Tony S

Funny no one has mentioned grading notes. They exist and they are there for all to see on CBCS books. The TOS 49 is just a loosely graded book. It happens. The TOS 49 is also a book graded fairly early on by CBCS. Unlike CGC, CBCS does not list the date a book was graded. But I can tell by the serial number that the TOS 49 was graded the first 15-16 months CBCS was open. I forget exactly when, but CBCS had been open about 16-18 months and had to revamp their web site. For reasons never explained the original serial number sequencing could not be carried over to the new website. The original serial numbers were all numbers. After the website revamp serial numbers contain a few letters. BTW, when looking up grading notes on those "old" serial numbers you have to add "00-" in front of the serial number listed on the label. I believe the Thor has a hard to spot defect noted in the grading notes and 7.0 is probably pretty close to what CGC would give it. Enlarge the picture and look at the area under Warlocks elbow. Then compare that to the note "lot (left) front cover color loss spotting". CBCS called it "color loss spotting". Looks like pretty good size fingerprints and smudges to me. CGC is and always has been pretty hard on fingerprints, so the OP might be disappointed with the grade if resubmitted to CGC. Interesting aside, the TOS 49 you cannot look up grading notes. There was discussion that a few serial numbers/sequences did not carry over to the new website. This must be one of those that did not carry over. So my vote to the OP is leave it them both alone. CGC is all but certain to grade the TOS 49 lower and likely to grade the Thor 165 near the same.

Except that starting at 10 and points knocked off is not how grading works. It is subjective and about appearance and appeal. Defects don't so much knock off a certain number of points, instead it works more along the line of "what is the best grade you can get with a given defect". A color breaking subscription crease is at best a 6 and usually 4.5-5.0. It doesn't matter if there is a few spine ticks or some bends. Those defects basically come along for the ride and cost nothing grade wise. If you think about it, if you deducted points for every defect then books with lots of creases, small tears and stains would quickly get into negative numbers. I spoke with Steve Borock about this back in 2014 when Voldy was being started up. I too assumed that graders had a grading card that specified how much off for each type and degree of defects. That's not how it is done.

I considered the oral notes before I posted. Speech to text isn't perfect, it has to be reviewed for accuracy. That takes time. Considering how brief grading notes typically are, reviewing speech to text for accuracy probably saves no time at all versus just typing them in. Again - since I see no value in 95% of the grading notes and lots of value in faster TAT, I'm fine with 95% of the notes not be noted. What CGC needs to address IMHO is consistency of grades. Maybe they could go buy some slabbed comics they graded 10 yeas ago and see if indeed they have gotten a lot stricter on NM grades. One could lawyer to death what any given grade should look like and defects allowed. I actually don't care about that part. What matters more than anything is consistency. Last year's/last decade's 9.8 should be today's 9.8 (or insert any grade you want) It doesn't matter where the goal posts are. I just don't want the goal posts to move. Maybe more labeling errors are occurring. Or maybe they are grading 5x the number of books than they used to so we see 5x more labeling/encapsulation errors. Because we've always had errors in labeling and encapsulation. Occasionally - over the years - I bought such because I find the error amusing (Batman comic labeled as Superman)

If you want USPS shipping from CGC it's easy enough to get. Go rent a PO Box and use that as your return address. Then your submissions ship back to you via USPS Registered Mail and the price - so far in my experience - is less than it used to be.

You know, CGC probably needs a position like that

Thank you for the kind words. Just a few thoughts in response. Graders notes take time. A grader can spend a minute entering notes or a grader can spend a minute on the next book. Customers hated long turn around times. Fewer graders notes probably helped with the TAT's. I personally see little value in graders notes and lots of value in faster TAT's. so there's where I live. . Graders notes at the NM and higher grades can negatively affect value when selling graded books. Take a 9.6 with graders notes that mention 2-3 very minor flaws and compare it to a "clean" 9.6 with no graders notes. A good number of buyers will assume the 9.6 with no grading notes mentioning flaws must be a nicer 9.6 than the one that does mention flaws.

The blue (that is higher energy/higher frequency) light is largely window dressing. The process involves bleaching agents as well - usually hydrogen peroxide. It is the bleach that is doing the heavy lifting as far as whitening and making stains lighter. The person....call it taking credit and certainly popularizing this process says they got the inspiration from dentists using blue light for whitening teeth. But the dentists are also using hydrogen peroxide in a paste. And there have been recent studies on the dental side of things saying the blue light wasn't adding anything to the process. The paste with the bleaching agent used alone worked just as well. There are some potential problems here with this growing in popularity process: 1) If CGC detects bleaching it will get a conserved label as "cover cleaned". Lots of claims that CGC didn't detect it. But it's pushing the envelope and it's all good until it's not. 2) This nearly always being done without removing the cover. So they don't have a good way of washing out the bleaching agent. Which means the bleaching may continue on longer than desired. 3) Most people doing this are not offering it as a retail service. More of a "for themselves and friends" and "at your own risk". The few I've seen advertising it as a paid service they provide have disclaimers stating that whitening/stain removal could lead to fading, color lift , creasing and other bad stuff.

Count me among the group that believes grading notes are largely useless. I've been sending in books to CGC since the beginning - and over the years have come to the opinion people see them as FAR more useful than they really are. Perhaps the one thing collectors/CGC customers need to understand is this: The grading notes are not nor ever have been an exhaustive list of every single defect. Instead they represent simply what the graders took the time to write down. I've seen countless examples of books that the reason it graded 8.0 is small color breaking corner crease - and that's not even in the notes. Instead the notes are "light spine stresses" or "light bends to cover". Which have practically become the cut and paste of "it's not NM and and I have to give a reason why so here you go." The only grading notes that are useful are the ones that mention defects you can no longer see as a result of the book being encapsulated. That way you don't break a book out to regrade only to discover a light stain on the front cover only visible from the inside of the cover. The G.I. Joe is most likely a mistake. It is so far off that the grade was probably intended for a different copy and it just got the wrong label. It's why CGC wants the book back to regrade. The Strange Tales more likely a reflection of really inconsistent grading right now. For TAT's to have improved like they have on Moderns and Economy if fast tracked, either there a LOT of new graders or people are being pushed to grade much faster. Maybe both. What is...ironic.... to me is that IMHO CGC is way, way strict on NM and better grades. I have 9.4's from a decade ago that don't look as nice - to me anyway - as 8.5's and 9.0's I have been seeing the last six months. You are a new grader. You want a reputation of being too loose or too strict? So the occasional book that comes through noticeably over graded stands out. Agreeing to disagree is cool with me as well

Unrelated - but maybe somewhat related. When I saw submission tracking was down I assumed it was weather related and no techs at the facility to work on the problem. Online submissions still working and that's handy. CGC on their homepage has updates about the building being closed and such. But I shipped about 60 books out yesterday without giving the weather and CGC closing the building any thought. I rather wish I'd waited a few days so the package is not just sitting somewhere in Florida waiting for weather to allow it to movie to the next place. . Along with computer glitches, USPS appears to have updated their online tracking - it looks different. And for a time - about 24 hours - tracking on the USPS website had the message of "Not Trackable. Delivery status information is not available for your item via this website." This morning the package showed up in tracking and the website has a new look. There was nearly a day though where I thought I'd have to go back to the post office and ask if they had some tracking information on the package.

I doubt just pressing does anything to improve the grade. If you enlarge you can see the creases and there just wasn't as much done to them as could be to make them disappear. In a few places the creases still break color. And then you have the small chips out of the back cover. To have a shot a better grade, you will probably need to pay for some additional (and better quality) restoration. Replace the chips out of the back cover and do a better job with color touch of the creases on the front cover.

The short answer is substantial spine roll can be corrected. Probably needs to be corrected if you were thinking about grading it because it might be to large (wide) to fit in a comic book slab as is. The longer answer is it needs evaluation for if safe to press. Hard to accurately judge paper quality by pictures. But the paper on the spine looks pretty tan and week, small tears and a piece out are visible. Maybe a spine split at the bottom of the cover? And the the book is manufactured with one staple. So just from the pictures, I believe there is some risk of spine splits or staple pulling loose from the cover. And you only have one staple holding the cover on. So the possibility exits of having a detached cover after pressing. Removing spine roll makes a big visual difference. So if it suffered no damage in getting pressed you would have a much more attractive copy.

The color touch was no doubt "undisclosed" because the seller is no better at spotting color touch than you (the OP) are. If the sale of the book has been in the last three months and you paid with a credit/debit card or in the last six months and you paid with PayPal, then open a "item not as described" claim. If the sale was longer ago than that, there isn't anything you can do. Consider it the cost of education. Try to learn how to spot color touch and send books in for grading sooner & pay for fast enough service that if there is restoration you have time to return the book. Some here might object to what I have said. I am not saying how things ideally should be. We don't live in an ideal world - I am saying how they are in the real world. The OP asked what they could do. Above is a factual response on what they can (or cannot) do.

Some of the techniques discussed here remind me of my days as a manager in a large office. You know why managers aren't fond of "casual Fridays"? Because someone(s) always have to push the limit and come to work dressed like they just mowed the lawn then washed the cars.

Truth is I pay almost no attention to the right sidebar. Occasionally something for sale catches my eye and gets me to click, but that is it. So this kinda reminds me of Fred Hembeck's story about Brother Voodoo. No one at Marvel cared about the character so no one cared what he did with the character. Hembeck's satire actually lead to the character gaining fans. So do whatever you want, because almost anything you do is probably some sort of improvement if gets a few more people to look.

I don't see anything that says "staples replaced". And it's worth noting that the magnification of the image appears to be 4x-5x range, so ordinary wear looks like something "wrong".

I will chime in and say tape it. There are instances where tape makes sense and this is one such example. if you sent it in to be graded as is, there is no guarantee CGC will keep track of the pieces. No guarantee that when it's encapsulated - even if all the pieces are there - that they will end up neatly arranged to look the best. Even if slabbed that way (neatly) it probably doesn't STAY that way during shipping. CGC will give it the same grade regardless, so might as well hold it together. Archival tape vs regular is just something not 100% clear. Based on published guidance, it would appear archival tape risks a conserved label. But the books I've seen with (only) archival tape got blue. The problem I believe is archival tape can look similar to mending paper and archival glue repair. Which is conservation. So my experience suggests the graders can tell the difference and are giving blue label regardless of the type of tape used. For obvious reasons, archival tape is a better tape for paper.

Yes, modern would work just fine. If it gets a 9.8 CGC will likely bump you to a higher tier. But if that happens be happy!

No, sun shadows do not clean off. This is tanning, not dirt. The paper is darker. All the way through. I have seen dust shadows that were truly just dust or soot. Those often clean off. Most of the time you will know the difference by looking at the inside of cover. You see the discoloration on the inside, it's not gong to clean of with dry cleaning methods. It's through the paper and it would take solvents to wash out.

Nice to know they listen.....

I don't mean to be snarky - this is a serious question. Is there any point to MEMBERS running polls to change forum rules? If one of the Admins was running this poll I would assume the results could lead to change. But just members?

People have already mentioned Kenny Sanderson and Hero Restoration. Kenny worked with Matt Nelson back when Matt was independent as Classics Inc. In the past I have personally used Classics Inc and Hero Restoration. Happy with both. Other respected Restoration places The Restoration lab Eclipse Paper Conservation

I'm more a Diet Coke in the morning guy Robert's done a great job with this show. Hat's off!

Yes, I believe 0.5

Given I have never run across a "water tideline" that CGC said was common and known issue on a particular book (and so a production issue?) I think Lightning55's description is accurate. But I would mention in the cleaning of books "tidelines" usually refers to the use of water or other solvents to spot clean a stain. A tideline in this case is where the solvent has washed away the dirt in an area and you can have a dirty ring or outline where the paper is very clean where solvent cleaning took place but then left a line where the solvent stopped cleaning. So sort of a reverse stain. The solution to these tidelines is being really good at feathering out the area cleaned and not leaving one - or where that just isn't possible removing and washing the entire cover. And it should be mentioned that solvent cleaning does risk a conserved label if CGC detects it and a note of restoration on the label at CBCS. I know there are those claiming to get away with it on grading company submissions (still get blue labels) but the grading companies have not said it's OK and accepted as they have with pressing and dry cleaning. For a production issue like described whether or not a press fixes it really will depend on if there is any discoloration or stain. A regular press won't fix that part. If the only flaw is a bit of waviness to the edge, a press should fix it.

CCS (CGC's in house pressing/restoration removal/restoration service) does restoration removal. I do not know if they remove tape. I kinda doubt it, but it would not hurt to call and ask. Removing tape is - with most taped books - best left to those that do restoration work, not just clean and press. The reason why is obvious - it's easy to damage the. Sometimes you run across books where the adhesive to the tape as dried off and it's not hard nor going to cause damage. But most of the time to remove tape is going to require use of solvents and plenty of experience dong so. I would also mention it seems unlikely only removing tape from the outside of the cover by itself improves the grade much, since it still has tape inside. Books with tape can be safely cleaned and pressed. Your book might improve some grade wise with only a clean and press.