Tony S

As for value of the comic - GPA - which captures actual sales of CGC graded books (not a price guide, actual sales) suggests 10K is high for any of the two books we have discussed. The advice I normally give on books like this is be patient and wait for a no reserve auction. Because asking prices on eBay are typically high - sometimes very high. Your.....problem.... will be you are looking for a signed copy. It might be a while before a signed copy turns up in auction. Unsigned copies in 4.5 and 5.0 are on mycomicshop right now for just under $5,000. At auction, signed copies do not usually bring 2x the price of unsigned. But asking prices are that high because there are not many copies for sale at any given moment.

Your original link was to a CGC 4.5 signed by Stan that was unrestored. And the price was $10,200. I - and probably most - collectors would rather have an unrestored 4.5 vs a restored 6.0 if both were the same price. The unrestored copy is also always going to be easier to sell. Many - perhaps most - collectors avoid restored books. It's impossible to tell from the picture how much color touch there is on the book. I will mention I've seen restored books with a "small" amount of color touch according to CGC that IMHO looked like more than what I would call small. And yes - the yellow label CGC label means a CGC employee or signature facilitator witnessed Stan Lee sign the book. CGC does not have a "verification" service. Only a witnessed service. Stan Lee's signature could vary quite a bit. I would have no concerns that the signature was legit.

I was going to mention that the tiny chip being discussed was clearly a printing defect. It is the way the book was right out of the printers. CGC has always been more lenient on printing defects than defects that happen as a result of handling and storage. Production chip and bindery tears are fairly common on vintage books and many a book with such graded 9.6. These defects on some issues are particularly common. It is hard for instance to find ASM 361's that do not have chips or tears along the bottom of the book. So this is not a new thing as far as grading goes. About eight months ago someone showed me a CGC graded book they had just got back (sent in under my account) where the outer holder was not sealed. Encapsulation just made a mistake. Book was encapsulated in the inner holder but the outer holder was put together but not welded (sonic?) shut. First one I have ever seen and I have not seen once since - until probably now. I offered we could send it back in to be fixed, but it was such a novelty the owner wanted to keep it as is.

You have linked to the wrong book - or you have written down the wrong serial number. The book you link to is a signed Avengers 1, CGC graded 4.5 graded in 2018. The serial number you list is a signed Avengers 1, CGC graded 6.0 restored with a small amount of amateur color touch on the cover, graded 6.0 in 2013. So I will answer your questions generically "Apparent SA" is a restored book. Apparent means it looks like xxx grade. SA means the restoration is slight and is amateur in quality. Restoration means the book has been altered from it's original state - in this case adding color to the cover. "SS" is Signature Series. CGC only gives a yellow, signature series label to books that a CGC employee or authorized signature facilitator witnessed - in person - the book being signed. I would mention - just in case you are unaware - that restored books sell for less money than the same book in the same grade with no restoration. Sometimes a lot less, sometimes just some less.

@KingOfRulers Well - actually I much prefer Taylor Swifts pop stuff over her country. 1989 was an awesome album and both Wildest Dreams and Blank Space are my fav songs by her. But some like country.... and even Swifts country was rather country pop. So it's all good!

Congrats, Chatty Cathy

Excel for the slabbed books - which is also - for the most part - the books worth more $$. These are also the only books listed with value (GPA) Nothing for the rest. It's kinda fun to go through the boxes from time to time and go "ohhh. I forgot I had that

I have also seen books with notebook holes get a green label grade. I think you should probably expect a green label qualified grade if the book is otherwise 7.0 or higher - and a 2-3 grade if otherwise a lower grade. Unless of course the book is a low grade copy to begin with. .

Yes, it could indeed be as you say. If it is a bindery tear then that would also explain the 9.6. Over the years I've seen lots of 9.6's with bindery tears and this book is particularly prone to them. It is challenging to find copies without any bindery tears. So historically books with bindery tears can get 9.6 and historically if a defect is very common on a particular book CGC grades that defect more leniently.

Thanks Beyonder As others have noted this isn't a tear. Looks like a crease/impact crunch. So I was not sure what book the OP was discussing in reference to their specific question about waviness being worse than a tear. I probably wasn't reading everything close enough and appreciate you making it clear. As for is this book a 9.6? I have come to dislike discussing such. Several years ago I would have said "maybe if the rest of the book is perfect". By the grading standards I've seen since CGC has hired a bunch of new graders and cranked up output (so the past 18 months) I would have been guesstimated the grade lower than 9.6. 9.2/9.4 maybe. The reason I now dislike discussing "what should the grade be" is the issue of consistency. IMHO we are not seeing consistency. And consistency is the MOST IMPORTANT thing to me as far as sending in books. I don't want to waste my time arguing with a grading company what a 9.6 should look like. But the hobby NEEDS for the standard for 9.6 to be the same from year to year and decade to decade. Because without that consistency, the bedrock reason for third party grading and encapsulation - that "the grade is the grade" - gets undermined.

As to the question the OP has asked more than once - if waviness is a bigger defect than a tear - the answer is "we don't know"..... How big is the tear? Is it just a bindery tear at the bottom or top of the spine on a thick book inclined to bindery tears? How much waviness? A bit or a lot. Cover or the entire book? It's all a matter of degree. There is no answer to the question asked - except get the book graded and see. I would mention the Lobo has more than just waviness. The back cover lower spine looks to have bends that pressing didn't fix.

Grading notes are not all that helpful. What you can see is helpful. Can you see the crease? Can you see the spine stress lines? Do those break color or if in white areas does it appear the paper is damaged? Are there OTHER defects visible that grading notes don't mention (this is common) that pressing cannot fix? If the answer is no to all then maybe a press will help. If the answer is yes don't waste your time and money.

I have had a few submissions take a long time getting logged into my "dashboard" and all were submissions that had LONG turnaround times (say regular economy or magazines) IF when you enter the shipping tracking number(s) on the page to check and see if CGC has scanned in the box(es) you can be a lot more relaxed about it. If it shows the boxes have received then at least you know CGC has received the packages, just not opened them. If this is the situation then be specific when you call customer service and say "your in house tracking shows the packages delivered but not yet opened and entered into the workflow management system. Can you expedite this?" IF your carrier shows the packages delivered but CGC doesn't show the packages received that's a more serious problem and urgent problem You probably should have already told CGC to find the packages or start an insurance claim. The carrier you used is NOT going to want to pay any insurance claim for a package they show delivered and signed for. Carriers also have deadlines for insurance claims and two months might be too long for some carriers. So it's on CGC to pay any insurance claim. As for missing books in a shipment. I've only had it happen ONCE that a book went REALLY missing in a shipment. More times that I want to admit to that I have made a mistake on the submission form and either sent a book not listed or left off a book that was listed. Receiving has always been great about contacting me making me aware of the mistake and that they have corrected it. The ONE time that a book actually went missing (it was in the box and on the submission form but CGC said it was missing) was kinda weird. First receiving didn't email as they always had done and say "Star Wars 3" was missing. When I noticed it missing on my dashboard I called customer service who was no help. They said receiving didn't always send such emails and the book must have been left out. It was a client's book and I told him about it and bought him an already graded replacement copy. Rest of the books were graded and shipped as normal under whatever the TAT's were then. About two months later the "lost" Star Wars 3 popped up on my dashboard as a single book. Graded and shipped a week later. So apparently someone at CGC found the book somewhere and sent it on through. So the book wasn't left out by me nor lost by CGC. Just misplaced. BTW, the replacement copy I purchased was graded higher than his original, but he elected to get his own book back. Sentimental attachment.

95% people are unhappy with the grades they receive on their first few submissions. I remember my first submission - 30 books - like it was yesterday. I too was crushed to see all these books I thought were NM (9.4) or better graded anywhere from 8.5 to 9.6. I had bought and sold collectible comic books for twenty years at that point. I was sure I knew how to grade. Steve Borock talked to me on the phone and was very patient. But then and for another couple of submissions I just could not tell the difference between different grades of 8.5 and above. So we all feel your pain The short version is that 8.0 and above (maybe 7.5 and above) are high grade books. I could recognize "high grade" but I was not tuned into the tiny defects that separate high grade from Near mint and better. In addition, buying books already bagged and boarded (I assume from a comic book store) when they were new is no assurance of 9.4 or better grades. They were not all perfect when printed and shipping and handling between printers and you degraded them further. As for not being able to see the defects that are listed. This is just one of the realities of encapsulated books. The graders looked at the books in hand under excellent lighting. You are now looking at the book through two layers of plastic and one of those layers - the outer holder - is quite thick. As a result, small non color breaking defects can be difficult to near impossible to see while encapsulated. If you remove the books from the slab (look on YouTube for how to do it safely) you should be able to see the defects identified. The graders can be really, really strict, but they are not making things up. So if you want to continue getting books graded and encapsulated hit reset as someone else suggested and start thinking "I have a lot to learn" rather than CGC is doing it all wrong.

There are lots of potential answers to the "I am certain these were perfect and should have been 9.8". Sorry - not really a quote, but I believe that captures the sentiment. Others have already mentioned various possibilities. And any of those might be the case. But no one has yet mentioned another possibility. I'd say it's a fact - and possibly why the books got less than 9.8. .......CGC is really, really strict on 9.8 moderns right now. Have been all year but even more so the last six months. I've been submitting books since a year after they opened. I've been submitting thousands a year for a decade. I maintain it to be a fact that they are stricter on modern's at the better than NM (9.4) grades than in past. I don't want to bother arguing what various grades should look like and/or what defects allowed. That's arbitrary. But set a standard and stick to it. What I want - more than anything else - from a grading company is consistency. 9.8's from five years ago need to be the standard for 9.8's today. It's good for customers, good for the grading company and essential to the well being of the hobby. At least the third party graded, professionally encapsulated part of the hobby. Because if grading is inconsistent, value of the graded books being inconsistent won't be far behind.

I don't believe the "Copper Age" was a widely accepted thing until eBay made it part of their listings. Ages are not typically recognized until they are well into the era or even beyond. I started collecting comic books around 1966 and no one knew the "Silver Age" was over in 1970 until maybe the early 1980's. Even the Overstreet Price Guide in the 1970's was more likely to speak of the First and Second heroic ages, not Gold/Silver ages

Can you imagine the TAT for appeals of CGC grades? "We have received your appeal of grading submission xxxxxxx. Your appeal has been scheduled for August 31, 2035" The reason neither CGC nor Voldy release grades until the books are shipped is so they don't have hundreds of phone calls every day demanding/pleading that someone look again as those grades are way too low

Good news. There are not many tiers that need visibility on the dashboard that long (Economy tiers for comics and magazines). But it is a good thing that they now stay visible.

Graders know nothing about the particulars of a submission. They are given books to grade. They don't know who sent them in. They don't know if they were previously graded. This is so there is no bias. This must be true, or they would never note pressing related defects on books that came through CCS. Or give higher grades to books previously graded by PGX. They just grade the book in front of them. Receiving of course would see who shipped the books. Managers and customer service types can look up and see what was in a submission. But graders have no such information. Graders would - as others have noted - be aware of defects that were likely caused by pressing. But even then they only describe the defect. Graders notes never say "louse pressing job caused xxx defect".

Winner!

The way it generally works - as far as status on the dashboard - is that there is no movement or change on the dashboard until literally the last couple of weeks. They they go from no movement to done in just a week or two. This no doubt accurately reflects how books are really handled. It doesn't take a year to press (I'm guessing you are having your books pressed) or grade books. Rather books SIT IN THE VAULT with no movement at all - no one touches or looks at them - until all the books received before yours are done. So when you see no movement, no status change - it simply means the books are sitting and waiting their turn. Waiting sucks. We all have been there and don't like it. In the future, you have to decide if you would rather wait and have more $$ in your pocket or pay more $$ and get your books back sooner.

That has already happened. The GPA average for the book in 9.8 was $1190 for 2021. The 90 day average stands at $710.

The will be receiving about 500 CGC 9.8's from hopeful sellers in the next several weeks....

You do have to be a member to submit books. But at shows CGC attends and for CGC in house signature events a FREE membership is good enough. Since you are posting here you have a membership. So log in and create your submission online for NYCC

PSA made headlines when they purchased Genamint to acquire their card grading AI software last year. PSA says they intend to use Genamint AI to assist with card grading. Humans will still grade the card, but the AI software will check for trimming and other restoration. A couple of small card grading start ups using exclusively using AI to grade have entered the market - but are not being well received. AGS and Card-Boss are scan and upload services that then give you a grade. A few articles are out there where graded cards were scanned and the grades were not close. And of course you are not sending your cards in so there is no encapsulation.