Newer
*Less rare
*1st appearances of loved, presently successful characters
*Better, more "classic" covers, illustrated by Kirby
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I'm not arguing the iconic importance of Superman in our mythology, I just wish he were drawn as well as Cap.
Simon and Kirby's work on Captain America is some of the finest art of the Golden Age. As much as I treasure the advent of the "super" hero and the heart found in Siegel and Shuster's Superman -- and as much as I love the unique, dark and gothic tone found in the art work Kane/Moldoff/Robinson's Batman -- S&K's Captain America is on another level entirely -- from the layouts to the "life" Kirby gave character-movement.
And from a front-cover standpoint, Cap #1 is not only the most historically-significant, but its combination of meaning, symbolism, action and heart puts it on a level that stretches far beyond our medium.
As much as I love my job (and I truly do), there is a point where you become a little jaded handling another ASM 1, etc. In this case, it was like being transported in time to 1975 or so and poring over Overstreet photos of rare books you never dreamed you might hold in hand one day. 
. It was an 18 month process involving the sale of many other golden age books (none with the panache of this book but some cool stuff for sure).
). Big time bonus points for Joker first appearance and some more bonus points for being the #1 issue of the first book devoted to Batman.
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Batman #1 Club
in Golden Age Comic Books
Posted
Where did Tec #31 rank on the top GA books list in the late 1990's, prior to CGC?