bronze johnny

Comic book historians and collectors know that Fawcett’s Captain Marvel was the most popular superhero on the Golden Age whose comics regularly outsold DC’s Superman, Batman, and Timely’s Captain America. DC’s copyright infringement lawsuit later put an end to Captain Marvel. The character would ironically become part of the DC Universe in 1973 and called Shazam because Marvel Comics had the rights to the name Captain Marvel. The question remains whether Marvel Comics/Disney should permit or even license the name Captain Marvel to DC Comics for the character known only as Shazam. Neal Adams fought for comic book artists and creators throughout his legendary career and he had an opinion on whether Billy Batson’s alter ego should be called Captain Marvel, which might hopefully inspire others to express their beliefs about this issue given it’s the character’s original title. Neal’s legend as one of the two greatest comic book artists ever (Kirby being the other) isn’t his only contribution to this American Art Form. Neal was outspoken on many issues and spoke his mind. He weighed in on the issue of the original Captain Marvel and defended the right to continue a Golden Age legacy:

I agree with Neal. Do you?

On 3/27/2023 at 6:07 PM, Ryan. said:

Pike was one of the greatest romance artists ever. Schomburg, Baker, Kamen, Feldstein, Doolin, and Lubbers laid the foundation for GGA/Romance but Pike took it to another level.

On 3/25/2023 at 2:38 PM, Cat-Man_America said:

There is going to be some element of deviancy from accepted norms in every collecting hobby, sport or activity; it's even worse in the political-arena (the third rail we must not discuss). In comics, especially GA comics, we're involved in collecting snapshots of attitudes from another era. Without judging people for what the buy or why they buy it, there is a fascination for war art that includes images that are socially unacceptable by today's standards. It doesn't make a collector deviant for having an interest in history; in fact, it's laudable and deserving of encouragement. George Santayana's quote about those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it is a poignant reminder that we should treasure those snapshots, to be aware of our past ...not to cancel it... and develop a historical perspective that our own flawed humanity need to be constantly vigilant of it. 

This is the long way of saying what we collect are choices that define interests and taste.  We determine the rationales, justifications and parameters (where to draw the line).

Personally, I don't care for stereotypical racial depictions that are used purely as comic relief.  There are a borderline exceptions, but they're rare. This precludes purchasing some comics that would be considered unacceptable given today's sensitivity standards as it impacts my comfort level as well. That said, my collecting interests don't judge other's collecting interests. The line I've chosen to draw is at war propaganda ...yellow peril stereotypes... because these accurately reflect perceived fears of threat and public attitudes.  I don't embrace the views of that era, but am fascinated by history and consider it critically important understand how society has evolved.

Misogyny is another animal altogether. I can find misogyny in the unrealistic stylized depictions of men & women in comics today, even though women are usually depicted as more self-reliant. That's definitely a plus IMO, but hasn't been without trade-offs. Overt over-sexualization of girls and women seems more pronounced in a lot of current comic art. But who am I to judge evolving fantasy content and collector's tastes? Undoubtably much of it would've been too extreme for the GA, but social norms have changed.  Violence and gore are more pronounced today as well, but again, who am I to judge fan tastes?  

I'm pretty much in agreement with Richard on this. We shouldn't be judging folks by what they collect. Yes, there are lines and we choose them and the topic is worthy of discussion, but it doesn't diminish anyone to collect the popular culture of another era. My long-winded, caffein influenced two centavos (can I say centavos without it looking like an ethnic slur?)

Agree and will add that what’s also interesting from a historical perspective is how what was published during the period before Wertham’s book, and the move to censor the comics for “negatively impacting” children is something we have seen (and may be currently seeing) in different mediums like television, film (see Precode v. Code), records (see Heavy Metal), and now there are concerns about TikTok (just mentioning here and taking no position). There are episodes throughout American History demonstrating reactions to mediums and in some cases, resulting in the industries self-censoring their content. Even Major League Baseball took on its own Commissioner to regulate the game after the 1919 World Series “Black-Sox” Scandal.

The comics, like other art forms, can give us insight but it’s also important that we are careful to do our best to accurately interpret these primary sources. Television wasn’t prevalent prior to the 1950s and film was provided a rating system once the movie industry self-regulated. The comics during that period, were an important entertainment medium that was accessible to most Americans and reflected many readers’ views of the times they were published. There are views acceptable then that are unacceptable and even offensive today. The standards back then were different from those we see today. Studying the history gives us some insight into how and why. Learning and knowing more about that period of time is one of the reasons why some of us collect the comics.

Santayana’s point about forgetting history is a difficult challenge to say the least because time has a way of wiping out the past. Collective memory passes with the passing of each generation. There is a certain amount of knowledge passed from generation to generation but like “telephone talk,” the information and stories change over time. There are many of us who lived during a time when there were veterans of WW1 (Billy Parker may have known Spanish-American War Vets?) still alive who shared their personal experiences of the “Great War.” The same holds for the last of the “Greatest Generation.” The 20th Century and its historical lessons grow more distant as we venture further into the 21st Century. Historical memories are slowly disappearing. People who impacted 20th Century history have died or are close to it. What’s left for us now and posterity, is the historical record, and that can only give us so much insight into the past. The warning Santayana  gives for future generations, is that history or what remains of it in the historical record (includes literature, film, art, sport, etc.), be studied and accurately interpreted. This means that future generations must be careful not to see the past entirely through the “filters” of their time. It’s a difficult challenge given that we inject our subjective insight when working on objective projects. The same can be said about seeing through the lens of our “collective generational views.” Still, we can achieve a substantial degree of objectivity when also discussing and debating the issues that arise with others who have a level of understanding and passion for knowing what actually happened and why. It’s not always easy to figure out and will in many cases, require time and work - more than a visit to Wikipedia to survey the subject. The period of time’s composite of moral, cultural, class, racial, ethical, sociological, political, and economic forces that result in history must also be taken into account when looking at and providing interpretation to historical primary documents. The comics were primarily entertainment with exception to the Classic Comics/Illustrated comics that my dad and his friends relied on to read instead of the actual literary works and before Monarch and Cliff Notes. This is important because the interpretation of these cultural historical items must be carefully made, which also means that personal judgements based on current views should not be the “filter” through which to see the past. It’s of course fine to say that one personally disagrees with how things were back when. We have personal opinions and that’s what makes us who we are so long as those opinions don’t lead us to misinterpret our readings and studies of the historical record.  

This is the best way to avoid Santayana’s point.

It’s also the best way to avoid Orwell’s warning that those who control the past, also control the future.

-John

On 3/24/2023 at 6:32 PM, adamstrange said:

One of the nicest 9.4s in my collection.

Incredible!

Gorgeous!

I’d love to see this thread renamed “Baker Street” given Matt’s tremendous work in other genres! 

More than 17k when you add 15% buyer’s premium:
 

https://www.comicconnect.com/item/948751?tzf=1

On 3/18/2023 at 3:12 PM, lou_fine said:

Without a doubt, this would bump up the profile of the comic book collecting hobby up to another level with Elvis's name attached to the collection. 

Not too sure if they would be in that fantastic of a grade condition though as I get the feeling that Elvis probably read the heck out of them while laying in his bed.  

I doubt any books would be sold. They would likely be placed on exhibit at Graceland. After all, the comics give us insight into the King’s childhood. 

On 3/18/2023 at 3:02 PM, lou_fine said:

Not too sure, but he did have a copy of CMA 2 which was slabbed as a Slight (C-1) Restored CGC 7.5 graded copy with a small amount of glue on the spine and tear seal to cover that sold for $2,161 in the big Jon Berk Auction back in 2017.  

Interesting to note that Tricarichi had graded the book as a NM/M copy, so not sure if the book had suffered some damage in the interim or if Joe was really that inconsistent of a grader.  From some of the grade comparisons in the Larson List for the Larson books that have been slabbed to date, all I can say is that Tricarichi is certainly no Jim Payette when it comes to tight grading as most of the CGC grades for the Allentown books have actually come in higher than what Payette had them listed at in his Master Allentown List, with very very few that have come in lower.    

As for CMA 1, The Larson List does indicate a F/NM copy in there with the bracketed notation of a tiny piece out from the spine and lite fold length of front cover.  Now, not sure if this was one of the very small handful of books that Jon supposedly decided to keep for himself after auctioning off his collection back in 2017.  If so, surprised that he did not keep the Church copy of Mystery Men 3 since that was always one of his very favorite books.  Then again, I hear he apparently did have two copies of that book and probably kept the undercopy for himself and let the Church go along with the rest of the Church Mystery Men run.  So, it's quite possible Jon might indeed have the Larson CMA 1 still with him since he did have the CMA 2, but who really knows except for Jon himself and possibly a few others in the know.    

Maybe @adamstrange knows?

On 3/18/2023 at 11:02 AM, Straw-Man said:

You’re getting closer to the 100 pagers…

Did Berk have a copy in his collection?

On 2/15/2023 at 6:25 PM, Drokkit said:

Again, it's hard to say yet. There are only three graded copies listed so far but plenty of ungraded ones out there, most in VG condition at best. Dredd only appeared as an advert in prog 1 (below) and prices for ungraded copies are lower than prog 2. Prog 1 came with a plastic 'space spinner' which, I understand, can not be encapsulated with the comic like prog 2's biotronic stickers. The spinner came taped to the front of the comic and taking it off to chuck around the garden usually caused damage in the form of ink removal, tape reside or a tear; I can only recall ever seeing one copy for sale that seemed to be unmarked. Sadly, I didn't buy it 

Prog 1 is a major key for any Judge Dredd collector for being the first issue of the longest, continuous, and still published Bronze Age title. It’s also the “Gobbledygook 1” for Dredd fans for Dredd’s panel that you posted. Try finding a nice copy of Prog 1 with the “Space Spinner.” Classic!

On 3/14/2023 at 1:22 PM, dover said:

Just for fun

 

 

 

 

This is great! I wish we could put it in a place where we can easily refer to. Wonder if @CGCMike can put us somewhere for all of us “Adams Family Members?” Thanks Dover!

Circling back on this year’s War Report and the fantastic work done by the guys behind it! Great to see All American Men of War 67 place above Our Fighting Forces 45 this year. No doubt the first appearance of Gunner and Sarge place higher than they’re kicking off the classic run in Our Fighting Forces 45. All American Men of War 67’s “Grand” cover is also a classic. This now brings me to another classic for the All-American Men of War run, which is Johnny Cloud’s first appearance. As we all know, All American Men of War 82 is the first appearance of DC’s and the Silver Age’s first Native-American War Hero that also has a great Novick cover. Let’s not forget that Novick did great stuff back then. The contributions made by Native Americans for America during WW2 cannot be underscored. Johnny Cloud is a hero in comic books that reminds comic book readers of this. The “Chief” continues to play a key role throughout the DC’s Silver Age Big 5 and later becomes part of the Losers with G.I. Combat 138 that’s followed by the classic run beginning with Our Fighting Forces 123. The first appearance of the Losers is a very, very late SA war key (1969) that has been overlooked and the role of a Native-American war hero as part of the team is historic for not only DC Comics, but the entire medium. G.I. Combat 138 is also significant because it leads to one of the first Bronze Age war key books and it’s official that the Losers will become a Bronze Age team war book. Like Marie, the “Navajo Ace” reminds us of the many different people who contributed so much to the war effort. I’m a huge fan of the Rock and recognize the importance of many of the earlier books that followed OAAW 83, but the first appearance of a character like Johnny Cloud requires a higher place in the War Report’s top 50 war books. More to come…

On 3/11/2023 at 10:42 AM, 1950's war comics said:

i like how Heath always drew soldiers with dented helmets 

“Dent-Heads”

On 3/10/2023 at 9:57 PM, Straw-Man said:

Awesome books! You give me new meaning to COD or “Collection On Demand.”

J. Scott Campbell, Adam Hughes, Michael Turner, Mark Schultz and Dave Stevens would place above the good girl artists of the 1940s and 1950s (Lubbers, Baker, Doolin, Kamen, Schomburg, etc.). They would even give the romance artists of the Silver and early Bronze Ages (Pike, Estrada, Cardy, Jones, etc.) a run for their money.

I asked the OP but will now raise it with others: how much do cover artists today rely on computer graphics to enhance their art?

On 2/25/2023 at 5:59 PM, Krydel4 said:

What are your current favorite Cover Artists that you think people will be debating and collecting (just for the covers) like the GA Artists that are popular and have remained so 70 years after the fact? 

I think Jock will be one as he already has an iconic Cover in Detective Comics 880. Another two I think will be J.Scott Campbell and Adam Hughes as they have that GGA feel in the vein of Matt Baker.

Thoughts?

Curious as to how much do cover artists today rely on computer graphics to enhance their art?

On 2/24/2023 at 2:15 PM, Straw-Man said:

whoa, nelly!

Trade him a furnace for the book?

On 2/23/2023 at 4:15 PM, The lips said:

FF 48- The look on the faces is mesmerising. 
 

SS4 - I could look at all day. 
 

ASM 50 - Simply iconic. 
 

ASM 33 - Beautiful, yet even more so inside 

 

All great but you can only pick one for the purpose of this thread and this exercise can be quite challenging. So which is it?

On 2/18/2023 at 12:42 AM, mtlevy1 said:

Oh - here is mine, I mean it has Venus on it!

Great cover! Now give us your favorite Silver Age cover

On 2/18/2023 at 7:26 AM, comicjack said:

Having been a big fan of Anderson way back i always loved this cover.I would say it was a toss between Showcase 55 and this one won the day 

Very difficult choice!